Ah yes, good old political discussions. Always fun to watch. The only problem of course being that it's not the comedy it so often looks to be, but that's only because the outcome has an effect on the rules of the world we live in.

Just remember, don't gob on your GOP. They tend not to like that, and some might have you shot for treason for doing it.

I view Homosexuality ... in fact all sexuality of other people outside of my chosen partner ... as not my fucking business, literally!

I used to think myself as Republican and even registered as such a while back, but then I realized that while some of the ideas for government were similar, I could not accept to be associated with what Republicans are now. Religion has become the dominant aspect of the Republican party, and it dictates their beliefs, many of which I have problems with given my friends and a close family member.

The democrats are tamer, but can be just as stubborn or bullheaded as republicans on issues. Take immigration for example. There is a clear problem with it, but nobody can find a middle ground, we get two extremes instead.

That being said, the real fear I have with the Republicans are the Tea Party-ists. If one of their favored candidates gets elected, I'm leaving North America for Europe or Asia. I've seen enough trends in history to see where that group is going if they get into power.

I'm not disappointed, because I'm an already a libertarian so we expect this stuff to happen.

Anyway, I love Ron Paul for the most part. He's a little... zany. But that's better than a lot of the other crap going on right now seriously...

I don't consider myself a troll at all. But when it comes to government, maybe. If you're undecided, vote Ron Paul just for the LOLz.

and on the topic of limiting personal freedoms based on the "popular" opinion, maybe we should go back to hanging people for the sinful act of an interracial relationship?

because, ya know ... it's for the best because it's the "popular" opinion.

I could only confirm a marginal majority of 53% (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8_%282008%29) and most of the coast pro gay marriage.

It's certainly a controverse topic. But I thought, we are already one step further. Most other developed countries have some sort of gay marriage and are happy with it. But people still seem to have a problem with it.

I think waiting 10 years more and it will become perfectly normal.

Californians didn't support that, Utah Mormons did and they were not overwhelming at all, it only got passed by the skin of its teeth. As of today, it still isn't official either as the Federal District Court did overturn it, pending appeal.

It is extremist in that nationwide, the minority oppose gay marriage to the point that they want to amend our constitution to eliminate it. As of last year, less than half the country was opposed to gay marriage itself and when you add the option for civil unions, the number opposed grows even smaller. Then there is the fact that this is an issue that nearly 70% of the country feels is not an important important issue at all (regardless of their pro or anti gay marriage stance). The economy, the wars, heck, even abortion is seen as a bigger issue than same-sex marriage. The only people who really care to make this an election issue are the far right Christian conservatives, one of the extremist views of the Republican party.

Hey! As a Christian conservative, I take offense... Oh, wait a tic.

Even I agree with you!

This is what is so frustrating. The only conservatives that seem to have a problem with gays are Elitists. The greater constituancy disagrees or doesn't care.

The evangelical republicans say rights are given by God. So, sorry gays...God doesn't like gays according to what the religious people say. God seems to have the same prejudices as humans, imagine that.

Well, we are created in his image... or is that the other way around?

Well not everyone hates gays so either the devil has tricked me and millions more, or religious people are full of shit.

Any reasonable religious person knows that it is best to keep religion out of government. The problem is that if the government has the ability to oppress another way of life, it could one day oppress yours. Look at the Fundamentalist Mormons who had their homes raided and children taken away because of one fake phone call. While I don't want a government that squashes religious ways of life, I do want one that recognizes the lifestyles of all religious and non religious people. This means staying out of it.

Yep, basically, you have a politician belonging to some minority group insert himself into the elite debate and suddenly, that issue takes a disproportionate amount of importance.

They then append that issue to the remainder of their platform and then you can't agree with one thing without having to agree with a whole bunch of other things.

In short, the elite decides a lot of thing for us without worrying too much as to whether we agree.

They think that their opinion has greater import then the opinion of the population so they don't want this state of affairs to change.

At best, this is a part time democracy.

This system might have made sense a century and a half ago, but things changed since then and the political arena has not adapted to reflect this new reality.

So how is it in our northern territory? ;)