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A little back-story about myself: As much as I love gaming I am a chronic procrastinator and I hardly ever finish them. Knowing this I tend to always play on easy or try to complete it the 'best' way (earn the 'good' endings) on the first playthrough.

I love RPGs and love both Baldur's Gate (which I still have yet to finish) and Icewind Dale and want to finish them both before getting the second part of both series. I have restarted Icewind Dale twice after reaching the Temple of the Forgotten Gods because of the giants and mages in there. My first mistake was apparently focusing on 'offensive' spells for my mage since 'crowd control' and 'buffs' would be better against the mobs in the Temple.

I did more research and more research, trying to find the best party for me but I've become so picky now that I want every role filled in just six slots. I read it was best to multi-class as many roles as possible so I dumped most of my pure classes. I read the bard is ridiculously over-powered because of Heart of Winter but, although others have argued it removes the challenge, I don't mind. I'll be honest, I like an easy game and would turn up the difficulty only if I find it too easy or after beating it the first time.

My current party consists of:
Human Paladin - Which I really didn't want but read he made a good tank.

Human Pure class Fighter - Which was supposed to be my back up tank but want to make my main tank. I also heard it was best to leave him pure class to make him stronger.

Human Fighter / Cleric - Which was one of the pure classes I dumped because it was advisable to do so. Now I've heard Ranger / Clerics are better and I'm thinking of dumping her for one, but do they get to use swords along with Bows or just Maces and Slings?

Half-Elf Druid - I like druids and I love their nature spells. I really want to keep a druid.

Elf Multi-Class Thief / Mage - I heard that a thief is NEEDED in this game and, after all the traps I've unintentionally tripped even with 'Find Traps' active I know that I'm going to need one. The thief was another pure-class I dropped after reading that a pure thief is a wasted character slot since they are easily multi-classable. I also read I could make my main Tank a Fighter / Thief since he will be in front anyway and would be better at finding traps than the thief in the back row. I'm thinking of dumping this character for the Bard.

Gnome Cleric / Illusionist - I read that it was best to have a pure mage to make the most of spell learning and spell slots, then I read that a multi-class mage is viable so now I`m so confused. I don't think I even needed this character since I already had a Cleric, Druid and Paladin and I also read that having more than one mage was redundant in this game since spells were difficult to come by. I was also thinking of dropping this character for the Bard.


I've never had this problem with Baldur's Gate because I never did so much researching about it before playing it and I hate myself for taking all the fun out of Icewind Dale because now it no longer feels like a game, but a chore.

Can anyone give me any pointers about my party setup? I really don't want to have to start over again after this one and I promise not to make the same mistake with Icewind Dale 2.

Also, should I have high dexterity on my Tank for dodging? And should I trade the bows and arrows on my front line fighters with slings so they can equip shields? I know it sounds silly not having them equip shields in the first place but bows seem to do more damage and most mobs die before they even reach my party.
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TheCuddlyOne: My current party consists of:
Human Paladin - Which I really didn't want but read he made a good tank.

Human Pure class Fighter - Which was supposed to be my back up tank but want to make my main tank. I also heard it was best to leave him pure class to make him stronger.

Human Fighter / Cleric - Which was one of the pure classes I dumped because it was advisable to do so. Now I've heard Ranger / Clerics are better and I'm thinking of dumping her for one, but do they get to use swords along with Bows or just Maces and Slings?

Half-Elf Druid - I like druids and I love their nature spells. I really want to keep a druid.

Elf Multi-Class Thief / Mage - I heard that a thief is NEEDED in this game and, after all the traps I've unintentionally tripped even with 'Find Traps' active I know that I'm going to need one. The thief was another pure-class I dropped after reading that a pure thief is a wasted character slot since they are easily multi-classable. I also read I could make my main Tank a Fighter / Thief since he will be in front anyway and would be better at finding traps than the thief in the back row. I'm thinking of dumping this character for the Bard.

Gnome Cleric / Illusionist - I read that it was best to have a pure mage to make the most of spell learning and spell slots, then I read that a multi-class mage is viable so now I`m so confused. I don't think I even needed this character since I already had a Cleric, Druid and Paladin and I also read that having more than one mage was redundant in this game since spells were difficult to come by. I was also thinking of dropping this character for the Bard.


I've never had this problem with Baldur's Gate because I never did so much researching about it before playing it and I hate myself for taking all the fun out of Icewind Dale because now it no longer feels like a game, but a chore.

Can anyone give me any pointers about my party setup? I really don't want to have to start over again after this one and I promise not to make the same mistake with Icewind Dale 2.
You'll get a different answer from each person you ask as to what's the optimal party. It really depends on your playstyle and personal preferences. Nothing wrong at all with the party you've outlined. Having said that...

I'd personally go with:

1: Paladin (Human, of course)- there are a couple of convo options that can net you more experience, and they get the best weapon in the game. Paladins make excellent tanks as well.

2: Bard (1/2 Elf)- some excellent songs, decent as an archer, and they can serve as a very competent secondary arcane caster. They also get exclusive access to options in a quest right at the beginning that basically can double the XP award of that quest.

3: Fighter (Human) dual class to Druid later - there is one minor quest early on that can be solved on the spot by a Druid (although it can be resolved without one a bit later). As you noted,t hey have awesome spells. Depending on how late you're willing to wait, I'd dual at either level 3, 6, or 7. Level 3 gets you an extra pip in a weapon type (I'd choose large swords if you're using animal forms, as the proficiency pips in scimitars applies to the attacks in shape shifted form as well - for the bear, I think). Level 6 gets you a fourth pip. Level 7 gets you the extra 1/2 attack.

4: Gnome Fighter/Thief - Gnomes are able to wear an excellent helm that's restricted to only the small races. Thieves aren't essential, but I never go without one. I find it a pain in the backside to bash locked containers (or waste spell slots for them) or take needless damage from traps. Many people consider a pure thief to be a waste, but I think they can definitely be viable (check out the backstabbing wonder that Cbarchuk has in his party as reported in the 'No Reload' thread). However, I like to go with the F/T multiclass,as you get access to more weapon types, better HPs, specialization, shields, and better armor choices (if you want to use them). Can make an excellent secondary tank as well.

5: Elf Mage - Elves can start with 19 DEX, which helps your ranged attacks (which is what a mage generally uses). If you're taking a Bard, you can go with a specialist, since the Bard can cover the school that's barred to the specialist mage. However, I'd suggest you go with Human if you're thinking of a specialist, since Elves are restricted to Enchanters (barred from a lot of good attack spells) or Diviners (can't summon).

6: Either a Fighter (Human) Dual class to Cleric, or Human Ranger, dual class to Cleric. Either way is good, but if you go the Ranger route, it's best to go without using a shield, since Rangers get an extra attack per round when not using a shield.

Remember, this is what I'd do. It's not necessarily better or worse than what you've laid out. But for my playing style, this is pretty much the optimal party (and I've tried a lot of different combinations).
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TheCuddlyOne: Also, should I have high dexterity on my Tank for dodging? And should I trade the bows and arrows on my front line fighters with slings so they can equip shields? I know it sounds silly not having them equip shields in the first place but bows seem to do more damage and most mobs die before they even reach my party.
Yes on the high DEX. It doesn't help with any type of Dodge mechanic (there isn't one in the game), but it grants you better AC (and this applies no matter what armor you wear). As for slings, they get your damage modifier from high STR added to the damage, so I always go with a sling with a warrior that has high STR and uses a shield.

***Edit*** Oh, one other thing to consider for that 6th slot: if you have a Bard, you likely won't need a Cleric for healing, since the Bard gets that awesome Song of the Sith. So you can opt to forgo the Cleric altogether (but you'll miss out on the nice buffs). You could fill that slot with another tank ( pure Dwarf tank is awesome), or whatever else strikes your fancy.
Post edited October 20, 2011 by Coelocanth
Thank you for taking the time to give such a detailed response. You've given me quite a bit to think about. I was dead set on dropping the Paladin for certain because, like you outlined, it's about personal playstyle and preference, and my personal playstyle can't stand Lawful Good characters. I always disliked Paladins because they were locked into that alignment. Is their ultimate weapon that necessary? I mean, if it's the best weapon in the game then it must be worth it right? And I guess a self-sufficient tank is more energy and cost-effective than stocking potions and designating a cleric to tank-healing duty instead of buffing.

Regarding the Dual-class Fighter / Druid, I read it was always better to do so at earlier levels (level 2 or 3) for spell-casters or they lose out on powerful spells at later levels due to the experience cap. Does this apply to the Druid as well? I don't mind waiting until level 7 but I don't want to miss out on any great spells.

I agree, I can't see myself without a thief, especially for this game. I've come across so many traps it would be irresponsible of me to have a party without a thief. I've never learned how to backstab, I think I have to check the manual again on that. I'll definitely give the 'No Reload' topic a read. It just might help me further. The only thing is I don't think gnomes can use bows (maybe shortbows). Sorry if I seem to be obsessing over bows but it's so easy to find arrows I hardly have to leave a dungeon to restock on ammunition.

I'm definitely going to trade the Fighter / Cleric for the Ranger / Cleric and see how that goes. My current cleric never could take a hit very well and spent most of her time using ranged attacks anyway.

*Sigh* I still don't know what to do about a mage and I'm still not sure if I want, or need, more than one. Since I'm having a bard regardless then your recommendation for a specialist mage would solve that problem. I have a thing for making my mages elves but if a specialist human is preferable then I don't mind either way.

I never paid much attention to Dex as a stat for my Tank. I've tried reading the D & D rules but its so math heavy I have trouble grasping it. I spent quite a bit of time trying to wrap my head around AC and I think I get the gist of how that works now, I just never realized that Dexterity factors into it. I only grasped that the lower the AC the better and (contrary to what I thought the first time I played) negative numbers are a good thing.

You see, we never had Dungeons and Dragons in my country during the height of its popularity because of all the demonizing from the media so they never imported it to our country. I'm sure if I grew up with the game I would have a better understanding of it now. I'm a little depressed I missed out on such a great culture because of a gross misconception about such an amazing board game, and my household didn't have the internet or even a computer until I was 17. I'm just glad I get to experience it now. The only problem is that modern RPGs tend to hold your hand so my first impression going into these older games is that they hate me and do not want me to succeed. Ha ha.

Anyway, I say all that so you don't think I'm stupid or ignorant or anything, I've just never had any official exposure to Dungeons and Dragons or the rules until I bought these games.
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TheCuddlyOne: Thank you for taking the time to give such a detailed response. You've given me quite a bit to think about. I was dead set on dropping the Paladin for certain because, like you outlined, it's about personal playstyle and preference, and my personal playstyle can't stand Lawful Good characters. I always disliked Paladins because they were locked into that alignment. Is their ultimate weapon that necessary? I mean, if it's the best weapon in the game then it must be worth it right? And I guess a self-sufficient tank is more energy and cost-effective than stocking potions and designating a cleric to tank-healing duty instead of buffing.
It's the best weapon and con only be wielded by Paladins, but is it necessary? No, not at all. In fact, I'm playing a modded game and that weapon doesn't even show up. I have to use the console to 'cheat' it in (I know where it's supposed to be, so I cheat it in when i get to that spot if I want it). But that's quite close to the end of the game, so that's something to consider as well.

I've played through many times without a Paladin (I don't particularly like them either), so you can drop the Pally if it suits you. No worries there. I confess I'm one of those 'completion' junkies that wants to feel they've done, found, and explored everything and have soaked every last bit of XP out of the game. So that's why I decided to take a Pally lately.

The only reason I'd keep him is if you want that weapon, but as noted, it's found late in the game. However, if you plan on taking that same party through the HoW expansion, then it will be much more useful. Again though, not necessary. There are plenty of other good weapons to be found.
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TheCuddlyOne: Regarding the Dual-class Fighter / Druid, I read it was always better to do so at earlier levels (level 2 or 3) for spell-casters or they lose out on powerful spells at later levels due to the experience cap. Does this apply to the Druid as well? I don't mind waiting until level 7 but I don't want to miss out on any great spells.
It's definitely a trade-off, as the longer you wait, obviously the longer you'll have to go without Druid spells. I can't recall for sure if you'd get to higher level Druid spells (I play on Insane which gives double XP awards for monsters and quests, so you level faster). I do believe though that if you wait until level 7 to dual class, you won't get access to your Fighter abilities back until almost the end of the game. Probably the best time to dual class is at level 3.

If you really want to wait until level 6 or 7, you can always farm Cold Wights in Dragon's Eye (you just rest on the level where they're common and they'll appear about 4 out of 5 times to interrupt your resting) until you get to level 8 Druid so you get your Fighter abilities back. They're worth round 1400 XP each, so you can level up a low level character pretty fast if you farm those guys. But that's a bit of an exploit and it can get tedious. I did this once with a party that included 4 Fighters that all dual classed at level 9. I probably wouldn't bother doing that again.
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TheCuddlyOne: I agree, I can't see myself without a thief, especially for this game. I've come across so many traps it would be irresponsible of me to have a party without a thief. I've never learned how to backstab, I think I have to check the manual again on that. I'll definitely give the 'No Reload' topic a read. It just might help me further. The only thing is I don't think gnomes can use bows (maybe shortbows). Sorry if I seem to be obsessing over bows but it's so easy to find arrows I hardly have to leave a dungeon to restock on ammunition.
I was all about bows as well, but I found it such a pain in the backside to switch the shield in and out all the time, so I switched to slings. I usually have one bow user (generally the Bard character, as I rarely get them into melee).

I do love the Thief class though (I've always been partial to thieves and bards in D&D), so I always try to have one in the party. I switched the game to using the 3rd Edition Sneak Attack instead of Backstab. But after reading Cbarchuk's log of his run, I'm going to try Backstab again.
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TheCuddlyOne: I'm definitely going to trade the Fighter / Cleric for the Ranger / Cleric and see how that goes. My current cleric never could take a hit very well and spent most of her time using ranged attacks anyway.

*Sigh* I still don't know what to do about a mage and I'm still not sure if I want, or need, more than one. Since I'm having a bard regardless then your recommendation for a specialist mage would solve that problem. I have a thing for making my mages elves but if a specialist human is preferable then I don't mind either way.
You don't need more than one, especially if you're taking a Bard. A specialist gets an extra spell per level, which is nice, but it's not necessary. If you're partial to Elves, then I'd go with an Elf mage (not specialist) and call it good.
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TheCuddlyOne: I never paid much attention to Dex as a stat for my Tank. I've tried reading the D & D rules but its so math heavy I have trouble grasping it. I spent quite a bit of time trying to wrap my head around AC and I think I get the gist of how that works now, I just never realized that Dexterity factors into it. I only grasped that the lower the AC the better and (contrary to what I thought the first time I played) negative numbers are a good thing.
Yeah, the AD&D rules can be counter-intuitive (lower is better, and THAC0 is confusing as hell for a new player). As far as DEX goes though, if your Fighter has 18 DEX, it improves his AC by 4 points. That's a not insignificant bonus. 15 DEX gives a 1 AC bonus, 16 gives 2 AC, and 17 gives 3 AC. So make sure your fighters have at least 15 DEX (I always go for 18).
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TheCuddlyOne: You see, we never had Dungeons and Dragons in my country during the height of its popularity because of all the demonizing from the media so they never imported it to our country. I'm sure if I grew up with the game I would have a better understanding of it now. I'm a little depressed I missed out on such a great culture because of a gross misconception about such an amazing board game, and my household didn't have the internet or even a computer until I was 17. I'm just glad I get to experience it now. The only problem is that modern RPGs tend to hold your hand so my first impression going into these older games is that they hate me and do not want me to succeed. Ha ha.

Anyway, I say all that so you don't think I'm stupid or ignorant or anything, I've just never had any official exposure to Dungeons and Dragons or the rules until I bought these games.
Yeah, the Infinity Engine games definitely don't hold your hand like newer games do.

I picked up the Dungeons and Dragons game way back in 1977 just after it first came out and played it a lot for 10 or so years (yeah, I'm an old guy - almost 50). So I'm familiar with the rules. But as I noted before, if you've not seen the game, it can be terribly confusing. I don't think you're stupid at all, so don't worry about that.

Anyway, I hope I haven't just served to confuse you even more. My best advice is to not worry too much about what you think you should take as a party, and roll up one that you like. Post it up here and we can give you some advice on tweaks or maybe what changes we feel would be absolutely essential. But you can get through the game and be successful with almost any party makeup. Heck, I've seen plenty of people post they've soloed the game, and I've done run throughs with 2 characters a few times.

**One thing I should mention is I've modded my game in several ways. I've added the Unfinished Business mod, which adds in or completes some quests left out by the devs before the game shipped. I've also tweaked it to fix some broken mechanics and one thing I did to save my sanity was add infinite stacking of arrows, bolts, bullets, gems, potions, and scrolls. I also play on Insane difficulty, which in some ways makes the game easier, since you get double XP and level faster (the mobs do hit harder though, and there are some areas with more mobs spawned than in the base game). So take my advice with a grain of salt. I've been playing so many runs with the modded game that I'm actually kind of fuzzy on the unmodded version.
Okay, taking what you've said regarding the Paladin into consideration I think I'll put him aside for now. Who knows, maybe after beating the game I may be inclined to give it another round. If I have to wait until the end to get the weapon then it's no big deal for me and if the Bard is as over-powered in the Expansion then I wouldn't need the Pally weapon.

I have that problem with 100% completion too but I'm not too strict about it. My problem is that I want to get 100% on my first run (since I know I hardly finish games or go back to them and I'm a huge procrastinator). Sometimes 100% completion is not possible on the first playthrough so I don't worry if that's the case, but if it is then I end up spoiling my game experience because I look up everything on gamefaqs and essentially take the fun of exploring out of it. I'll try not to ruin IWD 2 if I ever get around to it.

Well, I'll have to look more into Dual Classing the Druid at level 7 and see what spells I'll be missing out on and see if they're worth it. Going without Druid spells for so early in the game is also something I'll definitely need to take into consideration. Would Multi-Classing my Druid as a Fighter / Druid give me the same problem experience cap wise or is it just better to Dual Class? I'm used to grinding having played quite a bit MMORPGs but doing it here is a bit more time-consuming, I agree.

I did read the No Reload thread and had no idea backstab could be so effective. I'm definitely going to look into that. (Haven't checked the manual yet).

Hm, I'd definitely want a specialist mage for that extra slot so looks like a human specialist mage it is. I'll go through the conflicting schools again and see which one I want to specialize in.

Thanks for the clarification on Dexterity in relation to Armour Class. I will make sure to get it as close to 18 as I possibly can for my characters. I can't, for the life of me work out THAC0. I thought I understood it at one point after reading the explanation about three times but I had to read it again just to be certain, but I think I got it.

I like the no hand holding aspect of it honestly, it makes the game more open to exploration and, more importantly, role playing. The only thing is that Icewind Dale seems so much more 'linear' in comparison to Baldur's Gate. Maybe that's because I never made it past the Temple dungeon and I've explored most, if not all of the map in Baldur's Gate before even entering the titular city.

I've read about soloing the game and that does sound like fun. I'd love to try the Fighter/Thief/Mage I've heard so much about. I'll take your advice and just go with a party I feel comfortable with but I think you've given me enough information to make a well-rounded party. I'll list them here after I roll them up.

Thanks again for all your help and patience!

**With regards to the modding, I'm so tempted to mod the game but I read it was best to play the game unmodded first. I do like the sound of an infinite item stacks mod though and more quests is never a bad thing.
There's no experience cap in IWD and all races can use all weapon types in the game, including gnomes using composite long bows.


As for stats: most important is 18 dex for everyone, those 4 AC do make a difference. It's also very important to max str (more damage and more carrying capacity) and con (more hitpoints, for characters without warrior levels 16 is sufficient). Int, wis and cha are useless and can be dumped to 3 or even lower, the only exceptions are: For mages and bards int should be maxed (more comfortable spell learning), for clerics and druids maxed wis is nice for getting a few low level bonus spells.


You don't need a dedicated tank for the party, you can just send summons forward, it's not problematic when they get hit.

There's no need to take paladin, neither for fighting nor for dialogue, there's even a situation in the game where having a paladin speak cuts off an opportunity for trading and gaining more XP. With the right stats and equipment every class can work as tank.

The only noteworthy benefit paladins get are their protection from evil special ability and the which equals +2 to AC and +4 to all saving throws. But since you are forced to waste points for wis and cha they usually have worse physical stats than rangers or fighters where you can roll 18/00 str, 18 dex and 18 con with a little patience.

The paladin only longsword is found late in the game and you'll find better longswords all classes can use afterwards.

When you choose a ranger instead you get a full extra melee attack per round even with 2-handed weapons which does make a difference, without shield you can switch from melee to bow easily.

Fighters level faster than paladins which means they get bonuses to hit, saving throws and hitpoints faster, you can take one of the little races for a huge saving throw bonus and get grandmastery in your weapon, which means +2 to hit, +3 to damage and +1 full attack per round compared to the paladin's specialization bonuses.
If you choose a gnome you can have 18/00 str, 18 dex and 18 con and get +3 bonus AC from the helm only gnomes and halflings can wear.
Choose your specialization wisely, I'd get 5 stars in axes fast since the specialization will apply both to melee and returning throwing axes. If you already planned to give the helm to someone else you can take a dwarf for 19 con.


Pure class druids have the disadvantage that they can't use most heavy armor and most shields, restricted to studded leather and buckler for most of the game they don't get as good protection as clerics in full plate with large shield.

Fighter levels remove the armor restrictions while 18/.. str and weapon specialization bonuses easily double the physical damage output. On the long run dualing after 7 fighter levels (master scimitar and sling) is best, this takes only 64,000 XP compared to 225,000 XP it takes to get an additional druid level after level 15. But I guess you don't want to wait until the middle of chapter 2 before casting your first druid spell, dualing after fighter level 3 works well too.

It's very hard to roll a fighter for dualing to druid since you have to pump up cha to 17 to be able to dualclass, so you might have to dump either dex or con to 8-10 to be able to max the important stats.
Pure class druids have the advantage that they get better rolls at creation (12+ wis and 15+ cha granted) and don't have to put 17 into cha.


I don't recommend playing without a cleric, their buff, protection and healing spells are very useful. Fighter3/cleric dualclass is an option if you can wait so long without healing, if you have a pure or early dualclassed druid or start the mage as cleric ranger7/cleric is the optimal build.


If you have a bard in the party you don't need a mage from the start, you could start as human fighter or cleric and switch to illusionist later for more hitpoints and other benefits. It's dangerous making your mage with little HP an elf, raise dead (spell or scroll) doesn't work for them. Resurrection is a level 7 spell and costs twice as much in temples.
A gnome illusionist can start with 19 int.
If you don't like spellcasting much the bard alone is sufficient to handle everything needed.


Everything a thief can do (archery, backstabbing) he can do better multiclassed with fighter. Even a tripleclass fighter/mage/thief gets more than enough thieving skill points.
Post edited October 21, 2011 by kmonster
Reply to kmonster:

Thank you very much for your input as well. I was always under the impression charisma was necessary in this game for dialogue options, which (now that I recall) was one reason I made a Paladin the leader, because they use Cha. Good to know it's not that necessary.

With all the benefits you mention for a Ranger / Cleric I definitely can't wait to try one.

Based on what you say regarding the smaller classes then a Dwarf Fighter would be better than a human but a gnome, especially with the helm would not only have more 'dodge' but more AC as well. Nice!

I see the disadvantages in Dual Classing a level 7 Fighter to a druid but what are the disadvantages with a Multi-class Druid? I imagine a longer wait before obtaining high level spells and fighter specializations. I found out purely by accident that a high level character can be saved and loaded into a brand new game. In my current game, I have a Mulit-class Fighter / Druid, I think level 3 or 4 for both classes. Could I load her into my new game so she has a head-start?

I definitely do want a cleric in my party, the question is, would it be redundant to have more than 1 or 2? I'm already going for a Ranger/Cleric and a Druid, would a Gnome Cleric / Illusionist be over-kill?

Also, regarding the specialized mage, I was going for a Human mage specialized in Alteration, leaving Abjuration and Necromancy for my Bard. However, there is one spell in Abjuration I think I'd like and that is the Circle of Invulnerability so if I'm losing Necromancy by specializing in Alteration then I might as well specialize in Illusion and since gnomes make great Illusionists then a gnome Illusionist would be better than a human Illusionist correct?
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TheCuddlyOne: I was always under the impression charisma was necessary in this game for dialogue options, which (now that I recall) was one reason I made a Paladin the leader, because they use Cha. Good to know it's not that necessary.
There are few (not really important) charisma checks in the game, but 15+ cha (which is minimum stat requirement for bards who can also raise it to 20 for optimal shop prices with the "friends" spell) is enough to succeed in all of them.
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TheCuddlyOne: I see the disadvantages in Dual Classing a level 7 Fighter to a druid but what are the disadvantages with a Multi-class Druid? I imagine a longer wait before obtaining high level spells and fighter specializations. I found out purely by accident that a high level character can be saved and loaded into a brand new game. In my current game, I have a Mulit-class Fighter / Druid, I think level 3 or 4 for both classes. Could I load her into my new game so she has a head-start?
The disadvantage of multiclassing is that you need twice as many XP to reach the druid levels, druid spells and shapeshift forms. A head-start won't change anything considering that a multiclass needs about 500,000 XP per additional level up on the long run.

The advantage of multiclassing is that you get druid spells, more attack power and defensive benefits from the beginning (you don't want to play without a healer too long) and more fighter benefits as you level up.
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TheCuddlyOne: I definitely do want a cleric in my party, the question is, would it be redundant to have more than 1 or 2? I'm already going for a Ranger/Cleric and a Druid, would a Gnome Cleric / Illusionist be over-kill?

Also, regarding the specialized mage, I was going for a Human mage specialized in Alteration, leaving Abjuration and Necromancy for my Bard. However, there is one spell in Abjuration I think I'd like and that is the Circle of Invulnerability so if I'm losing Necromancy by specializing in Alteration then I might as well specialize in Illusion and since gnomes make great Illusionists then a gnome Illusionist would be better than a human Illusionist correct?
I don't see much benefit in having more than one cleric, you don't need more than one cleric in the party to cast the cleric specific spells, protection from evil 10' radius doesn't get twice as useful if you have 2 clerics to cast it for example. If your main cleric dies you still have the druid to bring him back with a raise dead scroll.
Being multiclass illusionist won't help much either since you'll have trouble finding enough high level scrolls for 3 arcane casters.
It's definitely better to replace this character with a fighter/thief or fighter/mage/thief.

Gnome illusionist is definitely better than human illusionist, you get higher int and saving throw bonuses, the only benefit humans get is that they can dualclass, so you could start with a few levels in another class before switching to illusionist.
The correct forbidden spell schools for specialist mages are in the HoW manual.
Post edited October 22, 2011 by kmonster
Okay, after much thought I've decided to go with the following party:

Gnome Fighter: As the main tank and for the extra to 'dodge' and the gnome helmet that improves AC.

Human Ranger / Cleric: If I recall correctly, only humans can be Rangers. For healing and buffs and the extra attack the ranger gets later.

Human Fighter / Druid: I chose human because they suffer no penalties to attributes in character creation and I need as many points to bring Str, Dex, Con, Wis and Cha as close to max as possible. For Cleric backup duties and amazing Druid spells. Will try to hold out to Dual class at level 7 for as long as possible.

Bard: No particular race decided upon yet but am thinking Elf for the natural resistances to sleep and magic and the bonus to Dex. Picked this character solely because I read they were overpowered in HoW.

Mage / Thief or Fighter / Mage / Thief: Still somewhat undecided how I want to class this character and what race to use. Was thinking of making her a specialist mage but, as kmonster advised, the opposition schools have changed with HoW. If going for a specialization it may be an Illusionist leaving the Bard to cast the Necromancy and Abjuration spells.

I can't think of a character for the 6th slot but I think this is well rounded unless anyone else has any advice?
Elves and half-elves can be rangers too. Only half-elves can be ranger/cleric multiclass, only humans can start as ranger and dual to cleric. If you dual from ranger to cleric make sure that you don't put proficiency points into weapon types clerics can't use. I'd start with specialization in slings and either mace or flail or hammer, if you wait until level 7 with dualing you can specialize in two melee weapon types.
You get the extra melee attack without shield from the first ranger level, for the extra half attack with everything you need at least 7 ranger levels.

For dualclassing to druid you need a true neutral human fighter with at least 15 str, 17 wis and 17 cha. 18 cha is only beneficial in the prologue and for buying a "friends" scroll, afterwards your 15 cha bard will get 20 cha and optimal shop priced thanks to the spell.
If you can't roll good enough It's better to dump con down to 8 and leaving str, dex and wis at 18 than lowering all 4 stats to mediocre.

Bards can only be human or half-elf, 10 percent pickpocketing skill is the only difference. Elves don't get any resistance bonuses in the game.

If you want a mage/thief without fighter part you might as well take an illusionist/thief instead for the extra spells, higher int and save bonus.


An option for character 6 is starting as human cleric who dualclasses to specialist wizard at level 7-9 depending on the XP you're willing to spend. This way you start with a healer and can afford to wait dualclassing your ranger to cleric and fighter to druid until level 7, dualclassing to specialist wizard will yield a character who gains mage spell levels faster than the multiclasses or the bard and can cast spells higher than level 6 during the game.
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TheCuddlyOne: I really don't want to have to start over again after this one and I promise not to make the same mistake with Icewind Dale 2.
After all the preparation and after finally playing the game... you'll be delighted to find out ID2 uses a different ruleset, meaning you'll need to unlearn all the hard lessons and start over... ;)

You should be just fine with your party. I wouldn't optimize as far as to take 7 levels before dualing, It's a pain to work up to the 8th level without the previous skills. Makes the game much harder for a long time and for not all that great reward. 3 levels or so should be enough.
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TheCuddlyOne: A little back-story about myself: As much as I love gaming I am a chronic procrastinator and I hardly ever finish them. Knowing this I tend to always play on easy or try to complete it the 'best' way (earn the 'good' endings) on the first playthrough.

I love RPGs and love both Baldur's Gate (which I still have yet to finish) and Icewind Dale and want to finish them both before getting the second part of both series. I have restarted Icewind Dale twice after reaching the Temple of the Forgotten Gods because of the giants and mages in there. My first mistake was apparently focusing on 'offensive' spells for my mage since 'crowd control' and 'buffs' would be better against the mobs in the Temple.

I did more research and more research, trying to find the best party for me but I've become so picky now that I want every role filled in just six slots. I read it was best to multi-class as many roles as possible so I dumped most of my pure classes. I read the bard is ridiculously over-powered because of Heart of Winter but, although others have argued it removes the challenge, I don't mind. I'll be honest, I like an easy game and would turn up the difficulty only if I find it too easy or after beating it the first time.

My current party consists of:
Human Paladin - Which I really didn't want but read he made a good tank.

Human Pure class Fighter - Which was supposed to be my back up tank but want to make my main tank. I also heard it was best to leave him pure class to make him stronger.

Human Fighter / Cleric - Which was one of the pure classes I dumped because it was advisable to do so. Now I've heard Ranger / Clerics are better and I'm thinking of dumping her for one, but do they get to use swords along with Bows or just Maces and Slings?

Half-Elf Druid - I like druids and I love their nature spells. I really want to keep a druid.

Elf Multi-Class Thief / Mage - I heard that a thief is NEEDED in this game and, after all the traps I've unintentionally tripped even with 'Find Traps' active I know that I'm going to need one. The thief was another pure-class I dropped after reading that a pure thief is a wasted character slot since they are easily multi-classable. I also read I could make my main Tank a Fighter / Thief since he will be in front anyway and would be better at finding traps than the thief in the back row. I'm thinking of dumping this character for the Bard.

Gnome Cleric / Illusionist - I read that it was best to have a pure mage to make the most of spell learning and spell slots, then I read that a multi-class mage is viable so now I`m so confused. I don't think I even needed this character since I already had a Cleric, Druid and Paladin and I also read that having more than one mage was redundant in this game since spells were difficult to come by. I was also thinking of dropping this character for the Bard.


I've never had this problem with Baldur's Gate because I never did so much researching about it before playing it and I hate myself for taking all the fun out of Icewind Dale because now it no longer feels like a game, but a chore.

Can anyone give me any pointers about my party setup? I really don't want to have to start over again after this one and I promise not to make the same mistake with Icewind Dale 2.

Also, should I have high dexterity on my Tank for dodging? And should I trade the bows and arrows on my front line fighters with slings so they can equip shields? I know it sounds silly not having them equip shields in the first place but bows seem to do more damage and most mobs die before they even reach my party.
Ok, I read some of the replies, and I thought I'd give you some differing input, but as always, it's your party and your decision, but here are some other things to consider.

Paladins are limited in their weapon specialization, however, they get bonus to saving throws, minor cleric spells and turning, lay on hands, cure disease, immune to fear...etc... and offer extra quest experience in some circumstances. My recommendation, if you're playing HoW as well, is to take a fighter and specialize in a weapon or two and then dual class to Pally for the extra benefits and the good weapon late in the game (was that a holy avenger? been a while, in which case, I would take it in long swords).

Human fighter--is up to you, if you're looking for a tank with HP, I'd go dwarf.

I used a cleric/ranger before as a frontline fighter/alternate healer, and it worked real well. I also used him to hide in shadows and to scout areas before going into them to see what the monsters were like.

I used a druid as well, and they have some great combat spells. Half-elf is good, gets you some extra bonuses to sleep, etc. You could dual class a fighter druid, but I went straight, I used healing and offensive magic. Late in the game you get some good druid armor, etc, and I shape-changed into some powerful creatures. Conversely, you can dual class a ranger/druid, and get the one extra attack anyways without having to go so many levels as a fighter, you'd just have to forgo the shield. Keep in mind to watch you alignments when choosing to dual class as well as their necessary ability scores.

I used a dwarven F/T, as well as the backstab upon occassion.

For the mage, I went pure, to get access to all the spells. Not sure if this applies to HoW, but in IWD if you pick conjurer, you get an extra spell and access to all the spells in the game (it limits your divinity to level 1&2, but there are no level 3 spells in the game). Also, a pure mage can be turned into a magical sluing tank with the right buffs.

I never used a bard, honestly. I'm considering dual class thief/bard--taking the thief up to max backstab level and then switching (7, 9?), but I'd hate to miss on some experience early on...still debating that one myself.
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Ravenlocke: Ok, I read some of the replies, and I thought I'd give you some differing input, but as always, it's your party and your decision, but here are some other things to consider.

Paladins are limited in their weapon specialization, however, they get bonus to saving throws, minor cleric spells and turning, lay on hands, cure disease, immune to fear...etc... and offer extra quest experience in some circumstances. My recommendation, if you're playing HoW as well, is to take a fighter and specialize in a weapon or two and then dual class to Pally for the extra benefits and the good weapon late in the game (was that a holy avenger? been a while, in which case, I would take it in long swords).
You cannot dual into or out of the Paladin class, so this cannot be done.

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Ravenlocke: Human fighter--is up to you, if you're looking for a tank with HP, I'd go dwarf.

I used a cleric/ranger before as a frontline fighter/alternate healer, and it worked real well. I also used him to hide in shadows and to scout areas before going into them to see what the monsters were like.

I used a druid as well, and they have some great combat spells. Half-elf is good, gets you some extra bonuses to sleep, etc. You could dual class a fighter druid, but I went straight, I used healing and offensive magic. Late in the game you get some good druid armor, etc, and I shape-changed into some powerful creatures. Conversely, you can dual class a ranger/druid, and get the one extra attack anyways without having to go so many levels as a fighter, you'd just have to forgo the shield. Keep in mind to watch you alignments when choosing to dual class as well as their necessary ability scores.
Ranger/Druid is not a valid dual/multiclass combo, so that cannot be done.

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Ravenlocke: I used a dwarven F/T, as well as the backstab upon occassion.

For the mage, I went pure, to get access to all the spells. Not sure if this applies to HoW, but in IWD if you pick conjurer, you get an extra spell and access to all the spells in the game (it limits your divinity to level 1&2, but there are no level 3 spells in the game). Also, a pure mage can be turned into a magical sluing tank with the right buffs.
With HoW installed, the opposition schools have been changed, so this no longer applies. The opposing school for Conjuration is now Invocation (evocation spells), which means you'd miss out on a ton of good attack magic.

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Ravenlocke: I never used a bard, honestly. I'm considering dual class thief/bard--taking the thief up to max backstab level and then switching (7, 9?), but I'd hate to miss on some experience early on...still debating that one myself.
With HoW installed, Bards are fantastic. Excellent song buffs, and they're very good secondary casters as well.
It's been so long since I played I wasn't sure about the paladin, guess it makes sense. same with the druid ranger (I knew you couldn't multiclass, but thought you may be able to dual class). Ruins some of my random thoughts there.

That sucks about HoW switching the opposing schools around. Guess I'm going to have to do a bit more research before starting off again. Personally, I'll take the minus a spell/level and go straight pure mage for the spell selection, and if you're going pure, you'll gain levels fairly quickly anyways.

I'm excited to play a bard after reading a lot of the comments here. Is it worthwhile to dual class a bard? If so, what would you recommend?

While I'm at it...best F/T race? gnome, hafling, or dwarf?
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Ravenlocke: It's been so long since I played I wasn't sure about the paladin, guess it makes sense. same with the druid ranger (I knew you couldn't multiclass, but thought you may be able to dual class). Ruins some of my random thoughts there.

That sucks about HoW switching the opposing schools around. Guess I'm going to have to do a bit more research before starting off again. Personally, I'll take the minus a spell/level and go straight pure mage for the spell selection, and if you're going pure, you'll gain levels fairly quickly anyways.

I'm excited to play a bard after reading a lot of the comments here. Is it worthwhile to dual class a bard? If so, what would you recommend?
Bards are another class that cannot dual or multiclass, so straight Bard only. One thing you might consider is, if you go with a Bard, you can specialize your mage (check the opposition schools to figure out which specialization you want to go with). The Bard can memorize the spells from the school that's barred to your specialist. And since the Bard levels really fast (their progression is the same as the Thief), they'll be casting at a higher level than the mage much of the time. Win/win.

Oh, and the Bard also get Pick Pocket, which can be extremely useful at one particular spot in the game, so that frees up points that your Thief doesn't need to waste.
While I'm at it...best F/T race? gnome, hafling, or dwarf?


I like Gnome, simply due to the extra benefits from their race, and the fact they can wear the Helm of the Trusted Defender. I find the Gnome Fighter/Thief makes a great Thief and a very decent secondary tank.