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Realistically dodge AC is the most overvalued thing ever. It's not that, but the fact monks consistently have more AC. Almost all touch attacks don't kill you and you can be immune to the vast majority of them. Also invis+mirror would land you somewhere below 25% to be hit by those anyways.

As to no buffing - it's the wrong game for that. I don't have a good advice for that. I guess play whatever and lower the difficulty till you can beat the mobs?
Can Jaethal be made into a decent tank? Or will her AC never quite be up to par?
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Pangaea666: Can Jaethal be made into a decent tank? Or will her AC never quite be up to par?
Decent as in usable? She can. Decent as in anywhere near Val? Nah.
Hi InEffect,

Thanks for all of the information you've put out regarding this game. I'm a newcomer to this game that's interested in doing a more RP-centric build with a human paladin that wears plate armor. I saw your monkadin build but would prefer not to wear robes from a RP perspective. How would you tweak your monkadin build to fit this? My initial thoughts would be to go Vivi 1 instead of the monk 1, and to grab improved unarmed at level 1 with the bonus human feat to still have access to crane. Thanks for taking the time to read this.
Hi InEffect,

I'm pretty new to Pathfinder and haven't played any tabletop. I've got a lot of experience with Baldur's Gate and DA:O, but still feel kind of lost in this game.

I'm looking for some guidance on moving forward with a possible Sacred Hunstman/Aldori Defender build. Is that something that could work? With the dueling sword that comes with Defender, would I just want my second hand free? Also, what feats should I be prioritizing? The choices are kind of overwhelming especially considering the class differences.

I've read through most of your builds and really like a lot of them. The one that gets closest to what I really want to play is Mad Doge, but for whatever reason, that isn't jiving with me. Love your work and appreciate your time.
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ShepherdCrusader: Hi InEffect,

I'm pretty new to Pathfinder and haven't played any tabletop. I've got a lot of experience with Baldur's Gate and DA:O, but still feel kind of lost in this game.

I'm looking for some guidance on moving forward with a possible Sacred Hunstman/Aldori Defender build. Is that something that could work? With the dueling sword that comes with Defender, would I just want my second hand free? Also, what feats should I be prioritizing? The choices are kind of overwhelming especially considering the class differences.

I've read through most of your builds and really like a lot of them. The one that gets closest to what I really want to play is Mad Doge, but for whatever reason, that isn't jiving with me. Love your work and appreciate your time.
Well lets break down what we have
Sacred, if at all we want 12 levels. Maybe 14 if you really care about exploit weakness
Aldori you want 1 for effectively 2 feats, 2 for another feat if you have nothing better to take or 9 if you want class features. The latter is not an option. Not only cause it doesn't fit, but also cause you'd want pet progression.
So with 13 levels set you have 7 to spend and at most 3 of those can be 3/4BAB class and be of a non-pet class. Could sac a bit more from the pet, but I wouldn't go far into that.
Of full pet classes to add we have mad dog, druid, sylvan. Of those only mad dog fits.
So we are at sacred 12/F1/MD2 by 15. 5 left. if we go for sacred 14, we get to 17 with 3 levels free. Best we can fit in 3 levels is either vivi or slayer, since we have 3 levels of bonded animal to spare, but as you want full bab classes there I'd choose slayer for sacred14/F1/MD2/Slayer3.

Now to the god selection. That part is actually easy. You want to either be erastil community or Abadar nobility, depending on how much wisdom you'd have. as guarded hearth with less than 10 wis mod is hardly worth it.

Another one you could go for is to try milking the bond for something better. If you want armor you can get Divine guardian 3 that can cast his shield thingie on himself for another +4 armor, but going cha on sacred wouldn't be my first choice.

Then you could get monk for obvious synergy with something like TM1/Sacred12/F1 base, but there is precious little you can add on top without a lot of alignment switching. With alignment shift you could pull off TM2/F2/Sacred12/MD6

Now a slightly more interesting one would be Sacred12/F1/Ranger6+1 free level for either fighter, stalwart or monk. The latter is the most net gain, especially if you go without armor, but that'd add maybe a bit too much dipping to frontload, so I;d probably opt for oak+bracers for this one. Ranger would help to skip feats with menacing, so I guess it's not the worst non-sneak shield bash you could do.

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Zhally: Hi InEffect,

Thanks for all of the information you've put out regarding this game. I'm a newcomer to this game that's interested in doing a more RP-centric build with a human paladin that wears plate armor. I saw your monkadin build but would prefer not to wear robes from a RP perspective. How would you tweak your monkadin build to fit this? My initial thoughts would be to go Vivi 1 instead of the monk 1, and to grab improved unarmed at level 1 with the bonus human feat to still have access to crane. Thanks for taking the time to read this.
DG14/archae2/DD4 is what you want. With DG3/archae2/DD4 as a core build. DG will give you 4AC from casting shield on yourself(it's stupid, but you can do it) and archae2/DD4 will provide a UD, 2 feats and 3 AC. Good enough of a ramp to start with even for armor. Mythral plate would impose 25%ASF on you, but you can take it off for buffing out of combat, which is what you;d mainly do. I personally would opt for oak by midgame for that reason alone, but it's not so bad once you get used to it and 25% is not so crippling as to make it impossible to cast in combat. It's decent, comes online fast and overall won't make you feel terrible for playing paladin in a setting that has precious little evil enemies. For a weapon I'd go either greataxes for Vanquisher(duh) or oversized bastards for ovinrbaane/greater shock +5
Post edited May 28, 2020 by InEffect
Your last idea here has me intrigued. What would the level progression look like for Sacred12/F1/Ranger6+1? Would my first dip be before 5?
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RollingStampede: Your last idea here has me intrigued. What would the level progression look like for Sacred12/F1/Ranger6+1? Would my first dip be before 5?
I'd probably go F1>Sacred 8>Ra6>Sacred12>+1. I don't exactly have a strong case for it, except being a half-decent support via domains. From the power standpoint MD2/TM2/sacred14/F2 is the strongest one. Start LG, make every chaotic decision, grab 2 MD levels, read atonement scroll. Done. Continues as planned.
Post edited May 28, 2020 by InEffect
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ShepherdCrusader: Hi InEffect,

I'm pretty new to Pathfinder and haven't played any tabletop. I've got a lot of experience with Baldur's Gate and DA:O, but still feel kind of lost in this game.

I'm looking for some guidance on moving forward with a possible Sacred Hunstman/Aldori Defender build. Is that something that could work? With the dueling sword that comes with Defender, would I just want my second hand free? Also, what feats should I be prioritizing? The choices are kind of overwhelming especially considering the class differences.

I've read through most of your builds and really like a lot of them. The one that gets closest to what I really want to play is Mad Doge, but for whatever reason, that isn't jiving with me. Love your work and appreciate your time.
avatar
InEffect: Well lets break down what we have
Sacred, if at all we want 12 levels. Maybe 14 if you really care about exploit weakness
Aldori you want 1 for effectively 2 feats, 2 for another feat if you have nothing better to take or 9 if you want class features. The latter is not an option. Not only cause it doesn't fit, but also cause you'd want pet progression.
So with 13 levels set you have 7 to spend and at most 3 of those can be 3/4BAB class and be of a non-pet class. Could sac a bit more from the pet, but I wouldn't go far into that.
Of full pet classes to add we have mad dog, druid, sylvan. Of those only mad dog fits.
So we are at sacred 12/F1/MD2 by 15. 5 left. if we go for sacred 14, we get to 17 with 3 levels free. Best we can fit in 3 levels is either vivi or slayer, since we have 3 levels of bonded animal to spare, but as you want full bab classes there I'd choose slayer for sacred14/F1/MD2/Slayer3.

Now to the god selection. That part is actually easy. You want to either be erastil community or Abadar nobility, depending on how much wisdom you'd have. as guarded hearth with less than 10 wis mod is hardly worth it.

Another one you could go for is to try milking the bond for something better. If you want armor you can get Divine guardian 3 that can cast his shield thingie on himself for another +4 armor, but going cha on sacred wouldn't be my first choice.

Then you could get monk for obvious synergy with something like TM1/Sacred12/F1 base, but there is precious little you can add on top without a lot of alignment switching. With alignment shift you could pull off TM2/F2/Sacred12/MD6

Now a slightly more interesting one would be Sacred12/F1/Ranger6+1 free level for either fighter, stalwart or monk. The latter is the most net gain, especially if you go without armor, but that'd add maybe a bit too much dipping to frontload, so I;d probably opt for oak+bracers for this one. Ranger would help to skip feats with menacing, so I guess it's not the worst non-sneak shield bash you could do.

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Zhally: Hi InEffect,

Thanks for all of the information you've put out regarding this game. I'm a newcomer to this game that's interested in doing a more RP-centric build with a human paladin that wears plate armor. I saw your monkadin build but would prefer not to wear robes from a RP perspective. How would you tweak your monkadin build to fit this? My initial thoughts would be to go Vivi 1 instead of the monk 1, and to grab improved unarmed at level 1 with the bonus human feat to still have access to crane. Thanks for taking the time to read this.
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InEffect: DG14/archae2/DD4 is what you want. With DG3/archae2/DD4 as a core build. DG will give you 4AC from casting shield on yourself(it's stupid, but you can do it) and archae2/DD4 will provide a UD, 2 feats and 3 AC. Good enough of a ramp to start with even for armor. Mythral plate would impose 25%ASF on you, but you can take it off for buffing out of combat, which is what you;d mainly do. I personally would opt for oak by midgame for that reason alone, but it's not so bad once you get used to it and 25% is not so crippling as to make it impossible to cast in combat. It's decent, comes online fast and overall won't make you feel terrible for playing paladin in a setting that has precious little evil enemies. For a weapon I'd go either greataxes for Vanquisher(duh) or oversized bastards for ovinrbaane/greater shock +5
Thank you very much for the response. What would the level progression for this build be like? Would we be trying to hit the DG3/archae2/DD4 core asap?
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Zhally: Thank you very much for the response. What would the level progression for this build be like? Would we be trying to hit the DG3/archae2/DD4 core asap?
Yes. I'd pretty much go in order. You would have DG3/Archae2 by 5 either way since you'd need arcana 5 for the DD. Spells don't matter much. You only really need mirror and remove fear. You can grab some heals and glitterdust, i guess.
The former would help on a rest and the latter is good against wisps.
Post edited May 28, 2020 by InEffect
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Zhally: Thank you very much for the response. What would the level progression for this build be like? Would we be trying to hit the DG3/archae2/DD4 core asap?
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InEffect: Yes. I'd pretty much go in order. You would have DG3/Archae2 by 5 either way since you'd need arcana 5 for the DD. Spells don't matter much. You only really need mirror and remove fear. You can grab some heals and glitterdust, i guess.
The former would help on a rest and the latter is good against wisps.
Thanks again. If I may ask you two more things:

1) What stat spread would you go for with this build? Something similar to the Monkadin build?

2) I tried to map out a level progression for this build with feats, I'd like to ask for your input on what to change:

Lvl 1: DG - Dodge / Improve Unarmed
Lvl 2: DG
Lvl 3: Archae - Crane Style
Lvl 4: Archae - Weapon Focus: GA
Lvl 5: DG - Outflank
Lvl 6: DD
Lvl 7: DD - Crane Wing / Power Attack
Lvl 8: DD
Lvl 9: DD - Dazzling Display
Lvl 10: DG
Lvl 11: DG - Shatter Defenses
Lvl 12: DG
Lvl 13: DG - Crane Riposte
Lvl 14: DG
Lvl 15: DG - Dreaful Carnage
Lvl 16: DG - Combat Reflexes? (Not sure what bonus feat to choose at all)
Lvl 17: DG - Intimidating Prowess
Lvl 18: DG
Lvl 19: DG - Blind Fight / Iron Will? (Again, not sure what bonus feat to go for)
Lvl 20: DG
I'd go for 19/13/14/7/8/16. Although most anything else would work. Like 18/13/14/12/8/15 would work if you don't like min/max.

Lvl 1: DG - Dodge / Improve Unarmed
Lvl 2: DG
Lvl 3: DG - Crane Style
Lvl 4: Archae -
Lvl 5: Archae - Outflank // Weapon Focus: GA
Lvl 6: DD
Lvl 7: DD - Crane Wing / Power Attack
Lvl 8: DD
Lvl 9: DD - Dazzling Display
Lvl 10: DG
Lvl 11: DG - Shatter Defenses
Lvl 12: DG
Lvl 13: DG - Intimidating(for skill-checks) // Reflexes
Lvl 14: DG
Lvl 15: DG - Cleave
Lvl 16: DG - Iron Will
Lvl 17: DG - Cleaving Finish
Lvl 18: DG
Lvl 19: DG - Crane Riposte // Improved Iron Will
Lvl 20: DG

I wouldn't take BF and carnage. The former is easily covered by a local alchemist's echolocation and you'd have a bard for the dirge so you don't need the latter. I'd take intimidating for high skill-checks of which intimidation is the vast majority, but you can swap it for whatever if you feel you'd need something. Piked iron will since will saves are the only thing that matters of the bunch.
Post edited May 29, 2020 by InEffect
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InEffect: Trip Vivisectionist

Race: Tiefling(Motherless)

Alignment: LG

Stats:
Str: 18 > 22
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 12
Wis: 17 > 18 @20
Cha: 7

Final Build: Monk(Sensei) 1/ Alchemist(Vivisectionist) 12 / Bard(Archaeologist) 2 / Dragon Disciple 4 / Magus(Sword Saint)

Main skills: Mobility 3, Persuasion (Max),
Suggested secondary skills: Perception (Max), Trickery(Spare)

Detailed leveling breakdown:
Lvl 1: Monk - Dodge // Crane Style
Lvl 2: Alchemist
Lvl 3: Alchemist - Combat Expertise(+2 int item) // Feral Mutagen
Lvl 4: Alchemist
Lvl 5: Alchemist - Trip // Combat Trick > Outflank
Lvl 6: Alchemist
Lvl 7: Alchemist - Crane Wing // Combat trick > Combat Reflexes
Lvl 8: Alchemist
Lvl 9: Magus - Dazzling Display // Chosen Weapon: Fauchard
Lvl 10: Alchemist - Combat Trick > Shatter Defenses
Lvl 11: Alchemist - Greater Trip
Lvl 12: Alchemist - Crippling Strike
Lvl 13: Alchemist - Improved Critical: Fauchard
Lvl 14: Alchemist - Greater Mutagen
Lvl 15: Bard - Fury’s Fall
Lvl 16: Bard - Opportunist
Lvl 17: Dragon Disciple - Crane Riposte*
Lvl 18: Dragon Disciple - Toughness*
Lvl 19: Dragon Disciple - Accomplished Sneak Attacker*
Lvl 20: Dragon Disciple
*Or Intimidating+power attack+dreadful carnage. Especially if you don't have someone to shatter.

Alchemist Spells: True strike, Shield, Restoration(Lesser), Stat spells, Haste, Displacement, Heroism, Echolocation, Greater invis,
Magus Spells: True Strike
Bard Spells: Remove fear, Cure Light wounds, Vanish, Mirror Image, Sense Vitals, Glitterdust.

Gear: monk robes, fauchard(Mastery), stat items, AC items, Monk robe, cloak of winter wolf, opportunist’s boots

A variation of trip vivisectionist. Lots of AB, lots of bites good damage, loads of AoO’s and so on.

Has sensei so you can drop a bard if you want to. You get at least some of it back. If you plan oh keeping a bard around - take traditional monk instead. Also would

Can Dazzle himself, but prefers not to.

Can make use of CE helm early-game.

Crane Wing/Riposte work with whatever on the current patch.


Credit to haplok for build concept. I just tossed things around a tiny bit to my preference, and streamlined the build notes. Posted it here mostly for reference.
Hi InEffect,
I wanted to tryout this build and I encountered a problem. When I pick the first Magus level I am supposed to choose a prefered Weapon (Fauchard). However I cannot pick the fauchard. It's red, although it doesn't say which prerequisite I am missing. Any idea what the problem might be?
Thx for all ur work, anyhow. Kur
it's either one of your mods or you are doing it wrong. Maybe you are confusing focus and favored weapon? Since it's the odd level you should go to the second tab, grab chosen weapon and then go to tab 1 for the dazzle.
Hi InEffect,

Back with another question regarding a RP-based build. I'm interested in doing a STR-based dual wielder with a pet. My question is - how many points into something like Sacred Huntsmaster would you need to have an okay-ish pet for the duration of the game? I'm thinking something like Fighter 9 / Monk 1 / Archae 2 / Vivi 4 would make for a capable enough dual wielder, but not sure if 4 into Sacred Huntsmaster would be enough for a capable enough pet. Thanks again for taking the time to read this!