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Master of MagicUnofficial 'Insecticide' patch(155 posts)(155 posts)
(155 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 28, 2016
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ast486: One MAJOR problem caused by the unofficial patch version N is that the melee units behind the walls will run OUTSIDE to engage the enemies, instead of sitting inside where they are relatively safe.

This patch does not fix the base problem included in the gog version of MoM either... that problem is that EVERY other wizard on the map turns hostile after 10 turns, no matter what allied/friendly state they were in and without me doing ANYTHING to provoke them.
I don't understand why this version of MoM was ever even sold, since it's so screwed up!
Looks like you may have been experiencing one of the patch's changes (the combat one, at least)

1.40m
- [bug] AI will now always attack aggressively
I don't know, I reverted a few AI changes by hand as was suggested in the Insecticide thread, and I can't remember being affected by it ever since.

Yes, as much as I respect kyrub's work, his patch does seem to have problems. Surely less than the original game, but still.

I would suggest taking a look at patch 1.50 by Seravy, which has separated itself from Caster of Magic. Patch 1.51 is currently in development.
http://masterofmagic.wikia.com/wiki/Unofficial_Patch_1.50

You might appreciate a complete rewrite of the diplomacy code. It was a complete mess in the vanilla game.

Perhaps this could be the next definitive edition of the game.
Post edited October 28, 2016 by nevill
Posted October 28, 2016
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ast486: One MAJOR problem caused by the unofficial patch version N is that the melee units behind the walls will run OUTSIDE to engage the enemies, instead of sitting inside where they are relatively safe.

This patch does not fix the base problem included in the gog version of MoM either... that problem is that EVERY other wizard on the map turns hostile after 10 turns, no matter what allied/friendly state they were in and without me doing ANYTHING to provoke them.
I don't understand why this version of MoM was ever even sold, since it's so screwed up!
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nevill: Looks like you may have been experiencing one of the patch's changes (the combat one, at least)

1.40m
- [bug] AI will now always attack aggressively
avatar
nevill: I don't know, I reverted a few AI changes by hand as was suggested in the Insecticide thread, and I can't remember being affected by it ever since.

Yes, as much as I respect kyrub's work, his patch does seem to have problems. Supposedly less then the original game, but still.

I would suggest taking a look at patch 1.50 by Seravy, which has separated itself from Caster of Magic. Patch 1.51 is currently in development.
http://masterofmagic.wikia.com/wiki/Unofficial_Patch_1.50

You might appreciate a complete rewrite of the diplomacy code. It was a complete mess in the vanilla game.

Perhaps this could be the next definitive edition of the game.
I remember trying out the gog version of MoM when it first came out and it already had them all attacking me constantly.
I wonder if they included the unofficial patch in their d/l?
It certainly didn't have a bloated help file when I d/l'ed it this time, like some have talked about here.

I'll take a look at the other patch you suggested.
Thanks :-)
Posted October 28, 2016
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ast486: I remember trying out the gog version of MoM when it first came out and it already had them all attacking me constantly.
I wonder if they included the unofficial patch in their d/l?
It certainly didn't have a bloated help file when I d/l'ed it this time, like some have talked about here.

I'll take a look at the other patch you suggested.
Thanks :-)
If by "unofficial patch" you mean "Insecticide", then no, that is not in the basic GOG version. GOG is updated to 1.31 (which was official), and I believe the AI is more aggressive in 1.31 than in the CD version (or at least in my CD version; I don't know if there were different CDs with different versions of the game).

Unless you specifically look for the file sizes between original (1.0 or w/e) and latest official patch, you'll probably never notice any bloat in the help file.
Posted October 28, 2016
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ast486: I remember trying out the gog version of MoM when it first came out and it already had them all attacking me constantly.
I wonder if they included the unofficial patch in their d/l?
It certainly didn't have a bloated help file when I d/l'ed it this time, like some have talked about here.

I'll take a look at the other patch you suggested.
Thanks :-)
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Bookwyrm627: If by "unofficial patch" you mean "Insecticide", then no, that is not in the basic GOG version. GOG is updated to 1.31 (which was official), and I believe the AI is more aggressive in 1.31 than in the CD version (or at least in my CD version; I don't know if there were different CDs with different versions of the game).

Unless you specifically look for the file sizes between original (1.0 or w/e) and latest official patch, you'll probably never notice any bloat in the help file.
Thanks for the info.
So that whole going hostile after 10 turns nonsense was built into 1.31. :-(
Posted October 28, 2016
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Bookwyrm627: If by "unofficial patch" you mean "Insecticide", then no, that is not in the basic GOG version. GOG is updated to 1.31 (which was official), and I believe the AI is more aggressive in 1.31 than in the CD version (or at least in my CD version; I don't know if there were different CDs with different versions of the game).

Unless you specifically look for the file sizes between original (1.0 or w/e) and latest official patch, you'll probably never notice any bloat in the help file.
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ast486: Thanks for the info.
So that whole going hostile after 10 turns nonsense was built into 1.31. :-(
There are AI bugs, and the AI was never particularly strong anyway. For example, a computer opponent was supposed to be more aggressive if you and it shared cities on the same continent, but I've read that this is bugged and it happens if you DON'T share a continent. Also, the computers will form alliances, and they WILL declare war on you if you are at war with their ally (so if any of them suddenly get irked by your mere existence, he'll get his buddies to declare war too).

Out of curiosity, is that 10 turn timer a literal or figurative timer?

Edit: And yes, the AI is pretty erratic about declaring war. It isn't always very effective in prosecuting the war afterward, but it will declare for seemingly no reason.
Post edited October 28, 2016 by Bookwyrm627
Posted October 29, 2016
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ast486: Thanks for the info.
So that whole going hostile after 10 turns nonsense was built into 1.31. :-(
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Bookwyrm627: There are AI bugs, and the AI was never particularly strong anyway. For example, a computer opponent was supposed to be more aggressive if you and it shared cities on the same continent, but I've read that this is bugged and it happens if you DON'T share a continent. Also, the computers will form alliances, and they WILL declare war on you if you are at war with their ally (so if any of them suddenly get irked by your mere existence, he'll get his buddies to declare war too).

Out of curiosity, is that 10 turn timer a literal or figurative timer?

Edit: And yes, the AI is pretty erratic about declaring war. It isn't always very effective in prosecuting the war afterward, but it will declare for seemingly no reason.
In the base game that I have from gog it is literally ten turns.
I counted it happening several times in a row when I first got the gog version of MoM.
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nevill: I would suggest taking a look at patch 1.50 by Seravy, which has separated itself from Caster of Magic. Patch 1.51 is currently in development.
http://masterofmagic.wikia.com/wiki/Unofficial_Patch_1.50

You might appreciate a complete rewrite of the diplomacy code. It was a complete mess in the vanilla game.

Perhaps this could be the next definitive edition of the game.
Well I tried playing it with the 1.5 patch, as you suggested and it did fix both the issues I listed before.

Sadly now I've noticed a major issue in 1.5: EVERYTHING with a special attack (fire breath, thrown, etc) can attack air without being attacked first by them. :-s
That doesn't make sense, nor was it intended with the original game.
Post edited October 29, 2016 by ast486
Posted October 29, 2016
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ast486: Sadly now I've noticed a major issue in 1.5: EVERYTHING with a special attack (fire breath, thrown, etc) can attack air without being attacked first by them. :-s
That doesn't make sense, nor was it intended with the original game.
Unless I'm misunderstanding you, this is original game behaviour. Fire breath and thrown attacks have always allowed a ground unit to attack a flyer. Apparently Bagtru has a great throwing arm.

There is a minor bug (in Insecticide, but I think also in original), that units with a useless ranged attack (such as archers against guardian wind, or shaman against magic immunity), who normally sit quietly instead of wasting shots, will attempt to attack air units by melee when adjacent - they do no damage, since they don't have a special attack that can reach, but they do of course take damage! Oh, and I see that's fixed in 1.5.
Post edited October 29, 2016 by legraf
Posted October 29, 2016
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ast486: Sadly now I've noticed a major issue in 1.5: EVERYTHING with a special attack (fire breath, thrown, etc) can attack air without being attacked first by them. :-s
That doesn't make sense, nor was it intended with the original game.
I think you'd also appreciate the link to MoM wiki which describes the game mechanics in great detail. In particular, here is the description of Fire Breath:
http://masterofmagic.wikia.com/wiki/Fire_Breath
Also note that Fire Breath allows a ground unit to initiate Melee Attacks against Flying Units, even if said units are immune to fire.
Makes sense or not, this was always in the game.

Similarly,
http://masterofmagic.wikia.com/wiki/Thrown_Attack
Possession of a Thrown Attack allows a Walking or Swimming unit to attack any enemy Flying unit.
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legraf: There is a minor bug (in Insecticide, but I think also in original), that units with a useless ranged attack (such as archers against guardian wind, or shaman against magic immunity), who normally sit quietly instead of wasting shots, will attempt to attack air units by melee when adjacent - they do no damage, since they don't have a special attack that can reach, but they do of course take damage! Oh, and I see that's fixed in 1.5.
It's because the game does not differentiate between similar units. If you cast a web on a sprite, the game will know a sprite is downed, but would not know which. That causes it to try attacking the closest one, even though it may be flying.

Edit:
AI walking units will no longer attack flying units during combat if such an attack is impossible (337)
It did get fixed. Hm, I wonder how...

Edit2: From the patch notes:
; Disables two "features" that alter the selected target after the actual selection process is done.
; 1. When multiple units of the same type are present, always attack the nearest one.
; Distance is considered in the normal target selection process so this is somewhat unnecessary
; however, causes a bug because the closer target might fly when the other isn't and was valid!
; 2. When multiple units try to attack the same type of target, they all attack the same target.
; Mass attacking the same target is a good tactic, but chances are, it will be selected for
; all units that can reach it this turn anyway. Those that cannot, should stick to attacking another one that's close enough.
; Additionaly, probably also bugs out on flying units, if one of the AI's flyer selects a target that's flying,
; all other, walking, units will copy the target if there was another, nonflying instance of it (black sleep/web) targeted.
Post edited October 29, 2016 by nevill
Posted October 29, 2016
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ast486: Sadly now I've noticed a major issue in 1.5: EVERYTHING with a special attack (fire breath, thrown, etc) can attack air without being attacked first by them. :-s
That doesn't make sense, nor was it intended with the original game.
avatar
nevill: I think you'd also appreciate the link to MoM wiki which describes the game mechanics in great detail. In particular, here is the description of Fire Breath:
http://masterofmagic.wikia.com/wiki/Fire_Breath

Also note that Fire Breath allows a ground unit to initiate Melee Attacks against Flying Units, even if said units are immune to fire.
avatar
nevill: Makes sense or not, this was always in the game.

Similarly,
http://masterofmagic.wikia.com/wiki/Thrown_Attack

Possession of a Thrown Attack allows a Walking or Swimming unit to attack any enemy Flying unit.
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nevill:
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legraf: There is a minor bug (in Insecticide, but I think also in original), that units with a useless ranged attack (such as archers against guardian wind, or shaman against magic immunity), who normally sit quietly instead of wasting shots, will attempt to attack air units by melee when adjacent - they do no damage, since they don't have a special attack that can reach, but they do of course take damage! Oh, and I see that's fixed in 1.5.
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nevill: It's because the game does not differentiate between similar units. If you cast a web on a sprite, the game will know a sprite is downed, but would not know which. That causes it to try attacking the closest one, even though it may be flying.
It looks like those wiki pages are based on the gog version of the game. IE 1.31.
I know the original, cd version did not work that way.... I dunno why they changed it. :-s
Posted October 29, 2016
Are you sure you aren't misremembering it? It's been 20 years, after all.

I've downloaded the 1.00 vanilla files (a very different beast from 1.31 indeed - ranged units could attack twice per turn like melee ones, and Magic Servants were not incorporeal, having 1 land move only. That's what I noticed with only a cursory glance), and started a game with Tauron and barbarians. Both barbarian units with Throwing and Hell Hounds with Fire Breath could snipe enemy Sprites out of the sky.

I believe this always was in the game, and never changed.
Post edited October 29, 2016 by nevill
Posted October 30, 2016
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nevill: Are you sure you aren't misremembering it? It's been 20 years, after all.

I've downloaded the 1.00 vanilla files (a very different beast from 1.31 indeed - ranged units could attack twice per turn like melee ones, and Magic Servants were not incorporeal, having 1 land move only. That's what I noticed with only a cursory glance), and started a game with Tauron and barbarians. Both barbarian units with Throwing and Hell Hounds with Fire Breath could snipe enemy Sprites out of the sky.

I believe this always was in the game, and never changed.
I suppose it's possible that I just didn't notice them do it before. X-D
Posted May 26, 2017
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ast486: One MAJOR problem caused by the unofficial patch version N is that the melee units behind the walls will run OUTSIDE to engage the enemies, instead of sitting inside where they are relatively safe.

This patch does not fix the base problem included in the gog version of MoM either... that problem is that EVERY other wizard on the map turns hostile after 10 turns, no matter what allied/friendly state they were in and without me doing ANYTHING to provoke them.
I don't understand why this version of MoM was ever even sold, since it's so screwed up!
avatar
nevill: Looks like you may have been experiencing one of the patch's changes (the combat one, at least)

1.40m
- [bug] AI will now always attack aggressively
avatar
nevill: I don't know, I reverted a few AI changes by hand as was suggested in the Insecticide thread, and I can't remember being affected by it ever since.

Yes, as much as I respect kyrub's work, his patch does seem to have problems. Surely less than the original game, but still.

I would suggest taking a look at patch 1.50 by Seravy, which has separated itself from Caster of Magic. Patch 1.51 is currently in development.
http://masterofmagic.wikia.com/wiki/Unofficial_Patch_1.50

You might appreciate a complete rewrite of the diplomacy code. It was a complete mess in the vanilla game.

Perhaps this could be the next definitive edition of the game.
In patch 1.5 does anyone know if it still has books in the 'Nodes'? Haven't found any yet.
Posted May 26, 2017
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mstamps: In patch 1.5 does anyone know if it still has books in the 'Nodes'? Haven't found any yet.
Is the magic setting high enough to generate treasure (and guards) of that level? Are you cracking nodes in Myrror?
Posted September 04, 2017
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mstamps: In patch 1.5 does anyone know if it still has books in the 'Nodes'? Haven't found any yet.
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Bookwyrm627: Is the magic setting high enough to generate treasure (and guards) of that level? Are you cracking nodes in Myrror?
I heard a rumor it still had the correct treasures.

I need to ask a favor. I used to be able to program in DOS a long time ago. Simple things. But I need help now getting the 1.5 patch into the GOG MOM files. I can't even find the files. I did nothing special in the installation.

Did anyone do the favor of writing a windows installation to just overwrite the files? That shouldn't have been so difficult for someone to program. And the files are so small as to not really require compression.

Can anyone help me get this version of the game?

Sorry for my lack of current DOS abilities.
Posted September 05, 2017
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Bookwyrm627: Is the magic setting high enough to generate treasure (and guards) of that level? Are you cracking nodes in Myrror?
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cggj: I heard a rumor it still had the correct treasures.

I need to ask a favor. I used to be able to program in DOS a long time ago. Simple things. But I need help now getting the 1.5 patch into the GOG MOM files. I can't even find the files. I did nothing special in the installation.

Did anyone do the favor of writing a windows installation to just overwrite the files? That shouldn't have been so difficult for someone to program. And the files are so small as to not really require compression.

Can anyone help me get this version of the game?

Sorry for my lack of current DOS abilities.
Which is the 1.5 patch? Are you talking about Insecticide, Castor (Caster?) of Magic, or something else?

Which OS are you using? I haven't used Insecticide or CoM, but I imagine you can just drag and drop the files into the relevant locations.
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This is my favourite topic
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Master of MagicUnofficial 'Insecticide' patch(155 posts)(155 posts)
(155 posts)