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Gliese58i: I'm sorry that you feel that way. I think that the experience should be scaled based on difficulty and surch a curveball might not be appropriate when not playing on hard difficulty. For example the starting enemy forces could be reduced to only 1 enemy agent and less grunts and reinforcements could be toned down a bit perhaps. Then again everyone has their own preference for difficulty, I'm sure some people playing on easy or normal are ok with the level of challenge they're facing.

A big thing for me in this mission was that I had an agent that had enough HP (boosted by perk selection on level up) to do a takedown on one of the enemy agents that spawned right next to me. My other two agents were then able to each kill one enemy grunt on turn 1 since they don't have any awareness or cover at that point. Getting 3 kills right of the bat was immensely helpful but after that I still had to make a run for the extraction point trying to break line of sight as much as possible to avoid enemy fire.
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Yunipuma: Ok, that's the way I handled that 1st enemy agent too. But then there was no way for me to extract my team alive - enemies just swarmed me up. It's all comes to amount of damage enemies can do compared to amount of damage player's character can inflict. Enemies are always come fresh with full awareness, so my agents can ALWAYS inflict less damage compared to enemies (as my agents' awareness could not regen fast enough).
This is completely unfair masochism - and WITHOUT ALTERNATIVE OPTIONS. You can do this mission ONLY in a ways developers planned, not in your own way.
And that's what game is - creating your OWN way. If I want to see other people way of doing things, I read a good book or watch a good story. INTERACTIVE experience is all about finding YOUR own way.
To be fair, you can always only do things the way game devs allow you to and never in "your own way". After all, you didnt make the game, they did. If you mod the game then you can do it the way you want to.

What you might mean is them adding more than 1 way to solve an issue.
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Yunipuma: OP played on medium difficulty. And did it exactly because he is NOT ok with being punched in the gut on a regular basis with unfair mission setups.
That's my whole point - if developers create a game which punishes player for starting open combat, then they MUST give player an option to NOT engage in open combat. In agent elimination missions there IS such an option, but in this particular mission (which is part of story and CANNOT BE AVOIDED) there is no such an option. So yes, I find this game's core design decisions bad. IF developers change this approach I'll buy the again again, but now - it's farewell.
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Gliese58i: I'm sorry that you feel that way. I think that the experience should be scaled based on difficulty and surch a curveball might not be appropriate when not playing on hard difficulty. For example the starting enemy forces could be reduced to only 1 enemy agent and less grunts and reinforcements could be toned down a bit perhaps. Then again everyone has their own preference for difficulty, I'm sure some people playing on easy or normal are ok with the level of challenge they're facing.

A big thing for me in this mission was that I had an agent that had enough HP (boosted by perk selection on level up) to do a takedown on one of the enemy agents that spawned right next to me. My other two agents were then able to each kill one enemy grunt on turn 1 since they don't have any awareness or cover at that point. Getting 3 kills right of the bat was immensely helpful but after that I still had to make a run for the extraction point trying to break line of sight as much as possible to avoid enemy fire.
Sounds like a case of waiting until your agents are strong enough before going into the story? I haven`t even gone onto the next story for 3 reasons...
1. I prefer a sandbox to story so tend to just do anything else before going to the story.
2. To avoid ending the game too quickly.
3 And to make sure my men are strong enough to handle most problems.

Going into the story straight away could make it much harder, especially if the game does not level down to your men`s skill as seems to be the case here.
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Yunipuma: OP played on medium difficulty. And did it exactly because he is NOT ok with being punched in the gut on a regular basis with unfair mission setups.
That's my whole point - if developers create a game which punishes player for starting open combat, then they MUST give player an option to NOT engage in open combat. In agent elimination missions there IS such an option, but in this particular mission (which is part of story and CANNOT BE AVOIDED) there is no such an option. So yes, I find this game's core design decisions bad. IF developers change this approach I'll buy the again again, but now - it's farewell.
This may sound harsh - I'm a straight forward guy, I'm aware of that - but you are not meant to succeed on every mission (unless Deadpen/Kodiac dies which ends your game).

If you fail your mission you're agents are not automatically dead, they are just missing in action. Unless they went down during the mission and you saw them bleed out, then they are dead.
They may return after a few hours/days or not. That's what makes it a great spy-game. You can - after that mission you had trouble with - brainwash agents, make them sleeper agents, you name it. So can your enemy which means that your returning missing agent might now sabotage your efforts; double agents!

See missions from the opposing party's point of view. Usually you're counterpart spies on something, you send your agents in infiltrate their operations and attack without the enemy noticing. Now it's their turn to do the exact same thing on you except you know they are onto you (you're told that the enemy is looking for your hideout). Act accordingly; you know that the only phase you'll get is open combat. There is no need to be stealthy so have your agents equip those light vests you hopefully looted on earlier missions and you might even win the encounter (it wasn't easy, at all, but I somehow managed to get all three agents out alive).

Sure, you have to think strategically in advance but ..! You get the point.
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IFW: Please don't just make it clear, take all the feedback about combat and add optional ways of dealing with the problems your players see :)
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F4LL0UT: Well, I'm pretty sure that in each post I say that we are working on actually improving the game. Some stuff will probably be added as options, as you said. The explanations of the status quo are a bonus.
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Swedrami: Optional being the keyword here.
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F4LL0UT: Don't worry. We're trying our best to make sure that none of the changes will make the game worse to those who already like it.
Awesome!
Do you have any ballpark ETA?
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IFW: Do you have any ballpark ETA?
Soon.
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Yunipuma: Don't want to be rude or something, but - got to the story mission on KGB route where you need to evac your team. Got 2 enemy agents & endless spawns.
After 2 hours I gave up on this shit. 3 medikits = 3 heal for the whole fight, 3 smoke grenades (or frag grenades as I reloaded & tried different setup) which does not change a lot...
Either you disable endless respawn of enemies on scripted fight mission or change medikits to endless usage, this mission will remain an exercise in masochism.
Sorry to say, but it the 1st time I will do a refund. This is not my kind of game.
What i did is went trough backdoor tossed 3 smoke nades and got away without killing anyone or reciving any damage.
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Schpulke: What i did is went trough backdoor tossed 3 smoke nades and got away without killing anyone or reciving any damage.
Sorry - do not believe you (about "receiving ANY damage" part) .
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Schpulke: What i did is went trough backdoor tossed 3 smoke nades and got away without killing anyone or reciving any damage.
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Yunipuma: Sorry - do not believe you (about "receiving ANY damage" part) .
Dodged... smoke nades are crazy good. Toss smokes, dont forget to restore awarness.
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Yunipuma: Sorry - do not believe you (about "receiving ANY damage" part) .
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Schpulke: Dodged... smoke nades are crazy good. Toss smokes, dont forget to restore awarness.
Did it 3 times in 2 tries to play thru that mission. Tat's why I say I do not believe you.
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Schpulke: Dodged... smoke nades are crazy good. Toss smokes, dont forget to restore awarness.
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Yunipuma: Did it 3 times in 2 tries to play thru that mission. Tat's why I say I do not believe you.
It's up to you mate... I finished that mission from 3rd try. went out of the backwindwow, hugged trucks, tossed one smoke, moved, next turn smoke again and then agains moke at extration point.(called beforehand) it's possible.
Post edited August 17, 2018 by Schpulke
low rated
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Schpulke: Dodged... smoke nades are crazy good. Toss smokes, dont forget to restore awarness.
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Yunipuma: Did it 3 times in 2 tries to play thru that mission. Tat's why I say I do not believe you.
If you got your refund you should stop commenting on here.
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Yunipuma: Did it 3 times in 2 tries to play thru that mission. Tat's why I say I do not believe you.
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SarahAustin: If you got your refund you should stop commenting on here.
And why that? Is there an official forum rule that I cannot discuss the game that caused me grief? Or is it just your personal order?
I'm not hating developers, I'm not hating the game as whole, I hate a singular design decision.
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Yunipuma: Did it 3 times in 2 tries to play thru that mission. Tat's why I say I do not believe you.
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SarahAustin: If you got your refund you should stop commenting on here.
He has the right to speak. He bought the game, was unhappy and he has the right to say why. He may even buy it back if things change enough for him.
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SarahAustin: If you got your refund you should stop commenting on here.
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Socratatus: He has the right to speak. He bought the game, was unhappy and he has the right to say why. He may even buy it back if things change enough for him.
Exactly. Like I said to GOG support team, if developers include an option to disable endless enemies, I'll re-buy the game, because I was happy enough with everything else so far. My sincere desire to see it happen so I speak here in hope the devs will listen.
Post edited August 17, 2018 by Yunipuma
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IFW: Do you have any ballpark ETA?
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F4LL0UT: Soon.
Thank you :)