Handy too when they are on your side (but I don't recommend skeletons vs skeletons - too hard to distinguish friend from foe).

A good point, and I really can't put my finger on it either, but not being able to just run around and kill everything from the start didn't make you want to quit the game in frustration, instead, somehow the game made you WANT to get better and come back and kick butt.

I think part of it that may have helped is, when you got your butt kicked in Gothic, you'd lay there semi-conscious and watch the guys who beat you up insult you and steal your stuff.
Then you had no choice but to get stronger, kick their asses and take your stuff back.

LOL!! No kidding! I think a "kill some skeletons" quest in most CRPGs came right after the "Kill all the rats that are in the basement of the Inn" quest.

Well said, and that is why, one of my All Time Favorite games are the very first "3D" RPGs I ever played called "Dungeon Master", its sequel "Chaos Strikes Back" by a company called FTL (Faster than Light) and in (1998 IIRC, once FTL faded to the wayside, Interplay came out with "Dungeon Master II" yet another game I'd like to see on GOG.
Those games were unforgiving, all of the games took place inside a dungeon, the second game being more difficult than the first due to you having to teleport (and learn which teleports brought you where) all over the place, and traps, traps traps all over the place and NO AUTOMAPPING

Honestly, I would suggest skipping Gothic and going for Risen. Has all the benefits of Gothic (unforgiving world, interesting character development, black and grey morality, etc) while having a very polished gameplay system (compared to Gothic 1 and 2, at least...) and doesn't have the "you are punished for exploring" aspect of Gothic 1.

Not to say Gothic is bad, but I have found Risen to be a lot more approachable.

When I can buy Risen and install it, without also installing the Tages Copyright Protection, then I'll buy it.

everybody is positive about risen too bad i cant play it.

It might eventually end up on Gog and DRM free :)

well i finaly get risen to work it was too dark but i have to say it did feeled like gothic with comes to the diffecult beginning and how you train your character.

Well, it's not as if a game has to be "fun". Personally I don't think the Gothic games are fun, especially not 3, nor do I think something like Planescape is. But I play them for other reasons than simple entertainment. It has an engaging story and interesting characters, and a world that draws me in, allowing the game mechanics themselves to take somewhat of a backseat.

The sequel, Risen, is a funner game, but with the polishing of the mechanics and squelching of bugs, its world lost some of the depth that the Gothics had.

I think the Gothic games are fun, and it might be because of the way I play them.

I'm usually laughing out loud at the stuff I do, because my hero isn't this perfect Ubermensch/Siegfried type who is the master of the world,
instead he's a bumbling hap-hazard guy that gets the shit kicked out of him every so often, because he's trying something dumb or shady, (such as trying to beat up the smith in Gothic 1 to steal his inventory to sell it), or trying to sneak in somewhere where he should'nt be and the guards finding him and kicking his ass.

Other times, getting caught stealing, so either running away for miles to escape, or to try and stand his ground and end up getting beaten up and knocked out.

One of the funnier times was when he got a couple of points of strength and habitually beat the living hell out of the map seller at the Quay in Gothic 2, to sell his maps, there was blood everywhere

SO yea, he isn't a flawless Hero Type, he bumbles around the game world trying to get an upper hand, gets caught, and tries to get out of his predicament.

If The Gothic series was an Online MMORPG my heroes corpses would be all over the map.

Loved the games from the first time in Gothic where two NPCs tricked me to follow them outside the camp, then beat me up and stole all my stuff.
Also,the combat system is great, however awkward the controls may be, because it's extremely difficult at first, but then once you get the hang of it, you find out that it's possible to beat higher level NPCs if you know how to time your blocks and stuff.