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Ebon-Hawk: Please correct me if I am reading this wrong...

You want to turn Witcher 2 into a D&D clone and in is your opinion that a variety of statistics and possibility of their improvement constitutes as a role playing experience and that without such option the game role playing elements are little shallow?
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archaven: Yes you are reading it wrong. I never have any intention in turning Witcher to D&D clones. In fact i just felt it lack RPG elements compared to the original Witcher. In TW1 there's STR/DEX/MAGIC in case you didn't notice. So does TW1 feels D&D to you?
Fair enough, thanks for the clarification...

That being said I do think you are asking for template design by expecting something to fit a specific design methodology before you consider it to be adequate.

And while voicing my opinion and taste I completely disagree with you on the RPG front, it sounds to me like you are asking for a roll playing game and not role playing game, numbers and statistics do not make the game...
If they want to blend genres ( something they derided in an early trailer for the game...love the Irony ) they should at least pick the best that consoles have to offer. Instead they chose QTE's and impractical 'epic' boss battles that don't really work and are more about spectacle than gameplay. I'm not the first to say this, many critics have already stated how out of place these console style battles feel with the rest of the game.

Seriously, if CDPR needs to get it out of their system, make a Witcher platforming game where Geralt jumps around on mushrooms like Mario, or a Witcher FPS game where we shoot an automatic crossbow, or perhaps one that uses Kinect where we can flail around like some headless chicken to get our exercise...don't laugh, Gop already said they are open to multiplayer for The Witcher franchise. My point? Much of what consoles have to offer is for 12 yr olds and should be left at that, and not incorporated into an otherwise mature and sophisticated RPG.
Post edited June 26, 2011 by scampywiak
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scampywiak: If they want to blend genres ( something they derided in an early trailer for the game...love the Irony ) they should pick the best that consoles have to offer. Instead they chose QTE's and impractical epic boss battles that don't really work and are more about spectacle than gameplay. I'm not the first to say this, many critics have already stated how out of place these console style battles feel with the rest of the game.

Seriously, if CDPR needs to get it out of their system they can make a Witcher platforming game where Geralt jumps around on mushrooms like Mario, or a Witcher FPS game where we shoot an automatic crossbow, or perhaps one that uses Kinect where we can flail around like some headless chicken to get our exercise...don't laugh, Gop already said they are open to multiplayer for The Witcher franchise. My point? Much of what consoles have to offer is for 12 yr olds and should be left at that and not incorporated into an otherwise mature and sophisticated RPG.
Precisely. If they want to include 45 minutes of QTE / "console" boss fights into a 24-hour long game, they might as well develop console games for 12-year-olds. Because we all know that only 12-year-olds enjoy console games. And if you are not 12 years old and you still love console games, GROW UP!!!

Edit: Sorry, my bad. I thought you wrote 13 years old. Fixed to 12 years old.
Post edited June 26, 2011 by vAddicatedGamer
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vAddicatedGamer: Because we all know that only 13 year-olds enjoy console games.
Glad we can agree.
Sounds to me like you guys hate the game... :(
Sounds to me like I hate this entire forum more and more every single day. No wonder PC gaming is dying, you're all ruining it by being elitist morons.
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Ebon-Hawk: Sounds to me like you guys hate the game... :(
Nah, most of the game is awesome.
It's bullshit like "press button to not die" that's dumb.

If you want to use QTEs in a boss fight, it's possible to do it well.

Such as, when riding on the back of a giant monster, moving left/right in response to prompts to avoid its attacks, while attacking it without prompts.

Or maybe not QTEs at all, but input sequences.
Such as having 3 seconds to put in some commands.
on Easy: UP, DOWN, B
on Hard: UP, UP, DOWN, DOWN, LEFT, RIGHT, LEFT, RIGHT, B, A, Start
Maybe randomise it to mix stuff up.

Partial QTEs or inputting the konami code may still be insulting to players like me, but at least it retains some skill requirement (rather than being completely braindead).
i can think of several spots during the prologue where instead of having QTEs, the game used your existing actions and binds. dodging the dragon, for instance, should have been spacebar (roll), not left click.
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archaven: Yes you are reading it wrong. I never have any intention in turning Witcher to D&D clones. In fact i just felt it lack RPG elements compared to the original Witcher. In TW1 there's STR/DEX/MAGIC in case you didn't notice. So does TW1 feels D&D to you?
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Ebon-Hawk: Fair enough, thanks for the clarification...

That being said I do think you are asking for template design by expecting something to fit a specific design methodology before you consider it to be adequate.

And while voicing my opinion and taste I completely disagree with you on the RPG front, it sounds to me like you are asking for a roll playing game and not role playing game, numbers and statistics do not make the game...
Well you can disagree with me but saying number and statistics does not make a role playing game? If you think so that is just your opinion.

In Witcher 2 you have % chance to incinerate/bleed/poision/stun/knockback/ one hit to kill.. so in your opinion Witcher 2 is not a role playing game but a ROLL playing game?

In Witcher 1 they have Str, Dex and Magic too but they stripped it off from Witcher 2. So Witcher 1 is not a role-playing game?

In my opinion RPG comes with number of flavors. I would called Witcher 2 as a Hybrid Action RPG. Where game factors in 2 element: Player skill (action) and Character skill (statistics: Weapons/Armors/Signs/Bombs/Potions).

Role playing games assume you take the role from a specific character in the game (Geralt) and character statistics and mechanics (Weapons/Armors/Items/Signs/Skills) has been closely tied to combat from the knowledge of general audience.
Post edited June 26, 2011 by archaven
I played the role of Geralt of Rivia, therefore I role-played this game. Statistics/micro-managing have never had anything to do with role-playing games. You play the role of a character that's pre-determined or you create your own, that's the bottom line of an RPG.
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Jeffro: I played the role of Geralt of Rivia, therefore I role-played this game. Statistics/micro-managing have never had anything to do with role-playing games. You play the role of a character that's pre-determined or you create your own, that's the bottom line of an RPG.
True i agree. At the moment Witcher 2 is an Action RPG with some lite statistics mechanism NOT an Adventure RPG. I LIKE how Witcher 2 as it is at the moment but adding Str, Dex, Magic as attributes to Geralt wouldn't hurt either seeing Witcher 1 has it and it adds more depth to Character development.

In every level up, Geralt will be given 3-4 points to distribute his attributes. I see nothing so wrong about it and again Witcher 1 has it.
Post edited June 26, 2011 by archaven
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Jeffro: I played the role of Geralt of Rivia, therefore I role-played this game. Statistics/micro-managing have never had anything to do with role-playing games. You play the role of a character that's pre-determined or you create your own, that's the bottom line of an RPG.
That's not how computer games are defined, though.
By your reckoning, LA Noire is an rpg.
Heck, by a literal interpretation of what you said, frogger is an rpg.
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Jeffro: I played the role of Geralt of Rivia, therefore I role-played this game. Statistics/micro-managing have never had anything to do with role-playing games. You play the role of a character that's pre-determined or you create your own, that's the bottom line of an RPG.
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Danceofmasks: That's not how computer games are defined, though.
By your reckoning, LA Noire is an rpg.
Heck, by a literal interpretation of what you said, frogger is an rpg.
The discussion of this time is pointless unless we can agree on common terms or common ground. One cannot compare oranges to apples and suggest that they are of a same colour...

Role-playing refers to the changing of one's behaviour to assume a role, either unconsciously to fill a social role, or consciously to act out an adopted role. While the Oxford English Dictionary defines role-playing as "the changing of one's behaviour to fulfil a social role", the term is used more loosely in four senses:

To refer to the playing of roles generally such as in a theatre, or educational setting;
To refer to taking a role of an existing character or person and acting it out with a partner taking someone else's role, often involving different genres of practice;
To refer to a wide range of games including role-playing video game, play-by-mail games and more;
To refer specifically to role-playing games.

Now, given the above… can we agree on this or is Oxford English Dictionary not a good enough start?
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Ebon-Hawk: To refer to a wide range of games including role-playing video game, play-by-mail games and more;
Right ... so the oxford english dictionary says ... "as defined by the video game industry."
Brilliant.
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Ebon-Hawk: To refer to a wide range of games including role-playing video game, play-by-mail games and more;
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Danceofmasks: Right ... so the oxford english dictionary says ... "as defined by the video game industry."
Brilliant.
No, the Oxford dictionary says "the changing of one's behaviour to fulfil a social role"