Hey everyone, I am hoping to get some clarification on how skill upgrades work in Might and Magic 6. I have started this old school gem many times, but unfortunately was never able to get very deep into the game. Finally, I have committed myself to a full playthrough and have been doing very well so far. Currently I am running through all of the promotion quests and have been stacking a lot of levels I am getting ready to cash in. So, I have checked probably every Might and Magic 6 site that comes up in a google search for information but am still left with the following questions (I'll apologize up front for the long post):

1. For Weapons - 8 skill points are needed for Master rank of each weapon type. On the Tartarus website, it shows, for example, Sword, Master rank requires Cavalier rank. Does this mean that only a Cavalier can actually reach Master in Sword, or could I have a Paladin that completes the Cavalier promotion (thus gaining honorary title) reach Master level? Also, is a fully promoted Archer the only class that can shoot 2 arrows at Master or can everyone at Master Bow level?

2. For Armor - 10 skill points are needed for Master rank for each armor type. Same question as above using Chain as example. Chain Master rank requires Crusader rank, so can a Cleric with honorary Crusader status Master Chain?

3. For Magic - 12 skill points are needed for Master rank for each magic realm. Pretty much same question as above: example is Spirit saying High Priest rank is required, so could a Paladin or Druid with High Priest honorary status Master Spirit? I understand how the reputation factors work for Light and Dark magic as I have found information on that.

Now, a question about the above skill categories: Are there any benefits to raising skills above Master rank for weapons, armor, or magic? For example, after I reach Master rank in Sword, would raising the skill to 10 have any additional benefits? I know there are diminishing returns on attributes past certain numbers; do Skills work the same way? For example, if we assume that continuing to put points in Sword after Master rank continues to be beneficial, is there a point where it is a waste to adding more points? Maybe anymore than 20 points in Sword is useless because of diminishing returns or maybe it is 25? Maybe there is a calculation chart to calculate the returns? Also, would the calculations be the same for Weapons, Armor, and Magic or are they all different?



This next section will deal specifically with Other Skills:

1. Please correct me if I am wrong, but Master rank, 7 Skill points, for Perception, Disarm Trap, Repair Item, and ID Item are all that is required to effect the most difficult applications or each skill. For example, ID Item Master rank, 7 points ID's all items in the game? Repair Item, Master rank, 7 points, repairs the best armor in the game? Etc., etc., etc.

2. Now, from what I have read there are Other Skills that do benefit from having Master rank, but more than just 7 Skill points, for example Learning. Even the game shows this, as it states that 10 points at Master level gives a 39% exp bonus. So, is Learning the only Other Skill that is effected by this? Do Merchant, Bodybuilding, or Meditation benefit from more than 7 points, Master rank? If so, do they also have diminishing returns past a certain point? If so, and anyone knows the calculations, please provide if possible.


I realize how involved my post is, and again I apologize for it being so lengthy, but this will help me go a long way in understanding the game mechanics better. As I have stated, I tried to do my homework by looking at every site I could come across for Might and Magic 6 and still could not find the exact answers to the above questions. Thank you in advance for any responses and information that anyone in the Community can provide!

1. I don't remember for sword specifically (the skills aren't unified in 6, some require different number of points, some require ONLY a promotion (for example master air magic, master plate armor)). But you can definitely get master sword with a paladin that completes the cavalier quest. Any character that has master bow skill will shoot 2 arrows (archers aren't ironically better archers than other classes).

2. Same, you can get mastery if you can learn the skill. Also you don't need to invest more than 4 points in plate armor (expert + one of the promotion quests is enough to get master).

3. Same - if you can learn it, you can master it. And only 4 points are required for air magic (to get expert) and the teacher will teach you master rank when you get the archwizard (or whatever it's called) promotion. I think that spirit magic also requires only expert + quest.

For your next question - read what the skills do. There is definitely a point in investing more than 10 into a skill and there aren't diminishing returns. The only one is that is costs more and more.

1. Not entirely sure about this to be honest, but I think you may require more points than what's needed for mastery to repair/identify everything etc. Especially for merchant - he needs a lot of points to get 100% buy/sell prices.

2. Again, read the skills - body building, meditation give you bonus per point of skill, so yes, the bonus will get better when you go over 7. Again, no diminishing returns. I don't have the exact calculations - but the number of HP and SP you get per skill point is based directly on the class of the character and their promotion.

So, if I understand correctly, each rank in a skill continues to add to the Normal effect listed. Using Swords as an example, Normal rank = Skill added to bonus attack, Expert rank = Skill reduces recovery time, and Master rank = Permit use of sword in left hand. So, I understand that learning Expert has that specific effect, and Master likewise has its effect. But, every rank in Sword always adds the Normal effect of bonus attack. For example, increasing Sword rank from rank 10 to 11 simply adds an additional 1 point of bonus attack? Am I interpreting that correctly?

Thank you for the information. I really appreciate it. Also, very cool avatar! I used to play Warcraft 2 for hours on end back in the day :)

You get bonuses from ALL the acquired mastery levels, meaning going from 10 -> 11 (expert or master) will give you bonus attack and faster recovery. It would give you only attack bonus if you were still normal level only.

Excellent, that's way better than just getting the Normal effect bonus! Thank you again for all of your help!

I think Jann has pretty much covered everything:
-In MM6, if you can learn the skill, you can master it. If mastery requires a promotion quest (ex. Cavalier), then becoming Honorary X is good enough.

-Not every skill requires having X skill points in the skill to master it (ex. Air, Spirit, Axe can be mastered with only 4 points, if you complete the other requirements).

-The perks per point are based on your current skill points in the skill. So Lightning Bolt will continue to do more damage with more ranks, but it will cost more and more of skill points to get another rank (25 skill points to go from rank 24 to rank 25). Note that mastery perks that aren't based on the number of skill points (like using a sword in the off hand) won't increase in power with more ranks (you can either use a sword in your off hand, or you can't).

-I don't know the highest ranks required to do everything with Perception, Disarm Trap, Repair Item, and ID Item. I'd say just leave them at minimum for Master, and buy ranks when you find yourself failing when using the skill. However, the Telekinesis spell can fill in for Disarm Trap (if there is enough space to back away and still target the chest), and you could use Llyod's Beacon and Town Portal to hop to town to id/repair equipment if necessary (annoying, but possible).

-Learning, Bodybuilding, and Meditation all continue to provide more benefit with more ranks. Merchant can (until you are buying and selling at cost, anyway), but I'd suggest leaving it at the minimum ranks for Master; you'll have plenty of gold later in the game anyway. I think the ranks per skill only aid the weapon the skill is used for. So dual wielding an axe and a sword means you have two skills to advance, instead of one. Pro and Con there: if you dual wield the same weapon type, then all of your points can advance that weapon, but it might be more expensive (in skill points) than raising two separate weapons to a moderate level.

Thank you both for all of the information. I have a much better grasp on how to spend my skill points now. I'm very appreciative for all of the explanations for skills. It's interesting to me that so many websites are devoted to this old school gem, but none of them really discuss specific strategies on how to distribute points, for example how high to raise a skill to. I did find one guide that offered suggestions with specific numbers, but to be honest I didn't really agree with their point distribution. At first I was thinking that just putting enough points into a skill to master it was the only benefit but I am thrilled to know that the additional points continue to add benefits.

I am going to continue the game and eventually will post back to let everyone know whether 7 points and master is enough for the secondary skills to accomplish everything through the end game (i.e. 7 master ID item actually identifying every item in the game).

With such great responses, I am hoping other people can check this discussion if they run into the same questions I had. The responses were very specific, and again very helpful.

Thanks again and happy gaming to everyone!

I'm curious. What was the suggested point distribution? You might need a few more ranks for identifying and repairing relics and artifacts. Beyond that, 7 should be able to get you through the game alright.

As far as other skills, I suggest only selecting one weapon skill per character (perhaps two for a knight, depending on whether/what you want to dual wield). Don't bother putting points into weapon skills beyond what you plan to use that character for (so only add ranks to Dagger OR Staff for a sorcerer, not both). Likewise, select the strongest armor skill available to each character and raise it to master. A Knight should take care of all misc skills; if you don't have a knight, then split them among the rest of the party (with primary casters (Sorcerer, Cleric, Druid) taking less of the load, so they can focus on magic). Don't bother putting any points in Diplomacy; it isn't a worthwhile skill.

Since no one has properly explained dual wielding yet, I shall do so. First off, in the original game, dual wielding is useless because it adds the recovery times of both weapons together to actually make you slower (although damage and attack are added as well). There is a nice patch by a fellow named Grayface that fixes this to make it more like in MM7 and 8.

With his patch installed, the recovery time is dependant on the slowest base weapon. The base recovery time of the sword is slower than the mace or spear. Thus, if you're dual wielding those with a sword, the recovery time of the sword is used. You can lower this recovery time by spending skill points in the sword skill (the lowest you can go with a melee weapon is 30. If you're using an "of recovery" item it's 27). Even when the sword actually becomes faster than the other weapon because of skill points invested, it will continue to use the sword skill to determine your recovery time - because the weapon's base speed is slower.

So, when dual wielding either with or without Grayface's patch, improving the sword skill will lower your recovery time and increase your attack. Improving the spear/mace skill will increase your damage (and whatever else the skill does).

Edit: some minor corrections after reviewing Grayface's site again (see my next post).

Yeah I once played MM6 without the patch while dual wielding. Those were some long waiting times :D

I haven't ever got to 27 recovery time even with the recovery enchantment. Are you sure about that? Or is it hidden? Because I don't think it is, when I equip such an item I can see how much the recovery goes down.

Also sword is one of the fastest weapons and gets even faster with skill (I think that only daggers are faster) - maces, axes are definitely slower and spears are the same (at base level). Speed seems to be the point of using a sword as it doesn't even have damage increase from skill.

Also about the skill points investment when dual wielding. I just tested it quickly - had spear in main hand, sword in off hand, both at 12pts. It seems you don't need to keep them at the same level, but I found out something weird. When increasing the sword skill, I got both the attack and speed bonus, but when increasing the spear skill, I only got the damage/AC bonus and not the attack. I tried both having higher sword skill and taking the spear skill up to match it and having the spear skill over the sword one. The attack bonus from the spear skill just wouldn't work when dual wielding.

Unfortunately, I cannot at this point post a link, but you might want to read Grayface's notes on this. Google Grayface Might and Magic and find the "game mechanics" page on his site.

There's not much difference between the weapons, but the sword itself is 10 points slower than spear and mace. Axe is slower than the sword, but not recommended to use anyway.

For clarity, "of recovery" in Might and Magic 6 lowers your recovery time by 10% of what it was without the item, rounded up. So if you had 40 recovery time, you now have 36. So if you would normally have 30, it turns it into 27. It also works with ranged weapons, but like I said it's rounded up. Meaning you can't turn a blaster's recovery time of 5 into 4, making the enchantment probably useless when you get to that point.

Note that "of recovery" works differently in MM7 and 8 (in those games, it only reduces recovery time from getting hit by an enemy), and that the enchantment did nothing at all in MM6 until Grayface fixed it.

It seems I was slightly wrong about dual wielding when it comes to attack and damage added by skills. Apparently, only one skill can add to those. In MM6, main hand weapon skill adds damage and second hand weapon skill adds attack. In MM7 and 8, second hand weapon skill adds both damage and attack (and investing in the sword skill is even better as a result).

What I meant with the recovery is that the cap is 30 (though it might be with the patch only). I know it makes it 10% faster.

Didn't know sword was one of the slower weapons (I'm not 100% convinced though, will check it myself later :D) - what would the point of it be then? Off-handing, I guess. But there are 2h swords as well, so those are just bad?

I'd say pick a weapon class you like, and roll with it. Just assign different weapons to different characters, so you can use the best of what you find, not the 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. best of what you find.

Of course, if you enjoy trying to improve your characters at that level of detail, then go for it (and more power to you). It isn't my thing, and it isn't necessary in this game, but I'm not going to complain if someone else prefers to run more optimization than I do.

Swords are among the worst weapons in MM 6 - and it isn't because of their speed. Dual-wielding bonus won't scale as well as other weapon skills after you invested 12+ skill points.