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Icewind Dale seriesA few questions on party synergy(16 posts)(16 posts)
(16 posts)
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Posted May 26, 2019
Hi Everyone,

I’m a bit late the Icewind Dale EE party, but am happy to finally get here. I’ve read a bit on the different forums about multi-classing and party planning, and realized I'd forgotten just how involved party creation could be. I’ve been trying to factor in experience as well, based on 2.5 million exp per character, for a 6-man party. I’m planning on a single run in normal mode.

Based on the information that I’ve seen I decided to start with something like this:

Paladin
melee/priest
melee dps
ranged dps
Thief/Mage
Bard

I’m not that familiar with wizard spells, but there didn’t seem to be a lot of difference between a straight 16 mage and multi-class level 13 mage. This is based on 2.5 million exp per character. Am I missing something?

With this setup, will the party have enough healing throughout the different stages of the game? It seems that healing could be tricky in the early part of the game.

If more healing is needed, I could add a second melee/priest and drop one of the dps characters. Which would be the best form of dps to keep, ranged or melee?

Thanks for any input.
Posted May 26, 2019
I don't know how much Beamdog changed Icewind Dale's mechanics and balance, but in the original game as long as you had one character that could cast heal you were ok. But the most important character is the Rogue since the entire game is filled with traps that can obliterate your party in one second.

Mages are very necessary for the massive amount of enemies or to prepare ambushes for the dungeon boss and it's lackeys (cloud kill + entangle), in some parts the haste spell will be your life saver and more usefull than any healing potion or spell aviable.

But as far as I know your party isn't a bad choice, I always go with the Rogue/Fighter/Cleric/Wizzard combo with each character (aside from the fighter) having at least 2 or 4 levels in the Fighter Class for the ability to use heavy armor and the +1 Long Bow bonus.

Just take into consideration that the more characters you get the less levels you will end up stocking up for the final battle, and is at that point that every single level matters.

As for the Wizzard VS Wizzard Multi-Class, just remember that the 'extra class' is there just to give you the abilities of another class, a Wizzard Level 13 will be less than a Level 16 but mostly in the stats. The Spells for the most part will be the same.
Post edited May 26, 2019 by Fury161
Posted May 26, 2019
You may want to take a look at my personal experience 2 years ago here

The difference between Lv13 and Lv 16 mage is 1 spell per 4th, 5th, 6th level spells plus 2 7th and 1 8th level spells that 13th level mage can not cast. This is usually a big dial in D&D but not so much in IWD since I found magic close to useless, especially for boss fights.

I had an Elf - Ranger (Archer) and he finished the game with 45% kill ratio in a 6 player party. Mage AOE spells are nice but they are limited while a Grandmaster Archer can kill almost as quickly.

Other than that, IWD was a very easy game in the hardest difficulty. (Probably because it gives double xp >.< ). So your party seems more than okey.

I am currently trying to make things harder for me with only 3 characters.
Dwarf Fighter with Axe and crossbow.
Dwarven Cleric/thief.
Sorcerer.

They handle things pretty easy so far.
Posted May 26, 2019
One of the dangers of multiple arcane casters is that spell scrolls are rare in IWD. You may be better served with a sorcerer & bard rather than a traditional mage--though the problem is that you can't multi-class a sorcerer.
Posted May 26, 2019
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Engerek01: This is usually a big dial in D&D but not so much in IWD since I found magic close to useless, especially for boss fights.
Agreed. Arcane magic in IWD is, as your say, next to useless.
Posted May 26, 2019
On second thought, I do have a recommandation: Make your thief/mage pure thief. Taking 2.5 M exp into account, you'll have Thief(Lv15) / Mage(Lv13) , while a pure Thief will be level 21. Your Bard, who will also be level 21 will be covering the wizard spells anyways.

At the moment, I am not sure if there are any wizard spells which make Thieves a lot effective but I highly doubt it will cover the 6 level difference.
Posted May 27, 2019
Thanks everyone, that was very, very helpful.

At some point, reading through the links, a reference was made to the first AD&D game I tried to play, many years ago: the dark queen of krynn! I hadn't thought about that for a long time. I never did get that game to run correctly.

Still refining the group, but I think it's more a matter of personal preference at this point. And I always wanted to play a Bard, decisions, decisions...
Posted May 30, 2019
I much prefer playing my Mages as blaster/CC types, but yes, I have to agree that my experience in IWD is that, because you tend to face a LOT of enemies that are either a) undead, and so immune to cold, most CC spells and some of the most devastating AoE spells like Horrid Wilting, or b) elemental (i.e. frost/fire) types that will be immune to one or the other of your main damaging spells like Fireball, the Mage's presence in a IWD party is somewhat diminished.

However, I'd still strongly recommend bringing one along, because Mages in IWD get access to a bunch of nifty buff spells like the various Emotion spells that can supplement the buffs your divine spellcasters provide, along with the ever-essential Haste and Identify spells. Finally, there's a 5th level Mage spell called Contact Other Plane that I highly recommend memorizing and just casting it every time you rest in each of the Chapters. Doing so can give you access to information and lore that you otherwise wouldn't have access to, and in some cases can lead to new dialogue options that open up new outcomes or that grant you access to powerful magic items.

IWD:EE also imports in the various Contingency and Sequencer spells from the BG series, which further open up greater strategic options for your Mage in combat. (3x Vitriolic Spheres cast via Spell Sequencer at a single target will seriously mess up any enemy not resistant to Acid damage, for instance.)
Posted June 18, 2019
One thing I don't see in this thread is Druids. A dual-class Fighter->Druid is one of the more overpowered combinations. and fun to play. They have a versatile set of spells, with buffs, healing, aoe, disabling, and summoning, and (if dualed with a fighter) still hit really hard.

A Fighter->Druid and a Bard are the only classes you need in IWD. If you take anyone else, they are just there for the ride. :)
Posted June 18, 2019
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scribblemacher: A Fighter->Druid and a Bard are the only classes you need in IWD. If you take anyone else, they are just there for the ride. :)
Except for clerics and paladins (for all the undead).
Posted June 18, 2019
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scribblemacher: One thing I don't see in this thread is Druids. A dual-class Fighter->Druid is one of the more overpowered combinations. and fun to play. They have a versatile set of spells, with buffs, healing, aoe, disabling, and summoning, and (if dualed with a fighter) still hit really hard.

A Fighter->Druid and a Bard are the only classes you need in IWD. If you take anyone else, they are just there for the ride. :)
I don't think you "need" any class in IWD.
Posted June 20, 2019
One thing to be aware of is scroll scarcity; scrolls are scarce, and often there may be only one scroll of important spells (I believe Stoneskin comes to mind); this means that, if you have two or more arcane casters, you will have to choose who gets certain spells. Also, the game unfortunately doesn't allow characters to pick new spells at level up for whatever reason.

Fpr a party containing both a Mage and a Bard, I note that Bards are better with spells that scale with level (like Melf's Minute Meteors and Skull Trap, not to mention Tensor's Transformation), while Mages get higher level spells sooner (though that may not be true for multi-class mages) and more spells per day. (Just note that, while you might have access to higher level spell slots, there's no guarantee that you will be able to actually fill those slots as you might not have found any scrolls of that level.) Also, don't forget that some spells synergize with certain other classes; for example, a spell that make the caster invisible works best on a character who can backstab, while a spell like Stoneskin is good for a character who will be engaged in melee.

Note that scroll scarcity does not affect divine casters. (Clerics are actually the dominant class in this game; a single-class Cleric in a small party on a difficulty that awards more XP could easily end up destroying most undead with their Turn Undead ability.) Also, in the EE, Sorcerers aren't affected, as they do pick their spells at level-up (and can get access to certain spells before you find any scrolls that allows Mages and Bards to learn them).
Posted August 21, 2019
My preferred method of playing IWD was min/maxing with point-buy for PC generation and running a solo dual-class F/MU or F/C PC. So you certainly don't need a thief in the party... you just need enough hp to survive triggering the traps.

Running a cleric-based PC is easiest, not because of healing but rather because clerics gain all spell knowledge immediately on level-up and because of cleric's turn/smite undead ability and powerful self-buff spells... the adventure is absolutely infested by undead and the Sanctuary/Smite combo makes clerics invulnerable. The various Fire/element protection spells stack too, so you can get 150% fire protection that actually heals you if /when a boss uses fire.

A mage is more tricky because as already noted your spell book is limited by what scrolls you find, and the mage will have to fight undead rather than smite them. Don't be surprised if at high levels you haven't found any spells yet to cast, as most lvl 6+ spell scrolls are only found in the last chapter(s). But magi can self-buff mage armor, strength, mirror image, blur, enhanced invisibility, Tasha's transformation, ect. that make them fierce warriors, especially if they have a few dual-classed levels of Fighter for weapon mastery. Strength spell + sling is your best friend for fighting undead in the early stages of the game, as bonus STR adds sling damage and blunt vs skellies is good. Forget damage spells for boss fights... you want to kill bosses as a spell-buffed warrior on steroids... so save those giant strength potions and stockpile magic arrows for special occasions.

IWD2 was different. I ran one of the standard pre-gen parties provided (the one with the half-orc barb and drow sorceress), by no means optimized PCs, and it worked fine.
Post edited August 21, 2019 by Dreamteam67
Posted August 24, 2019
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Dreamteam67: The various Fire/element protection spells stack too, so you can get 150% fire protection that actually heals you if /when a boss uses fire.
Or if the fire comes from a party member, like a mage using Fireball.

One word of warning: While fire damage will heal you with such high resistance (though I believe it may be capped at 125%, not 150%), it will still disrupt any spell you're trying to cast. The Infinity Engine can behave strangely sometimes.

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Dreamteam67: IWD2 was different. I ran one of the standard pre-gen parties provided (the one with the half-orc barb and drow sorceress), by no means optimized PCs, and it worked fine.
One thing to note: Assuming you level up characters as soon as possible, a solo character won't be as far ahead of a party in IWD2 because being a higher level causes you to get significantly less XP from enemies.

If you *don't* level up as soon as possible, you will get more XP, and will likely reach a higher level than was intended. Note that this is based on *average* party level, so introducing a new level 1 character can result in existing party members getting more XP. In any case, I consider the mechanic, as implemented in IWD2, to be extremely flawed; Temple of Elemental Evil handles it better (XP gain is separate for character, and you can't double level up, instead losing excess XP), and IWD1 doesn't have the issue (as your level does not affect earned XP).
Post edited August 24, 2019 by dtgreene
Posted October 02, 2019
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scribblemacher: One thing I don't see in this thread is Druids. A dual-class Fighter->Druid is one of the more overpowered combinations. and fun to play. They have a versatile set of spells, with buffs, healing, aoe, disabling, and summoning, and (if dualed with a fighter) still hit really hard.

A Fighter->Druid and a Bard are the only classes you need in IWD. If you take anyone else, they are just there for the ride. :)
I completed the game solo my first time. I think I had a dwarf fighter-mage? Some sort of dwarven multiclass, at any rate.
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Icewind Dale seriesA few questions on party synergy(16 posts)(16 posts)
(16 posts)