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Chromie192: Remember when games used to just start with out a tutorial?
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ThulsaDooom: Yes! The good old days when a player had to figure things out by his/herself. The modern gamer is a drooling, brainless, temper tantrum throwing buffoon.

Tutorial levels in games are such a waste of development time and take away from real, actual gameplay you could have and something I much, ,much prefer instead. Tutorials need to go.

The combat is finely crafted and for once in a game, I had to use ALL my abilities to survive. Don't call it crap or consolised because you don't like it or can't handle it. Just say it's not your style.
I have to disagree with you about tutorials. The Prologue of TW2 is the fraking best tutorial I've seen, I could replay it many times (actually I had to because it thought I had a bug when it was just stupidity - first run I could spent talents w/out meditating but not on 2nd run. I thought it was a bug and it never occurred me that there is a "Character" tab on the Meditation screen). The Journal and the Character Sheet have all information needed to learn from the tutorial/prologue. Those who don't, can't really blame the game!

Now, the rest of your post has put manly tears in my eyes! Cheers!
Post edited May 23, 2011 by RageGT
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MihaiHornet: I was talking about The Witcher (1st game). Sorry if I was unclear. The main point is that you don't have 1 stroke per click at all. :)
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cloud8521: oh

well ya.... :P in this game its sort of the same.... sort of. but its only one swing per click... and after some time into it he does something needlessly complex... usually just getting blocked for it.
Exactly my point. :)

The Withcer - 1 attack (multiple strokes and kicks) per click
The Witcher 2 - 1 stroke per click

Totally different IMO. And I'm not saying that one is better than other, just not the same thing at all.
Playing on hard, have no problems thus far. Quen, traps, bombs and luring enemies seem to do it for me. Kinda appreciate the combat now as compared to TW1 where I just meleed everything to death with the timing clicks.
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cw8: Playing on hard, have no problems thus far. Quen, traps, bombs and luring enemies seem to do it for me. Kinda appreciate the combat now as compared to TW1 where I just meleed everything to death with the timing clicks.
You forget the magic signs. You had them in TW too.

With level 5 Igni and level 5 Intelligence you could burn even packs of Greater Brothers to a crisp without breaking a sweat. And if you performed the Place of Power ritual and amplified it even more you could easily fry the mighty Koshchey. :)
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MihaiHornet: With level 5 Igni and level 5 Intelligence you could burn even packs of Greater Brothers to a crisp without breaking a sweat. And if you performed the Place of Power ritual and amplified it even more you could easily fry the mighty Koshchey. :)
Sadly, even though my characters in RPGs tend to be Mages/Wizards/Spellcasters, I didn't really use Signs in TW1, except for Aard, force-push->finishing ftw :D
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MihaiHornet: With level 5 Igni and level 5 Intelligence you could burn even packs of Greater Brothers to a crisp without breaking a sweat. And if you performed the Place of Power ritual and amplified it even more you could easily fry the mighty Koshchey. :)
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cw8: Sadly, even though my characters in RPGs tend to be Mages/Wizards/Spellcasters, I didn't really use Signs in TW1, except for Aard, force-push->finishing ftw :D
I didn't use the signs much either when I first played the game. But then I realized how powerful signs are and used them more. I still favored sword play but instead of maximizing group styles I got level 5 Igni and Intelligence to devastating effects.

EDIT I forgot stamina, level 5 stamina is also good for signs. :)
Post edited May 23, 2011 by MihaiHornet
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MihaiHornet: I didn't use the signs much either when I first played the game. But then I realized how powerful signs are and used them more. I still favored sword play but instead of maximizing group styles I got level 5 Igni and Intelligence to devastating effects.

EDIT I forgot stamina, level 5 stamina is also good for signs. :)
I need to try that sometime. But that'll be like my 3rd replay of TW1, lol.
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ThulsaDooom: The good old days when a player had to figure things out by his/herself.
The good old days when a player could read a manual to figure (I mean a true one, a paper one, one you could take in hands: MANUAL)
You could look at the game and the manual in same time, or read the manual in bed or tramway.
Post edited May 23, 2011 by ERISS
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ThulsaDooom: The good old days when a player had to figure things out by his/herself.
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ERISS: The good old days when a player could read a manual to figure (I mean a true one, a paper one, one you could take in hands: MANUAL)
Agree. :)

I'm happy that I bought Witcher 2 Collector's edition (disk version) as it has lots of reading material on paper, a manual that is more than 20 pages of very basic install info, and a complete game guide plus a 195 page art book and lots of other nice stuff.
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maul_inc: I'm happy that I bought Witcher 2 Collector's edition (disk version) as it has lots of reading material on paper, a manual that is more than 20 pages of very basic install info, and a complete game guide plus a 195 page art book and lots of other nice stuff.
Yeah, with DRM :(
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MihaiHornet: I didn't use the signs much either when I first played the game. But then I realized how powerful signs are and used them more. I still favored sword play but instead of maximizing group styles I got level 5 Igni and Intelligence to devastating effects.

EDIT I forgot stamina, level 5 stamina is also good for signs. :)
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cw8: I need to try that sometime. But that'll be like my 3rd replay of TW1, lol.
Yeah, I did it in my 3rd replay too. After maximizing Igni to it's fullest (Inteligence & Stamina included) the rest of the game was like a hmm... blaze. LOL
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maul_inc: I'm happy that I bought Witcher 2 Collector's edition (disk version) as it has lots of reading material on paper, a manual that is more than 20 pages of very basic install info, and a complete game guide plus a 195 page art book and lots of other nice stuff.
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ERISS: Yeah, with DRM :(
Yeah, that's the downside of that version, but a friend with the GOG edition, gave me the GOG start file because the disk version takes too long to start the game.

Anyway, I'm gonna buy a second copy of Witcher 2 here on GOG, just to support CDPR, as I love their games. I also got 2 copies of the Witcher 1 including the disk based Limited edition, I love collector's editions :D

Right now, I have the Geralt statue standing next to my monitor :-)
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MihaiHornet: Just to make it clear, in The Witcher for every click you get an attack consisting of a sequence of strokes. For every sword skill level you unlock more powerful attacks (and not only sword strokes but also kicks) that you can chain with devastating effects by timing you clicks correctly. You not only are able to stop your attack at any moment but you can also attack another foe without breaking the combo if you time it correctly.

To sum it up, in TW you don't have a stroke per click but an attack per click.
Now this definition I can agree with. (Although by 'stroke' I didn't mean a single slash, but the act of hitting something. (See definition on Dictionary.com, item 2)). 'Attack' is a much better word though. Always felt the word 'stroke' sounded funny but couldn't think of a better word then. The things about each stroke/attack in TW1 is that results can vary - depending on whether it 'connects' (or 'hits', or 'registers', etc.) or of it was blocked, or in the case of some armored enemies, it can 'hit' just once, twice, or three times.
Post edited May 23, 2011 by darkwoof
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Addai67: Uh.. yes, he auto-attacks, though you have to click at the right time to continue his chain attack. You don't have to click for every sword stroke. Maybe it's been a while since you played?
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darkwoof: He most certainly DOES NOT. Maybe YOU should play it again. You have a chance to increase the potency of your next attack if you click at the right time, but you DO have to click again or Geralt goes back to a "swaying" stance and just stands there. You have to click at the RIGHT TIME to chain your combos, if you click too early, you disrupt the attack, click too late and you are just starting the next attack anew early. The only way to not stop is actually to chain your combos. Otherwise Geralt stops without exception.
Well, I see that you finally got what I was talking about when another poster explained it. Maybe if you weren't trying so hard to be a dick, you'd have figured it out from what I was saying.

TW1- click to advance the chain, but not for every sword stroke
TW2- click for every individual sword stroke

Lots more clicking. I didn't like that mechanic in the first, and I like the new system even less.
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darkwoof: He most certainly DOES NOT. Maybe YOU should play it again. You have a chance to increase the potency of your next attack if you click at the right time, but you DO have to click again or Geralt goes back to a "swaying" stance and just stands there. You have to click at the RIGHT TIME to chain your combos, if you click too early, you disrupt the attack, click too late and you are just starting the next attack anew early. The only way to not stop is actually to chain your combos. Otherwise Geralt stops without exception.
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Addai67: Well, I see that you finally got what I was talking about when another poster explained it. Maybe if you weren't trying so hard to be a dick, you'd have figured it out from what I was saying.
I see you're not reading my post again. Read my quote of MihaiHornet's reply. My definition of 'stroke' refers not to a single slash but an 'attack' as used by MihaiHornet. I said it was a "better way of putting it" because neither yourself nor he/she understood what I meant correctly. I wouldn't have used the word "attack" myself originally since if Geralt were to launch an "attack" on a character, the "attack" is not considered over until 1) The target is killed, 2) Geralt is killed, 3) Geralt runs away. Since it is logical to assume that the moment you start attacking a subject you intend to kill him, then it is also logical to say that an "attack" on a character includes all the slashes and stabs and signs you throw at him until he dies. This is why I do not use the word "attack". But as I mentioned, since it works better for MihaiHornet, I'm fine by it since he already came out to define it.

To explain what I meant by the word 'stroke' I even explained where the definition came from, i.e. Dictionary.com's definition no. 2. A 'stroke' in martial arts or other physical arts is not defined necessarily as a single, uni-directional blow, but as a single or single sequence of actions to achieve an objective, in this case, the act of hitting somebody. As I mentioned, depending on the blocking capabilities (either due to action or armor) of the target, he may get 'hit' once, twice, thrice, or even none at all. Is a 'stroke'

As an example, in the Streetfighter series, Ryu/Ken's "Shoryuken" or rising-dragon punch may connect more than once, but it is a single "stroke". This is sometimes animated as a two-handed punch: He punches first with one hand, quickly followed by the other as he rises into the air. An equivalent Chinese character used in describing this in martial arts is "招", which incidentally also translate to the word "move" (similar in meaning to a 'move' in chess). In International Chess, generally each 'move' your consist of 1 movement of a piece. But when you perform a "Castling" 'move', you move both the Rook and the King in a single 'Move'.

An better example is in swimming. For example, in Lance Armstrong's Livestrong.com, a single "stroke" in the Butterfly Stroke or Butterfly Style consist of the Dolphin Kick, the Forward then Downwards Arm Pulls together with the Breathing. Even though there are multiple parts of the body moving in multiple directions to perform a sequence of actions, it is consider ONE STROKE.

As I reiterated earlier, I see you as a waste of my time since you're obviously not interested in an intellectual discussion. I have my respect for MihaiHornet because at least when he disagrees he bothers to produce definitions and justifications for his remarks. I can't say the same for you.

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Addai67: TW1- click to advance the chain, but not for every sword stroke
TW2- click for every individual sword stroke

Lots more clicking. I didn't like that mechanic in the first, and I like the new system even less.
And now I re-iterate once more; in TW1 you don't just have to re-click to advance the chain. If you miss the chain (assuming you have a deathwish and don't want to capitalize on the chain combo) you STILL have to re-click or you will just stand there after the animation completes. The process is the same in both games:

1) an enemy have a fixed amount of HP. You need to do enough damage to kill him.
2) ergo, you are required to click as many times as necessary to do so.
3) since most enemies do not have a minuscule amount of HP, you'd have to click repeatedly to kill them.
4) Both TW1 and TW2 has similar mechanics if you click at the right time, in TW1 this is the chain-combo mechanism which does greater damage in lesser time, in TW2, successive-chained hits result in Geralt performing faster and deadlier moves, which does greater damage.

That's the whole point of the discussion, stop avoiding the issue. If you have any substance at all, bring out your counter-points like MihaiHornet did and not hide behind your skewed opinions.