Thanks

All my chars had maximum dex because I always use turn based combat and I want as much action points as possible. Max strengh is also good for a fighter. And maybe this one wants some perception for traps. As for skills: max melee, dodge, backstab, lockpick, pickpocket (just for the sake of beeing the perverted of tarant, I have read the guide after beating the game) and find and disarm traps.
He is an idiot because I never played one before and the dialogues were so funny.

And its an orc and not an ogre. Ogres may be more effective but I want the most hated idiot bastard in the world.

I decided to try this with a half-ogre. I went with the Only Child background: huge WP bonus, but spoiled and surly. I put 1 point in IN, to cast spells and avoid the dumbspeak. (Been there, done that.)

It started out looking promising, but seems to have turned sour fast. My PC can't find anyone willing to train me in Backstab; he's not very good yet (+17) but apparently that's already too goody-goody for this build: the pickpocket at the Tarant train station won't even give me the apprenticeship dialogue option.

Stun works well enough, but I'm still not taken with the whole idea of wasting move points to circle around behind your enemy. And at 10 points a throw, it's not a spell I can throw that many times per battle, without carrying around a whole passel of fatigue potions — something else I'm not used to doing.

Bottom line: while a successful backstab does do a ton of damage, even with a dagger, the setup and compromises I have to go through with this build make it not worth it for me.

Well, that's why I don't recommend a half-ogre. Heh. Strength really doesn't matter beyond being a convenience for carrying stuff.

Halfling is the best choice, followed by half-orc, half-elf, and elf.

There are other ways to join the Underground, BTW. Several other ways, in fact.

TRAINING SPOILER:

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Try Vollinger in the bar in Dernholm.

So, to clarify: you're saying that joining the Underground is what's necessary to unlock the thief skills training dialogues? Evil alignment is not specifically required?

No, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying there are more ways to join the Underground than talking to the pickpocket in the Tarant Train station.

Apprentice training definitely does not require Underground membership, and off the top of my head I don't think Expert does either, although you can get it from them. Evil alignment is not required either.

You're saying neither one is required; but maybe one OR the other is. I can't come up with any other explanation why no one will apprentice me in Backstab. Unless they just don't like half-ogres.

Normally Underground membership isn't a problem; I usually talk my way past Lukan, which pre-qualifies me. But this time I decided against using Persuasion (in favor of an early WP boost) and now I wonder if that's what's causing all the extra trouble. I'll do Mrs. Pettibone's grave robbery quest, and see if that changes anything.


EDIT: And it appears that the problem was with the strategy guide, not with my character. It told me to seek apprenticeship other than where I found it, which was at least one guard in Tarant (next to Jared at the entrance to the train station) and at least one wandering guard in Dernholm. Now to test its reliability on acquiring Backstab expertise.

Okay, I literally just finished playing my half-ogre build. Some (hopefully spoiler-free) observations:

* This IS a crazy powerful build, and the most fun I've had with a melee-based character in a long time.

* I don't know for sure whether the Strength bonus was applied to Backstab damage. But since at some point I stopped stunning all but the most powerful opponents, it was still a good thing to have.

* I see what you mean about which opponents have immunity to Stun. Obvious in retrospect.

* Strength of Earth and Agility of Fire are your friends. (As is Purity of Water, when dealing with townsfolk.)

* If you have Agility of Fire active, you can spend your available CPs (character points) on DX-based skills. When the spell is cancelled, you "lose" the extra ranks, only to have them reappear whenever you cast the spell again.

* Arcane weapons apparently ARE immune to rock and fire damage. Arcane armor, not so much. But repair expertise allowed me to keep fixing them over and over again.

* Stun gets even more game-breaking if you (eventually) take mastery of its spell college... even though that's probably the only spell from that college you'll ever seriously use.

* FYI, the Potion of Intellect allows you to achieve 20 IN, even if your character wouldn't be able to reach it through CPs. This means that on a future build, half-ogre scienticians aren't banned from achieving the top ranks in their chosen technical college. (Nor am I limited to Rare Half-Ogre birth, like I thought I was!)

* Because I intended all along to complete the gods quest — itself something of a game-breaker — I decided to play most of the game with only 3 ranks of Melee. So I saw my fair share of critical misses, and at one point even lost my sword in the sewers when I hadn't realized I'd dropped it.

* The best weapon in the game happens to be one that's only available during the end game. And it's (probably) not the one that you'd think.

* The speed of that weapon, plus having 24 ST and 20 DX, elven boots, the backstab bonus and the Haste spell, allowed me to take out the final boss in just over one turn-based round. That's more than twice as fast as my best effort with a thrown weapon!

In short, thanks to UniversalWolf for adding a shiny new tool to my toolkit. My advice to everyone: halfling or half-ogre, give this one a try. (And you don't even have to become Public Enemy Number One to make the build work... unless, of course, you really really want to.)

One of the reasons this attack style is so...exploitative, let's say...is that there are lots and lots of monsters that shouldn't be affected by a spell from the Mental Magic school, but they are. You used armor? Heh.

I generally get Oiled Thieves Leather and stick with that the whole game. Sometimes I just stick with a Nice Suit and nothing else. I'm curious what your choice was for this. I have a very definite opinion on the best backstabbing weapon in the game, but I don't want to spoil it. I'll tack it on to the end of this post, way down at the bottom. Yes, it's not only a super-powered attack style at the beginning, but all the way through the game to the end. You're welcome!

It's true, Backstab can be useful to almost any sort of melee character. Mages, technologists, warriors...as long as you plan on using a dagger, sword, or axe, Backstab is a tremendous force-magnifier.
SPOILER WARNING
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Okay, here's my pick for the game's best backstabbing weapon. Final spoiler warning.
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There's a weapon carried by one of the pit fighters on the Isle of Despair which is simply called "Sword." Look closely at its stats, and you'll see why it's such a great choice. You have to be quick and search the body of your opponent after you kill him, but before you get teleported out of the pit.

That's a good weapon, but not my weapon of choice. I used a katana (for the speed), followed by various arcane weapons. But far and away best bladed weapon in the game, for serious damage combined with blazing speed, is...

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Torain Kel's sword, once you've taken it from the Bane of Kree. Or his corpse.

A very nice weapon indeed, but that's super late-game.

FWIW, I've always wanted to try a solo pure tech backstabber who uses stun grenades rather than the stun spell. I'll have to do it one of these days.

Another handy tip: if you take companions with you, try to get Firearms users, or groom companions like Magnus to use Firearms, then give them Tranquilizer Guns.