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Pillars of Eternity SeriesNew character after patch .... advice?(31 posts)(31 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted April 03, 2015
Ok, the news of what will be fixed in the upcoming patch is astounding. Cannot wait, and really hope the patch does the trick and doesn't inadvertently cause other issues. I know the major fixes are retroactive and will fix your current save, but I'd planned on starting with a different character anyway SO:

Right now I'm playing a mage. and at first I was worried when the first 2 characters I recruited were ANOTHER mage and a fighter. But the strategy I developed worked amazing with that trio - placing my mages side by side or on opposite sides (depending on situation) and having my fighter sneak in and lure the enemies into a double casting of fan of flames. Pretty awesome. My mage used points leftover from lore and put them in mechanics. Then I met Durance who's mechanics skill was 1 higher than mine (5) at lvl 4. I then wished my main had put them into stealth instead but alas it was too late.

I'm torn between these building these 3 characters:

1) A Wizard who is mainly a wizard (lore) but has every extra point I can spare put directly into stealth .... a Stealth Wizard
2) A pure Rogue with points in both stealth and mechanics (not a fan of Durance, not gonna get him again) who specializes in missle attacks (war bow, arbalast, blunderbuss, etc)
3)A Ranger with stealth and survival skills (almost the same as #2 but without points in mechanics) ... and he can start with a damn GRIZZLY!!! (from what I hear anyway, haven't tried myself yet)


ANSWERS I'D APPRECIATE:

1.)I have a basic to mediocre understanding of the 6 main attributes and what they do, but some of you I'm sure know better than I. I am a min/max 'er (baldur's gate, ToEE, the real Fallout games- there are only 2) when it comes to character creation, I would appreciate your thoughts on which attributes for each of these 3 can be a dump stat.

2.)A great race and background that compliments these character types.

3.)Am i right in thinking you should stick to ONLY 2 traits on lvl ups (i.e. Lore and Stealth), one being your main the other being your secondary? Seems if you spread more than that you are building a Jack of all (weak) Trades ...

4.)Your opinion on which of these 3 you would enjoy playing best.


I'm going to dive into my huge backlog of point & clicks I missed back in the day while waiting for the patch

I welcome all opinions on this and thanks in advance for your thoughts!

To add:

I know I can just make up the whole team myself (like how I played ToEE .. I think, been awhile), but I'd prefer my first full playthrough with only in-game recruits ..... my second play I will likely create my entire team at the inn
Post edited April 03, 2015 by kmh12177
Posted April 03, 2015
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kmh12177: 1) A Wizard who is mainly a wizard (lore) but has every extra point I can spare put directly into stealth .... a Stealth Wizard
Max Might (for damage), Dexterity (for attack speed), and Intelligence (for extra effect duration and AoE area on spells). Dump some Constitution, since if you are getting hit a couple more endurance probably won't save you anyway (I would reduce this as much as you are comfortable with, given your previous play with a Wizard). Perception is probably the other dump stat I would choose, since Resolve is linked to concentration.

I would pick Race and Background that raise Might, Dexterity, or Intelligence. Wood Elf is a good choice here, since you would get the racial trait Distant Advantage (the accuracy bonus applies to spells as well). Since you are mainly Lore, I would certainly pick either Aristocrat or Artist for the +2 Lore on creation.
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kmh12177: 2) A pure Rogue with points in both stealth and mechanics (not a fan of Durance, not gonna get him again) who specializes in missle attacks (war bow, arbalast, blunderbuss, etc)
Max Might and Dexterity. If the Rogue has many duration attacks (I am not certain, I haven't looked at them closely), then you want to max Intelligence as well. As a ranged attacker, you can dump Constitution, and you probably don't need all the deflection from either Perception or Resolve.

Wood Elf is an obvious choice for the same reasons as for the Wizard above; Distance Advantage racial trait. However, a case could be made for the +2 Str bonus of Aumaua or Dwarf (though Dwarf has a -1 Dex too), for more attack damage. Orlan is also decent, since their racial trait converts 10% or regular hits to critical hits, the only downside is they have a -1 Might modifier as well.

Pick the Living Lands for the bonus to Might, for bigger attacks to overcome potential DR. Pick Laborer for +1 Mechanics and +1 Athletics (there is no background that gives to only Stealth or Mechanics, but Athletics is useful for everyone, imho)
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kmh12177: 3)A Ranger with stealth and survival skills (almost the same as #2 but without points in mechanics) ... and he can start with a damn GRIZZLY!!! (from what I hear anyway, haven't tried myself yet)
I am assuming you are going to use a bow, and aren't going with some Ranger melee build (for whatever reason)? I would pretty much do the same thing as with the Rogue above, in terms of race.

The Hunter background has +1 to Survival and Stealth, and fits a Ranger quite well, I think.
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kmh12177: 3.)Am i right in thinking you should stick to ONLY 2 traits on lvl ups (i.e. Lore and Stealth), one being your main the other being your secondary? Seems if you spread more than that you are building a Jack of all (weak) Trades ...
I would probably dump entirely into Mechanics for the first part of the game, if that is a skill you plan to pursue on your character. Lore also is one you might want to single out if you want to be able to read the highest levels of scrolls, since as far as I can tell you need 2X(spell level) Lore to use a scroll (so, rank 12 to use level 6 scrolls). Other than that, I think you can probably get by with only a few ranks in the other skills.
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kmh12177: 4.)Your opinion on which of these 3 you would enjoy playing best.
The Wizard. I might play a melee Rogue, but not a ranged one (I like stabbity rogues). And Rangers... bleh... can't stand them or Druids, thematically ... dang nature loving hippies! ;)
Post edited April 03, 2015 by Krypsyn
Posted April 03, 2015
Thanks for the advice!

Yeah, I like stabbity rogues too, but not right in the beginning .... I would start with bows and after some levels move towards sneaky backstabs ;) ........ The bear(s) in that first cave would destroy me if I tried to backstab that early (I'm not fond of going back later for things ... for me it's now or never, even if it takes 20 reloads and lots of luck;)

The only problem with rogues for me (and rangers for that matter) is that while they are fun at first, eventually I get really bored of them. But that was in previous games, it might be different here.


I DO like the idea of a Stealth Wizard the best. I would love to start battle with a Surprise! fan of flames attack, then gth outta there while fighters move in. Maybe set Aloth up a little ways behind my main with a 2nd surprise fan o' flames while they are chasing down my main lol. And the patch notes state they are going to increase spell AoE's, so this may work even better.
Posted April 03, 2015
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kmh12177: Yeah, I like stabbity rogues too, but not right in the beginning .... I would start with bows and after some levels move towards sneaky backstabs ;) ........ The bear(s) in that first cave would destroy me if I tried to backstab that early (I'm not fond of going back later for things ... for me it's now or never, even if it takes 20 reloads and lots of luck;)
Those bears (on hard, I am assuming? I think there is only one on normal/easy). I think I reloaded about a dozen times with my Cipher before giving up. I tried everything... charming, blinding, running around to kite (which is comical to try in the confines of that cave). In the end, I just came back Aloth as a meat-shield (yeah, you know it is bad when you are using a wizard as a meat-shield :P).
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kmh12177: The only problem with rogues for me (and rangers for that matter) is that while they are fun at first, eventually I get really bored of them. But that was in previous games, it might be different here.
Yeah, I normally keep amused by stealing everything that isn't nailed down. However, in this game you don't even need a rogue for that. :( Cipher is my current glass-cannon dps build, so it'll be a while before I try Rogue, probably.
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kmh12177: I DO like the idea of a Stealth Wizard the best. I would love to start battle with a Surprise! fan of flames attack, then gth outta there while fighters move in. Maybe set Aloth up a little ways behind my main with a 2nd surprise fan o' flames while they are chasing down my main lol. And the patch notes state they are going to increase spell AoE's, so this may work even better.
Yeah, Wizards are getting Slicken nerfed, but it seems like they are getting some sort of buff overall (which was needed, imho). The idea of "Surprise, Wizard Attack!" does amuse me greatly as well. ;)
Posted April 03, 2015
Yeah, I was on normal with the cave and it was one bear. My lone wizard ended up killing it, but only after MANY reloads and LOTS of luck.

I started battle with a surprise oil slick (the first number of reloads it didn't affect him at all, but at some point it worked on every reload after that), then fan of flames as many times as possible before I died. If I remember correctly, 3 fan of flames killed him (before that I could only get off 1 or 2 before death). LUCK was my friend that last time, he killed me sometimes with one hit, sometimes 2.

The winning time, oil slick worked, he fell twice before getting right in my grill, I got off 2 fan of flames, and just as I shot off the 3rd and killed him he hit me at the same time. I have both enemy death and character death set to pause, and it paused after that 3rd fan of flames. But looking at my character portrait, I thought we had just killed each other at the exact same time and I was not happy...... but as luck would have it, his hit must have taken my character down to 1% because after un-pausing I was good to go. But I swear my portrait looked fully in the red at that pause lol.

I never would have survived 2 bears.



I have no idea how to play ciphers.
Posted April 03, 2015
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kmh12177: I have no idea how to play ciphers.
They are essentially D&D Sorcerers with a bent towards crowd control (with a few differences thematically). They get a limited number of Abilities (basically 'spells') to choose from, but they are allowed to cast as many of them as they want per rest, assuming they have the focus to do so. They regain focus by doing physical damage with weapons (whether melee or ranged), and they have some class-specific talents that make this easier as you level.

The major thing that sets them apart from other casters is that all of their spells have to have at least one soul as a target. So, all spells are centered on a foe/ally, or create a path between you and a foe/ally. This makes them a bit fiddly and micromanaging intensive at times.

Playing them as a ranged attacker is the easier route, since they have the health and defensive statistics of a wizard, though some folks seem intent on playing them as melee.
Posted April 03, 2015
Hmm, Ciphers now sound very interesting with the sorcerer comparison ..... they sound like a class you would pick in a tech rpg to hack into computers or something.


I planned on recruiting Grieving Mother as I hear she is a good candidate to use as a mechanics (traps, unlocking) character, and she is a Cipher. Good to know I can use her as a ranger and another spellcaster ;)

Are Ciphers main trait "Lore" as well, like Wizards?
Posted April 03, 2015
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kmh12177: Are Ciphers main trait "Lore" as well, like Wizards?
They get 1 Lore/Mechanics/Stealth as their starter class skills. I wouldn't really put a lot of Lore on anyone outside of the main character, though, unless you plan to use scrolls with that character. Ciphers, since they don't have an Ability/rest limit like Wizards have with spells, are probably less in need of scrolls. Since I have Cipher as my main character, I do plan to invest heavily into Lore, but that is mainly for the dialogue choices more than anything else; I haven't decided how heavily however.

The description of Lore also states that it helps "contribute to revealing their defenses and, for common enemies, filling in their Bestiary entries." However, I don't know how much of an impact this actually has.
Posted April 03, 2015
Niiiiiice

to know Ciphers come with +1 Mechanics and +1 Stealth ......

Now I know who to use as my sneak thief out of battle.


I think I will go with a Stealth Wizard after the patch. I already know which npc's I'm going to recruit too.

My only concern now is the min/maxing portion of character creation. I maxed might and Intellect on my first Wizard, though I left dexterity at 13 I believe. I think I left Constitution at 10, and I'm not too comfortable going below that tbh (see bear above:) In fact, I'd like it a bit higher if I could find the points.

That leaves Perception and Resolve.

I wonder what effect dumping PER to it's lowest number would have?
And maybe not dumping Resolve, but lowering it under 10?

From what I gather, it defends against will attacks (charm etc) and helps prevent interrupts while casting if I get hit ..... but even at 13 (I think I was at) I was getting charmed anyway .....

I can't remember exactly what perception does in this game, I think ranged accuracy (spells included) ......

Dammit, those seem important for my wizard ..... if I have to resign to just dumping CON I might as well run around shirtless because I could get 1 hit killed anyway ..... but at least my action bar would be fast
Posted April 03, 2015
Well, after conferring with the manual (again), it seems perception affects the range of spells and their accuracy of hitting. I take that to mean how far you can cast a spell successfully. So that seems important.

I think Resolve is going to be my dump stat. I know it affects Will attacks (I'll always get charmed - oh well, my stealth mage will always get the first shot anyway, plus I have back up mages), chance to get interrupted while casting (same as above), and duration of spell effects (I don't plan on using duration spells anyway, just powerful one-hitters like fan of flames - though I haven't looked ahead to see what spells are available after level 2 - but then again, I'll have a back up mage and a cipher who can use those types of spells ...).

So yeah, I think I'll max Might, Intellect, Dexterity, and Perception.

Then dump Resolve and get as much CON as I can.

Can't wait for this patch ;)
Posted April 03, 2015
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kmh12177: Well, after conferring with the manual (again), it seems perception affects the range of spells and their accuracy of hitting. I take that to mean how far you can cast a spell successfully. So that seems important.
Nah, from the wiki, Perception is, per point above/below 10:

±3 to Interrupt
±1 to Deflection
±2 to Reflex

I don't think any attribute affects accuracy, just certain talents, abilities, and items.

As for Resolve, if you max out Dexterity, it shouldn't be a huge issue to take a bit of a concentration penalty. An 18 Dexterity speeds up both your attacks and recovery by 24%. Less time casting means a smaller window of risk to get interrupted, and a shorter time to recast a spell if you are interrupted. As a bonus, since Armor only slows down the speed of attack recovery, not the actual attack, you could even wear some fairly heavy armor and still break even (using Dexterity 10 as a baseline).

So, if you would rather keep Constitution higher, you can reduce both Perception and Resolve if you want. Those are the two Attributes that deal with deflection though, so you will get hit more often. As for the Will and Reflex negatives you will take reducing Resolve and Perception, respectively, these are offset by the bonuses you gain from Intelligence and Dexterity, respectively.

Edit:
Noticed I typed the wrong word above (corrected it). Wearing armor slows down the speed of recovery, not the attack itself. Dexterity affects both the attack speed (such as casting) as well as the preparation for the next attack (recovery).
Post edited April 03, 2015 by Krypsyn
Posted April 03, 2015
Thanks for that link. I didn't even know the game had a wiki yet lol

Well, I guess I'll swap PER and RES in my last comment ;)


PER seems much more tailored to ranged fighters, to interrupt enemy spellcasters. My wizard wont need that.
Posted April 03, 2015
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kmh12177: PER seems much more tailored to ranged fighters, to interrupt enemy spellcasters. My wizard wont need that.
Honestly, I would probably put Resolve and Perception on tanks, since they should, hopefully, be taking the brunt of abuse. Everyone else gets Might and Dexterity. Intelligence for anyone that would benefit from larger areas of effect or longer duration on abilities/spells. Constitution gets whatever is left over, if anything.

I amuses me a bit that Constitution has become the acknowledged dump stat. Sort of like Charisma is for D&D. All other dump stats depend on what class you plan to play, but that is the one most often selected in general.
Post edited April 03, 2015 by Krypsyn
Posted April 03, 2015
Well I did a little test creation, and after this one I imagine I'll be doing more tweaks...

Mona Lisa
Wizard
Wood Elf
Old Vailia (+1 Intellect)
Artist (+2 Lore)

MIG 18
CON 15
DEX 19
PER 4
INT 19
RES 3

Lore 4
Mechanics 1

Health 104
Endurance 35

Defenses (here's the big change i'm gonna need to make, due to low PER and RES):
Deflection -2 (!!!!!!)
Fortitude 46
Reflex 26
Will 24


A minor change to make will be changing Artist (+2 Lore) to Dissodent (+1 Stealth, +1 Lore) as I want a Stealth Mage (besides, I like the roleplay background of dissodent much better :)

The major change will have to be lowering CON to increase equally PER and RES (or just RES)
The low PER and RES makes me take a BIG hit to deflection (the main direct attack defense), and honestly I don't see much of a difference, if at all, in health and endurance from my CON 10 mage to this CON 15 mage.

Calisca (the fighter you start with) has 1 less CON than me, yet has higher health and endurance. Her accuracy is also higher.

At least these bugs will give me time to mess around with Attributes in char creation until I find one I like.

The -2 deflection could work with a "Stealth Mage", except that the first bear would maul me and so would teleporting enemies ...
Posted April 03, 2015
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kmh12177: Calisca (the fighter you start with) has 1 less CON than me, yet has higher health and endurance.
Yeah, it is a Catch 22. Constitution adds Health/Endurance on a percentage basis. Tanks, like Fighters (Endurance: 42 +14/level, Health: Endurance x 5), already have more Health/Endurance, so they don't really need to invest much more. However, classes that might do with a bit more Health/Endurance, like Wizards (Endurance: 30 + 10/level, Health: Endurance x 3) get a more paltry benefit from any point invested. It ends up making Constitution not very worthwhile for most builds.

Contrast this with AD&D 2nd Ed. (IE rules), where raising Constitution a few points could easily raise your Mage's health by 50%. No complaints about how PoE does it, really; it is just different.

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kmh12177: The -2 deflection could work with a "Stealth Mage", except that the first bear would maul me and so would teleporting enemies ...
Do remember, you can always use a shield. The larger ones reduce accuracy, but the small shield you can get (sort of like a buckler, I guess) raises deflection by 8 and doesn't reduce accuracy at all.

These are the stats I am using for my Cipher rebuild, in case you were wondering:

Wood Elf, Old Vailian, Aristocrat

Mig 18
Con 8
Dex 19
Per 4
Int 19
Res 10

Dumping everything into Lore, at least until 8 Lore or so.
Post edited April 03, 2015 by Krypsyn
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Pillars of Eternity SeriesNew character after patch .... advice?(31 posts)(31 posts)
(31 posts)