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i have to admit i'm confused. First, by a self-admitted confession on behalf of the devs of "addressing" sexism issues in the original BG and practically promoting their agenda, then by the huge backlash on behalf of a seemingly minor character coupled with some other dialogue remarks ...
I am also worried of games being sanitized in the name of various politics, esp. when talking about cult games like BG. I don't care about this particular character because i don't have to play it if i chose so, but if i buy the expansion do i send a signal to the devs that i approve of their tactics ? I'm all for freedom of expression in games, but please don't coopt a classical franchise , make you own game and let it live or die on its own merits.
idk. Maybe i'll just watch a let's play, but for now i just hate everybody for turning something i was happy about into a ideological fight.
It's not political. It's hatred. Some people hate the idea of a person being different so they go on the interwebs and cause a ruckus. Nothing but rabble rousers I tell ya.
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Nergal01: Well, I was wondering if anyone around here is even playing the game and might be able to comment on the story or quests. >_> Haven't seen any reviews anywhere since it got released. LPers seem to like it ok, though.
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Hickory: I have finished SoD, and I can say that compared to the previous EE versions, it is a vastly superior product, though the writing leaves a lot to be desired in places. There are two specific issues in the game (not this current political bullshit) that made me angry (that's not an easy thing to do), but I will not say what they are because of major spoilers. Only two games have ever had this (anger) effect on me, Mass Effect 3 and Siege of Dragonspear.
Thanks for your impressions. It's really disappointing to see the discussion around this game already tainted by the internet outrage machine about things that barely have anything to do with the game itself, but I guess that's what I should've expected. It's 2016 and video games are serious business.

The Mass Effect 3 comment makes me more interested, actually. It's been a long time since a game has left me as genuinely underwhelmed and disappointed as ME3's ending (The rest of that game is fine, if not as good as Mass Effect 1 or 2). It would take some serious fan-fiction retcon shit for Siege of Dragonspear to reach that level.
Post edited April 05, 2016 by ArbitraryWater
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vsommers12: It's not political. It's hatred. Some people hate the idea of a person being different so they go on the interwebs and cause a ruckus. Nothing but rabble rousers I tell ya.
A spot on description of Beamdog's and Amber Scott's current behaviour on the Internet. Kudos.

It's sickening to watch them trying to turn everything round and blame everything but themselves for their lack of competence, skill and lack of sanity. There's a campaign run by them and people who don't even know what Baldur's Gate is to troll rating sites.
The issue is not that there objectively are some controversional themes and topics, they're not the problem themselves! There're tons of games with such themes implemented in. There's gay flirting and marriage in original Fallouts, there are lesbians in Wasteland 2, there's a God damned gay Crassius Curio who wants to fuck every man around in Morrowind (and more, but most of this stuff is not obligatory, including incest and zoophila WHAT). In fact CC is one of the most recognizable characters in the video game history, right after Lifts Her Tail (which is a rape story). But for some reason nobody erupted with outrage on the very same themes that are present in Siege of Dragonspear. For fuck's sake, there were gender change belts in D&D since, like - forever, right!

Beamdog's scandal is caused by one fundamental difference between SoD and other games who implement exactly same topics and themes. It's the goal of the developers. Previous games were done for the sake of making a good video game and were written with this in mind. You can find a full cross section of social commentary in games like Morrowind or Fallouts (and a truck load of other titles I've probably never heard of) where certain themes can be represented in really controversional forms. But they were never the essence of any game. Nobody gave 0/10 rating to Wasteland 2 for the lesbian couple bit.
With Siege of Dragonspear we have the opposite. The game itself is really just a placeholder done in a lazy way, which wasn't even basically tested before releasing it. It's bug riddled, there are basic problems with importing charactrs, equipment issues, spells can crash the game, the UI is just plain worse than the previous one, the very game's structure is a simple linear go from this location to this and fight trash mobs. The combat content is mostly fake and bloated, it's an illusion of an expansion.
The game is holding a place for the blatantly shameless political message shoved down your throat whether one likes it or not with FORCED reactions of cringe-inducing admiration from player character towards these themes. The player can't react how he wants, he's just given a premade cookie-cutter reaction that fits the obvious agenda of the obviously aligned writer. The writer who begins her work on the game with slandering the original material for being sexist and bigotted and if someone doesn't like her agenda, well that's too bad. Oh boy, with that level of tolerance, nothing can't go wrong, can it?
The themes are presented in a really obnoxious, tiring way. They are laughably stereotypical and "progressively" limited just to sexuality - transgender character (which simply doesn't make any sense in D&D! - gender change belts anyone?) is nothing more than sex speaker. It's mary-sued to the point when the game gets negative reviews written by trans people themselves! (just check out the gog store!). The writing is abysmal in general, everyone sees it's really poorly executed on a level of some fanfiction net novel. The writer can't hold herself from assaulting the player with her unfunny memes, jokes and really out-of-place current political commentary (migrant crisis) with locking the player with possible reactions that strictly fits her own beliefs. The lack of faithfulness to the original material is so huge from the writer, that she decided to REWRITE main female personas, because she personally didn't like their originals. It's the fanfiction's pretentiousness and lack of respect to the readers in its finest.
Which brings us to the main issue: the game treats the playerbase as a DUMB MASS, which needs to be EDUCATED, LECTURED and PATRONIZED to finally accept the one's current political and ideological agenda.

So at the end we have a poorly executed piece of game, troubled mith many important issues that constantly spoil the gameplay itself, that doesn't expand the original content, which is just a set of poorly made new locations (with jarring spawn mechanic) where the story is hamfisted to you in poorly written segments. It's just an excuse to deliver cringe-inducing ideological propaganda that's almost a parody of itself provoking the worst reactions it could receive. The original material was treated as A PROBLEM by the writer.

That's bad enough already, but what's the reaction of the developer and the writer? God forbid they recognize their own faults that led to this poor reception of their latest product. Let's capitalize on the proffesional victim card! Bad reviews? Let's declare it's an organized trolling campaing of patriarchal Gamergate community (Gamergate is not really a thing anymore, but thanks to Beamdog's evergrown ego lunacy it will be revived*, because it's like Gamergate most primitive propaganda come true!). Also, let's start a pathetic campaign on our forums and SJW sites begging people to "balance" the reviews with troll 10/10 scores. Because you know, it's not trolling when WE do it.

The bad reception is perfectly explainable with poorly developed title, which strongest point is nostalgia blackmailing (HOLY SHIEEEET, A NEW BALDUR'S GATE 1 EXPANSION?!), which at the end is just a quickly put together cash-in with free advertisement (you really don't have to spend a dime to advertise a BG title, it's a cult classic) but which treats the original material with no respect at all, where the lead writer blatantly states that the original was sexist and it needs fixing along one's POV. In the process, we got a batshit badly written fanfic excuse of a story, with hamfisted political commentary delivered in demeaning way to the receiver that mostly makes no sense if put in the context of the original lore and rules of conduct (what sense makes a stereotypically laughable mary-sued trans person in a world that has gender change belts?). The developer fails to see its fault and the writer plays a proffesional victim card and slurs anyone daring to criticize her.

The whole Siege of Dragonspear scandal (which it is) is a really shameful display both for the developer and part of gaming media. My second review got deleted on Metacritic again with no information whatsoever, and I didn't even pandered towards SJW.

*I had no idea what "Gamergate" really was up to December 2015. I despise social media, I use a load of additional apps blocking it (ghostery and adblock for example) so my Internet surfing experience is both ad and cancer free. I occasionally read some bits where a term "gamergate" appeared, but mostly out of context, so it didn't help. Only recently one person linked me a videos to some youtube commentators (I hate those) explaining the Gamergate issue in detail.
Post edited April 05, 2016 by Imachuemanch
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Imachuemanch: *the best thing I've read about this whole shitstorm*
Thank you Sir
Isn't it funny how GOG and Metacritic have a ton of one-star reviews and a low average score, while Steam (the only platform from those which actually requires "reviewer" to own the game in question) is mostly positive.

It's almost as if a bunch of sad, vocal misogynist losers had organized an Internet hate campaign against a game they didn't even own, let alone play.

But that's just crazy talk.
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Orava: Isn't it funny how GOG and Metacritic have a ton of one-star reviews and a low average score, while Steam (the only platform from those which actually requires "reviewer" to own the game in question) is mostly positive.
It's almost as if a bunch of sad, vocal misogynist losers had organized an Internet hate campaign against a game they didn't even own, let alone play.
Steam moderates and censors users' activity (both on the forums and recommendations page)*. Metacritic censors and deletes reviews. The said game is available outside of Steam DRM-free (including the Beamdog's store).
You can find five stars reviews on GOG and Metacritic where the authors blatantly admit they don't own the game, but want to "balance" (troll) the score. As for now there was only one declaration of organized campaign, but not against the game, but against really poor reception the SoD receives, by Beamdog themselves, on their own forum. As I said, they try to turn everything round and blame everything but themselves.

It's like they want the worst shitstorm around them to occur.

*It does that in general and in really demeaning way, via the "volounteer community moderators" who more often than not are developers' shills who delete any criticism whatsoever. But the Steam itself is going downhill for quite some time now. A good example is the Elder Scrolls Online sub-forum, where only the steam-version owners are allowed to participate. Even if you own the game out of Steam, or before it entered the Steam, you're just blocked out. ESO was poorly received in general, but the Steam sub-forum is a never ending circle-jerk festival (aside technical topics).
Post edited April 05, 2016 by Imachuemanch
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Orava: Isn't it funny how GOG and Metacritic have a ton of one-star reviews and a low average score, while Steam (the only platform from those which actually requires "reviewer" to own the game in question) is mostly positive.

It's almost as if a bunch of sad, vocal misogynist losers had organized an Internet hate campaign against a game they didn't even own, let alone play.

But that's just crazy talk.
Isn't it funny how Steam is the platform where the devs begged players to post positive reviews?

Nah, let's ignore facts and make up a bunch of imaginary people that all hate women because reasons and somehow grouped together thousands of people in total secrecy and organized something that nobody can prove.

I bet Illuminati control everything you do in your life.

And I'm sure it has nothing to do with the devs' ignorant views like "this fictional world has sexism in it, we must change it". Yeah, make videogames your safe space, I'm sure it'll sell great (just like the first Matrix where everyone was happy got boring for everyone in the movie). What's next? Gonna remove racial bonuses because they're racist?
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vsommers12: It's not political. It's hatred. Some people hate the idea of a person being different so they go on the interwebs and cause a ruckus. Nothing but rabble rousers I tell ya.
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Imachuemanch: A spot on description of Beamdog's and Amber Scott's current behaviour on the Internet. Kudos.

It's sickening to watch them trying to turn everything round and blame everything but themselves for their lack of competence, skill and lack of sanity. There's a campaign run by them and people who don't even know what Baldur's Gate is to troll rating sites.
The issue is not that there objectively are some controversional themes and topics, they're not the problem themselves! There're tons of games with such themes implemented in. There's gay flirting and marriage in original Fallouts, there are lesbians in Wasteland 2, there's a God damned gay Crassius Curio who wants to fuck every man around in Morrowind (and more, but most of this stuff is not obligatory, including incest and zoophila WHAT). In fact CC is one of the most recognizable characters in the video game history, right after Lifts Her Tail (which is a rape story). But for some reason nobody erupted with outrage on the very same themes that are present in Siege of Dragonspear. For fuck's sake, there were gender change belts in D&D since, like - forever, right!

Beamdog's scandal is caused by one fundamental difference between SoD and other games who implement exactly same topics and themes. It's the goal of the developers. Previous games were done for the sake of making a good video game and were written with this in mind. You can find a full cross section of social commentary in games like Morrowind or Fallouts (and a truck load of other titles I've probably never heard of) where certain themes can be represented in really controversional forms. But they were never the essence of any game. Nobody gave 0/10 rating to Wasteland 2 for the lesbian couple bit.
With Siege of Dragonspear we have the opposite. The game itself is really just a placeholder done in a lazy way, which wasn't even basically tested before releasing it. It's bug riddled, there are basic problems with importing charactrs, equipment issues, spells can crash the game, the UI is just plain worse than the previous one, the very game's structure is a simple linear go from this location to this and fight trash mobs. The combat content is mostly fake and bloated, it's an illusion of an expansion.
The game is holding a place for the blatantly shameless political message shoved down your throat whether one likes it or not with FORCED reactions of cringe-inducing admiration from player character towards these themes. The player can't react how he wants, he's just given a premade cookie-cutter reaction that fits the obvious agenda of the obviously aligned writer. The writer who begins her work on the game with slandering the original material for being sexist and bigotted and if someone doesn't like her agenda, well that's too bad. Oh boy, with that level of tolerance, nothing can't go wrong, can it?
The themes are presented in a really obnoxious, tiring way. They are laughably stereotypical and "progressively" limited just to sexuality - transgender character (which simply doesn't make any sense in D&D! - gender change belts anyone?) is nothing more than sex speaker. It's mary-sued to the point when the game gets negative reviews written by trans people themselves! (just check out the gog store!). The writing is abysmal in general, everyone sees it's really poorly executed on a level of some fanfiction net novel. The writer can't hold herself from assaulting the player with her unfunny memes, jokes and really out-of-place current political commentary (migrant crisis) with locking the player with possible reactions that strictly fits her own beliefs. The lack of faithfulness to the original material is so huge from the writer, that she decided to REWRITE main female personas, because she personally didn't like their originals. It's the fanfiction's pretentiousness and lack of respect to the readers in its finest.
Which brings us to the main issue: the game treats the playerbase as a DUMB MASS, which needs to be EDUCATED, LECTURED and PATRONIZED to finally accept the one's current political and ideological agenda.

So at the end we have a poorly executed piece of game, troubled mith many important issues that constantly spoil the gameplay itself, that doesn't expand the original content, which is just a set of poorly made new locations (with jarring spawn mechanic) where the story is hamfisted to you in poorly written segments. It's just an excuse to deliver cringe-inducing ideological propaganda that's almost a parody of itself provoking the worst reactions it could receive. The original material was treated as A PROBLEM by the writer.

That's bad enough already, but what's the reaction of the developer and the writer? God forbid they recognize their own faults that led to this poor reception of their latest product. Let's capitalize on the proffesional victim card! Bad reviews? Let's declare it's an organized trolling campaing of patriarchal Gamergate community (Gamergate is not really a thing anymore, but thanks to Beamdog's evergrown ego lunacy it will be revived*, because it's like Gamergate most primitive propaganda come true!). Also, let's start a pathetic campaign on our forums and SJW sites begging people to "balance" the reviews with troll 10/10 scores. Because you know, it's not trolling when WE do it.

The bad reception is perfectly explainable with poorly developed title, which strongest point is nostalgia blackmailing (HOLY SHIEEEET, A NEW BALDUR'S GATE 1 EXPANSION?!), which at the end is just a quickly put together cash-in with free advertisement (you really don't have to spend a dime to advertise a BG title, it's a cult classic) but which treats the original material with no respect at all, where the lead writer blatantly states that the original was sexist and it needs fixing along one's POV. In the process, we got a batshit badly written fanfic excuse of a story, with hamfisted political commentary delivered in demeaning way to the receiver that mostly makes no sense if put in the context of the original lore and rules of conduct (what sense makes a stereotypically laughable mary-sued trans person in a world that has gender change belts?). The developer fails to see its fault and the writer plays a proffesional victim card and slurs anyone daring to criticize her.

The whole Siege of Dragonspear scandal (which it is) is a really shameful display both for the developer and part of gaming media. My second review got deleted on Metacritic again with no information whatsoever, and I didn't even pandered towards SJW.

*I had no idea what "Gamergate" really was up to December 2015. I despise social media, I use a load of additional apps blocking it (ghostery and adblock for example) so my Internet surfing experience is both ad and cancer free. I occasionally read some bits where a term "gamergate" appeared, but mostly out of context, so it didn't help. Only recently one person linked me a videos to some youtube commentators (I hate those) explaining the Gamergate issue in detail.
There is nothing I could add to that except for my favorit character in Guilty Gear XX: Bridget <3 (I love that guy :D )
On the subjects of ratings, it's pretty clear a lot of people are giving the game reviews that has nothing to do with the game's content (whether they give it 1 star or 5).

If you're interested in this game then really: ignore the rating. By all means, read the reviews (personally I wouldn't recommend reading user reviews for this) but the actual rating number is meaningless.
Post edited April 05, 2016 by ZellSF
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vsommers12: It's not political. It's hatred. Some people hate the idea of a person being different so they go on the interwebs and cause a ruckus. Nothing but rabble rousers I tell ya.
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Imachuemanch: A spot on description of Beamdog's and Amber Scott's current behaviour on the Internet. Kudos.

It's sickening to watch them trying to turn everything round and blame everything but themselves for their lack of competence, skill and lack of sanity. There's a campaign run by them and people who don't even know what Baldur's Gate is to troll rating sites.
The issue is not that there objectively are some controversional themes and topics, they're not the problem themselves! There're tons of games with such themes implemented in. There's gay flirting and marriage in original Fallouts, there are lesbians in Wasteland 2, there's a God damned gay Crassius Curio who wants to fuck every man around in Morrowind (and more, but most of this stuff is not obligatory, including incest and zoophila WHAT). In fact CC is one of the most recognizable characters in the video game history, right after Lifts Her Tail (which is a rape story). But for some reason nobody erupted with outrage on the very same themes that are present in Siege of Dragonspear. For fuck's sake, there were gender change belts in D&D since, like - forever, right!

Beamdog's scandal is caused by one fundamental difference between SoD and other games who implement exactly same topics and themes. It's the goal of the developers. Previous games were done for the sake of making a good video game and were written with this in mind. You can find a full cross section of social commentary in games like Morrowind or Fallouts (and a truck load of other titles I've probably never heard of) where certain themes can be represented in really controversional forms. But they were never the essence of any game. Nobody gave 0/10 rating to Wasteland 2 for the lesbian couple bit.
With Siege of Dragonspear we have the opposite. The game itself is really just a placeholder done in a lazy way, which wasn't even basically tested before releasing it. It's bug riddled, there are basic problems with importing charactrs, equipment issues, spells can crash the game, the UI is just plain worse than the previous one, the very game's structure is a simple linear go from this location to this and fight trash mobs. The combat content is mostly fake and bloated, it's an illusion of an expansion.
The game is holding a place for the blatantly shameless political message shoved down your throat whether one likes it or not with FORCED reactions of cringe-inducing admiration from player character towards these themes. The player can't react how he wants, he's just given a premade cookie-cutter reaction that fits the obvious agenda of the obviously aligned writer. The writer who begins her work on the game with slandering the original material for being sexist and bigotted and if someone doesn't like her agenda, well that's too bad. Oh boy, with that level of tolerance, nothing can't go wrong, can it?
The themes are presented in a really obnoxious, tiring way. They are laughably stereotypical and "progressively" limited just to sexuality - transgender character (which simply doesn't make any sense in D&D! - gender change belts anyone?) is nothing more than sex speaker. It's mary-sued to the point when the game gets negative reviews written by trans people themselves! (just check out the gog store!). The writing is abysmal in general, everyone sees it's really poorly executed on a level of some fanfiction net novel. The writer can't hold herself from assaulting the player with her unfunny memes, jokes and really out-of-place current political commentary (migrant crisis) with locking the player with possible reactions that strictly fits her own beliefs. The lack of faithfulness to the original material is so huge from the writer, that she decided to REWRITE main female personas, because she personally didn't like their originals. It's the fanfiction's pretentiousness and lack of respect to the readers in its finest.
Which brings us to the main issue: the game treats the playerbase as a DUMB MASS, which needs to be EDUCATED, LECTURED and PATRONIZED to finally accept the one's current political and ideological agenda.

So at the end we have a poorly executed piece of game, troubled mith many important issues that constantly spoil the gameplay itself, that doesn't expand the original content, which is just a set of poorly made new locations (with jarring spawn mechanic) where the story is hamfisted to you in poorly written segments. It's just an excuse to deliver cringe-inducing ideological propaganda that's almost a parody of itself provoking the worst reactions it could receive. The original material was treated as A PROBLEM by the writer.

That's bad enough already, but what's the reaction of the developer and the writer? God forbid they recognize their own faults that led to this poor reception of their latest product. Let's capitalize on the proffesional victim card! Bad reviews? Let's declare it's an organized trolling campaing of patriarchal Gamergate community (Gamergate is not really a thing anymore, but thanks to Beamdog's evergrown ego lunacy it will be revived*, because it's like Gamergate most primitive propaganda come true!). Also, let's start a pathetic campaign on our forums and SJW sites begging people to "balance" the reviews with troll 10/10 scores. Because you know, it's not trolling when WE do it.

The bad reception is perfectly explainable with poorly developed title, which strongest point is nostalgia blackmailing (HOLY SHIEEEET, A NEW BALDUR'S GATE 1 EXPANSION?!), which at the end is just a quickly put together cash-in with free advertisement (you really don't have to spend a dime to advertise a BG title, it's a cult classic) but which treats the original material with no respect at all, where the lead writer blatantly states that the original was sexist and it needs fixing along one's POV. In the process, we got a batshit badly written fanfic excuse of a story, with hamfisted political commentary delivered in demeaning way to the receiver that mostly makes no sense if put in the context of the original lore and rules of conduct (what sense makes a stereotypically laughable mary-sued trans person in a world that has gender change belts?). The developer fails to see its fault and the writer plays a proffesional victim card and slurs anyone daring to criticize her.

The whole Siege of Dragonspear scandal (which it is) is a really shameful display both for the developer and part of gaming media. My second review got deleted on Metacritic again with no information whatsoever, and I didn't even pandered towards SJW.

*I had no idea what "Gamergate" really was up to December 2015. I despise social media, I use a load of additional apps blocking it (ghostery and adblock for example) so my Internet surfing experience is both ad and cancer free. I occasionally read some bits where a term "gamergate" appeared, but mostly out of context, so it didn't help. Only recently one person linked me a videos to some youtube commentators (I hate those) explaining the Gamergate issue in detail.
You obviously took a lot of time to write this message, but the problem is I need free time to play video games. I play a lot of video games and often come across characters, dialogue, settings, and/or story arcs I do not like and cringe at. But the difference between me and the GG people is I don't let it bother me to the point of wasting so much of our short lives arguing on the internet. Especially when the fucktard who killed Gorion is still on the loose! peace
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Orava: Isn't it funny how GOG and Metacritic have a ton of one-star reviews and a low average score, while Steam (the only platform from those which actually requires "reviewer" to own the game in question) is mostly positive.

It's almost as if a bunch of sad, vocal misogynist losers had organized an Internet hate campaign against a game they didn't even own, let alone play.

But that's just crazy talk.
Or maybe they bought the game on GoG because you know DRM Free version is preferable.

LOL!
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Orava: Isn't it funny how GOG and Metacritic have a ton of one-star reviews and a low average score, while Steam (the only platform from those which actually requires "reviewer" to own the game in question) is mostly positive.

It's almost as if a bunch of sad, vocal misogynist losers had organized an Internet hate campaign against a game they didn't even own, let alone play.

But that's just crazy talk.
Isn't it funny that Steam, where the developer can block you from posting about the game, also has 168 reviews total? Do you really think only 168 people on Steam bought the game? Baldur's Gate: EE has 2,452 reviews on Steam. That should tell you that something is being manipulated when there's such an insanely small number of reviews for a new expansion to a classic series.
Maybe the game is a piece of shit, but I still believe the people writing walls of text over a silly character and some one-liners have a lot of anger in them and are just hijacking this game to start a fight. They need a hug.
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vsommers12: Maybe the game is a piece of shit, but I still believe the people writing walls of text over a silly character and some one-liners have a lot of anger in them and are just hijacking this game to start a fight. They need a hug.
Got a favorite movie? Hobby? Book? How would you like it if someone bought the rights to it and decided to change it into a joke of what it used to be?