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jlibster: PS: you are in fact incorrect about nearly all game having DRM. Do more research in gaming outside of the mainstream super hyped media and you'll find them. Particularly the indie channels. There are MANY games (and many run in Linux FYI, of commercial grade) wth no DRM. most (if not all) Flash based games out there have no DRM either. I know this because I've purchased and tested them. Top ones that come to mind: Amnesia, Penumbra, Mechanium, World of Goo, Stitch in Time, and many others.
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Cyjack: .


Why can you not follow this? I just said, not all Copy Protection is DRM as we commonly define the term, and most games you buy retail have always had some form of token copy protection, via a serial number, disk protection, or what have you, and they have had it for decades, since I started buying pc games in the 90s.

Your definition of DRM is overly broad. TW2 launcher is not "DRM-lite" . STEAM is DRM lite, or at least a light DRM solution that is reasonably benign and inobtrusive, but DRM all the same.

We are talking about high profile retail releases here, not some browser flash game that nobody would care about anyway.
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jlibster: You seem very quick to defend Internet based DRM schemas which is interesting given how badly this one played out.
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Cyjack: .

Maybe. But I'm not the idiot who knowingly bought a game with SECUROM on it, so Ive got that going for me.
Neither did I, its the principle. No buyer should have to deal with it. Not everyone is as informed on the technologies , drm pitfalls or what not as I am. they shouldn't have to be. My definition is functional which is the only one that counts with buyers in the end and the only one that keeps developers honest with the public. The rest is all legal BS, which EA/Bioware pulled to avoid being sued for not disclosing use of SecuROM in DA2 which a previous court order required them to disclose. (cute workaround..) People have been getting increasingly sneaky about doging the question " Can I run my legally purchased single player gamer properly without needing you to be in business?" MMOPG are a separate matter.

as for browser flash games, you apparently aren't up on your gaming industry news or technologies. Most of the games I mentioned are written in "C" or "C++". Not flash. And some of the flahs games (many of which I haven't mentioned, got some serious critical acclaim). You are too quick to dismiss alternatives to the people like EA. Thanks to you I've felt the need to point them out. Thanks. I'm sure the public thanks you too..;-)
Post edited May 27, 2011 by jlibster
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electropretzel: a group of 10 people want to play the game so each of them puts 10$ and they buy it together, download and enjoy it a legal copy. now lets make it 50 people. Moreover, not everyone know how to put cracks and use keygens - thats why they prefare to buy the game. now they have the game on the internet without any need to download cracks or any other shit they need. Well instead of selling 80k more copies CDP prefare to give them away.
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Coelocanth: As I already noted, if people are going to steal the game, they're going to steal the game. And make no mistake - the site rules here tie the game to your account (for the purposes of being able to DL the files). If whoever owns the account is sharing the files, they're completely breaking their agreement with GOG and they're contributing to piracy. Are you seriously postulating that this hypothetical person and his/her friends would be above DLing a cracked copy of the retail game? And are you seriously postulating that they wouldn't know how to obtain a cracked copy?

Your argument is ludicrous.
Wanna bet that there are many people that want to play cracked games but they don't know how to download them? BELIEVE me when i say that, I have a long history with that kind of stuff ;)
People are stupid... even after they download the game they don't know how to extract RAR files, how to download cracks and where to put them. At the end they give up and buy the game. However, thanks to CDP they just need to install the game and play with all the benefits of the legal verion :) and btw... Why won't everyone make their game DRM free?! Why do they invest so much money on protecting the game even though the game is cracked on day 1.... why the fu** do they do that?
Post edited May 27, 2011 by electropretzel
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Coelocanth: As I already noted, if people are going to steal the game, they're going to steal the game. And make no mistake - the site rules here tie the game to your account (for the purposes of being able to DL the files). If whoever owns the account is sharing the files, they're completely breaking their agreement with GOG and they're contributing to piracy. Are you seriously postulating that this hypothetical person and his/her friends would be above DLing a cracked copy of the retail game? And are you seriously postulating that they wouldn't know how to obtain a cracked copy?

Your argument is ludicrous.
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electropretzel: Wanna bet that there are many people that want to play cracked games but they don't know how to download them? BELIEVE me when i say that, I have a long history with that kind of stuff ;)
People are stupid... even after they download the game they don't know how to extract RAR files, how to download cracks and where to put them. At the end they give up and buy the game. However, thanks to CDP they just need to install the game and play with all the benefits of the legal verion :) and btw... Why won't everyone make their game DRM free?! Why do they invest so much money on protecting the game even though the game is cracked on day 1.... why the fu** do they do that?
they didnt know some low life scumbag turd of an employee was going to leak the game before release.

hopefully they coded the copy leaked and the wanker has been caught and arrested.

AND had his bollocks ripped off by a small terrier starved for 5 days and offered the bollocks that were smeared with marmite
Post edited May 27, 2011 by ArnoldJ.Rimmer
Doesn't surprise me. But its not like they could do anything.

99% of the time, the Publisher has the money, and the one with the money always makes the decisions. I'm 100% certain that the DRM was Atari/Namco Bandai/other publisher's doing.

It sucks, but at least CDR released a patch removing it. So soon as well, most never get a patch.
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electropretzel: Wanna bet that there are many people that want to play cracked games but they don't know how to download them? BELIEVE me when i say that, I have a long history with that kind of stuff ;)
People are stupid... even after they download the game they don't know how to extract RAR files, how to download cracks and where to put them. At the end they give up and buy the game. However, thanks to CDP they just need to install the game and play with all the benefits of the legal verion :) and btw... Why won't everyone make their game DRM free?! Why do they invest so much money on protecting the game even though the game is cracked on day 1.... why the fu** do they do that?
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ArnoldJ.Rimmer: they didnt know some low life scumbag turd of an employee was going to leak the game before release.

hopefully they coded the copy leaked and the wanker has been caught and arrested.

AND had his bollocks ripped off by a small terrier starved for 5 days and offered the bollocks that were smeared with marmite
lol they can't find anyone. there are many groups like RAZOR 1911, SKIDROW and RELOADED that crack those games. The illigal copy leaks almost everytime. it's the worst idea to give the game for previews. I've seen the illegal copy a week before the official game release date and it was on russian - no other language was supported. Although many cracked games are already out the developers still invest alot of money in order to make the activation of the game as safe as possible and ofc they are not offering free content for pirates. The point is that making the game DRM free is the dumbest idea that CDR ever had. Anyway, i have nothing to complain about because i can't really change anything about it and i got a major increase of FPS. In chapter 3 i have 75-100 fps on high settings (Before the patch I had around 60 in that chapter)
Post edited May 27, 2011 by electropretzel
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ArnoldJ.Rimmer: they didnt know some low life scumbag turd of an employee was going to leak the game before release.

hopefully they coded the copy leaked and the wanker has been caught and arrested.

AND had his bollocks ripped off by a small terrier starved for 5 days and offered the bollocks that were smeared with marmite
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electropretzel: lol they can't find anyone. there are many groups like RAZOR 1911, SKIDROW and RELOADED that crack those games. The illigal copy leaks almost everytime. it'e the worst idea to give the game for previews. I've seen the illegal copy a week before the official game release date and it was on russian - no other language was supported. Although the game is already out the developers still invest alot of money in order to make the activation of the game as safe as possible and and ofc they are not offering free content for pirates. The point is that making the game DRM free is the dumbest idea that CDR ever had. Anyway, i have nothing to complain about because i can't really change anything about it and i got a major increase of FPS. In chapter 3 i have 75-100 fps on high settings (Before the patch I had around 60 in that chapter)
wrong actually,you can simply alter a line of code or even a single polygon to identify who was given a copy and by who.

and the contract you sign on joining a software developer means you could be paying reparations for the rest of your life depending on how many times the copy was downloaded etc.

the same goes for downloaders,unless you know who those others are on your tracker you have no idea if your ip was logged and cases are pending.
as it gets more and more profitable to chase up downloaders we will see more and more prosecutions.

the age of safe torrenting is over,businesses are sprouting up everywhere who specifically offer a service to chase up the pie rats.
so unless you have a legit account for the stuff you grab/torrent,you could one day get an arse kicking ;)

the fact it isnt widespread right now will change,as theres too much money in it to be ignored.
Post edited May 27, 2011 by ArnoldJ.Rimmer
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electropretzel: lol they can't find anyone. there are many groups like RAZOR 1911, SKIDROW and RELOADED that crack those games. The illigal copy leaks almost everytime. it'e the worst idea to give the game for previews. I've seen the illegal copy a week before the official game release date and it was on russian - no other language was supported. Although the game is already out the developers still invest alot of money in order to make the activation of the game as safe as possible and and ofc they are not offering free content for pirates. The point is that making the game DRM free is the dumbest idea that CDR ever had. Anyway, i have nothing to complain about because i can't really change anything about it and i got a major increase of FPS. In chapter 3 i have 75-100 fps on high settings (Before the patch I had around 60 in that chapter)
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ArnoldJ.Rimmer: wrong actually,you can simply alter a line of code or even a single polygon to identify who was given a copy and by who.

and the contract you sign on joining a software reparations for the rest of your life depending on how many times the copy was downloaded etc.

the same goes for downloaders,unless you know who those others are on your tracker you have no idea if your ip was logged and cases are pending.
as it gets more and more profitable to chase up downloaders we will see more and more prosecutions.

the age of safe torrenting is over,businesses are sprouting up everywhere who specifically offer a service to chase up the pie rats.
so unless you have a legit account for the stuff you grab/torrent,you could one day get an arse kicking ;)

the fact it isnt widespread right now will change,as theres too much money in it to be ignored.
The law can't do anything about those who download but against those who publish. Downloading cracked games by torrent is illegal because by the time you download it you upload it as well. Downloading the game from direct download server is legal - you can enter a police department and download it there and no one can fine you or put you in jail. Many companies understand that when they arrest one hacker there are 20 more waiting to replace him. This is the reason why they publish more and more free games. BFH, P4F, APB and NFS are examples of EA's free games. in the upcomming years you will see more and more free games because the real money is in this business. BTW i know my grammar is not so well ^^
Post edited May 27, 2011 by electropretzel
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ArnoldJ.Rimmer: wrong actually,you can simply alter a line of code or even a single polygon to identify who was given a copy and by who.

and the contract you sign on joining a software reparations for the rest of your life depending on how many times the copy was downloaded etc.

the same goes for downloaders,unless you know who those others are on your tracker you have no idea if your ip was logged and cases are pending.
as it gets more and more profitable to chase up downloaders we will see more and more prosecutions.

the age of safe torrenting is over,businesses are sprouting up everywhere who specifically offer a service to chase up the pie rats.
so unless you have a legit account for the stuff you grab/torrent,you could one day get an arse kicking ;)

the fact it isnt widespread right now will change,as theres too much money in it to be ignored.
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electropretzel: The law can't do anything about thos who download but agains those who publish. Downloading cracked games by torrent is illegal because by the time you download it you upload it as well. Downloading the game from direct download server is legal - you can enter a police department and download it there and no one can fine you or put you in jail. Many companies understood that when they arrest one hacker there are 20 more waiting to replace him and that's why the publish more and more free games. BFH, P4F, APB and NFS are examples of EA's free games. in the upcomming years you will see more and more free games because the real money is in this business. BTW i know my grammar is not so well ^^
your kung fu is flawed

i dont want to get into another legalese arguement,suffice to say its going to change,as i said,theres simply too much money to be had.

there was a time when paedo`s thought they couldnt get caught or snitched on by their ISP`s.
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electropretzel: The law can't do anything about thos who download but agains those who publish. Downloading cracked games by torrent is illegal because by the time you download it you upload it as well. Downloading the game from direct download server is legal - you can enter a police department and download it there and no one can fine you or put you in jail. Many companies understood that when they arrest one hacker there are 20 more waiting to replace him and that's why the publish more and more free games. BFH, P4F, APB and NFS are examples of EA's free games. in the upcomming years you will see more and more free games because the real money is in this business. BTW i know my grammar is not so well ^^
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ArnoldJ.Rimmer: your kung fu is flawed

i dont want to get into another legalese arguement,suffice to say its going to change,as i said,theres simply too much money to be had.

there was a time when paedo`s thought they couldnt get caught or snitched on by their ISP`s.
the internet is the wild-west, the laws are written by surfers ^^ lets see any democratic coutry that will try to pass any law against surfers (like collecting information on your activity). it's only your judjement if you would like to download cracked game, surf porn sites, visit sites and see whats new in wikileaks or watch videos on youtube. After all i prefared to buy the game although i could download it a week before it came out. in the past years I downloaded enougth games and movies to fill up over 3TB. Nowdays I buy games on preorders (like Portal 2, BF3 and TW2). I also buy games on sales and nice bundles. If someone can't efford the game I have no problem with him downloading it, My only problem is with those that can efford and they prefare to steal it. In CDP they believe that people are honest and have a moral judjemant that's why they removed DRM.
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electropretzel: Wanna bet that there are many people that want to play cracked games but they don't know how to download them? BELIEVE me when i say that, I have a long history with that kind of stuff ;)
People are stupid... even after they download the game they don't know how to extract RAR files, how to download cracks and where to put them. At the end they give up and buy the game.
You seriously believe that someone that wants cracked games won't be able to use Google to find out where to get them and how to install them? And these same incompetents that can't figure out how to extract a .rar file aren't going to be intimidated and confused by GOG's .bin files? Do you really think the number of people that are going to get together to share a GOG account are going to represent significant numbers? I don't, and apparently GOG and CDPR don't.
It's usually the publishers that impose these strict rules NOT the developers. Until CDP has a much wider outlet for their own distribution and localization they are stuck dealing with publishers some of whom could care less for the consumer and the devs themselves..

(EA I'm talking about you, Fuckin' rat bastards!)
EA & Steam = they're completed each other.
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wormholewizards: EA & Steam = they're completed each other.
*Shiver* You're absolutely right...

Gives me the creeps just thinking about it..I think I'll go and watch something pleasant now, like an autopsy on a 3 week old corpse! x^D
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Sfon: The fast removal of DRM signifies something far more sinister. Some of the more perceptive of you might already have guessed as the truth. Let me go over this clearly for those still struggling with putting it all together:

First, DRM is broken before digital distribution release, rendering it useless.
Next, comparisons are made showing that the DRM has a much greater impact on performance than expected.

Now you are probably thinking that the proper response is to continue to insist that the DRM is working. If so congratulations, you think like a sane, red-blooded human being.

However that is not what CDPR did. In a shocking move, they removed the DRM simply because it was not stopping copyright infringement yet was hurting those that were willing to work within the system. This is not the behavior of a company run by our fellow human brothers and sisters. Rather, it is the behavior of an alien intelligence we can scarcely comprehend and that has little regard for how things are done on this great planet of ours. God's favorite planet.

So then what do they want? Our women? Our brains? I do not know. I know only one thing: This serves as a warning to all of us. And when the day of reckoning comes we will either have heeded that warning or all we love will be lost.
I lol'd...sometimes looking at it from a completely different angle makes things so clear, right? Thank you for this post haha :-D

On another note I would like to say what has already been said. CDPR as a development group was very clear on where they stand with DRM. Does that mean that all of their publishers are aligned with their philosophy? No. CDPR is a relatively young team, while these publishers have been around for decades. They are from the "old world". You can liken them to the Music Industry moguls who will do anything that is perceived to protect their investments. DRM, as already was clearly stated by CDPR and many others, and is self evident on EVERY single modern day computer game release, does not prevent piracy. Nor does DRM in your itunes collection. On one side, music artists (of any actual worth) are not concerned about DRM technology placed on their music, they are more concerned with getting their music out there, heard, and appreciated. On the other side, their record label (and some more financially focused artists as well) are concerned with getting the music out there with as little leak in potential profits as possible, and will support distributors who spend extra processes on "perceived" protection. Until it becomes clear to all that DRM is not effective, this cycle will continue.

Ultimately it is up to CDPR's to reject publishers that support DRM, but the fact is that any major computer game publisher does in some form or another. So at this point it is up to the head of the company to decide whether they want to go completely independent, with limited distribution channels, or to take their chances with DRM and publish via the mainstream route.

GOG as great as it is and as much as it should be imho, is not a "major" publisher, and has the lucky fortune of being a sister company to CDP. The fact that DRM was removed so quickly in the other versions of the game is due to two reasons, I feel. 1) It has to do with the fact that they already had a version (GOG) without DRM, the DRM was tacked on to all other versions.
2) As was previously stated by someone in this topic and by CDPR themselves, they had planned at some point in the future to remove DRM from all versions of the game, if possible.
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electropretzel: Wanna bet that there are many people that want to play cracked games but they don't know how to download them? BELIEVE me when i say that, I have a long history with that kind of stuff ;)
People are stupid... even after they download the game they don't know how to extract RAR files, how to download cracks and where to put them. At the end they give up and buy the game.
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Coelocanth: You seriously believe that someone that wants cracked games won't be able to use Google to find out where to get them and how to install them? And these same incompetents that can't figure out how to extract a .rar file aren't going to be intimidated and confused by GOG's .bin files? Do you really think the number of people that are going to get together to share a GOG account are going to represent significant numbers? I don't, and apparently GOG and CDPR don't.
lol lets see something. I have 5 friend bought the game together and now they downloading it one by one. i'm not joking.
On other forum i surf there are over 100 people who are downloading the game right now. 20% of them don't know how to extract the game and 50% don't know how to mount ISO files to drives... they don't even know what the fu** is it. so...hmm... I guess i am wrong.