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General discussion (archive)Why do people hate Final Fantasy XII?(119 posts)(119 posts)
(119 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted May 27, 2013
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Sogi-Ya: no fucking way am I reading through 5 pages of rants about Final Fantasy drama, so I am just going to respond to the OP.

FF12 & FF9 are the two FF games most in need of HD overhauls; they both were great games that got released at the ass end of a console's lifespan.

as such they were rushed to make deadlines and lack end game polish while the visuals suffer from late-gen restraints when the developers had the next gen capabilities in mind.
If only Final Fantasy 12 was a launch title for PS3 instead of PS2, it would have been a system seller :P
Posted May 27, 2013
Why do people hate Final Fantasy XII?
Why not?
Posted May 27, 2013
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Sogi-Ya: no fucking way am I reading through 5 pages of rants about Final Fantasy drama, so I am just going to respond to the OP.

FF12 & FF9 are the two FF games most in need of HD overhauls; they both were great games that got released at the ass end of a console's lifespan.

as such they were rushed to make deadlines and lack end game polish while the visuals suffer from late-gen restraints when the developers had the next gen capabilities in mind.
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Elmofongo: If only Final Fantasy 12 was a launch title for PS3 instead of PS2, it would have been a system seller :P
same thing if FF9 had been a PS2 launch title instead of PS1 ...

Why do people hate Final Fantasy XII?
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misteryo: Why not?
because, while it may be a non-standard game, it is a good game.
Post edited May 27, 2013 by Sogi-Ya
Posted May 27, 2013
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misteryo: Why not?
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Sogi-Ya: because, while it may be a non-standard game, it is a good game.
I can still hate it. Lots of people hate Arcanum, and that is a fantastic game. I can even hate FFXII without playing it. Watch me.

[hatehatehatehatehatehatehatehatehate]

Cheers.
Posted May 27, 2013
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Elmofongo: If only Final Fantasy 12 was a launch title for PS3 instead of PS2, it would have been a system seller :P
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Sogi-Ya: same thing if FF9 had been a PS2 launch title instead of PS1 ...
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misteryo: Why not?
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Sogi-Ya: because, while it may be a non-standard game, it is a good game.
Yet Final Fantasy 6 was released at the late side of the SNES cycle and it sold alot.
Posted May 27, 2013
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Sogi-Ya: same thing if FF9 had been a PS2 launch title instead of PS1 ...

because, while it may be a non-standard game, it is a good game.
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Elmofongo: Yet Final Fantasy 6 was released at the late side of the SNES cycle and it sold alot.
I think of it as more mid gen than late, Chrono Trigger was latter (and still sold a lot) ... but neither really pushed the SNES in what it could do.
Posted May 27, 2013
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Elmofongo: Yet Final Fantasy 6 was released at the late side of the SNES cycle and it sold alot.
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Sogi-Ya: I think of it as more mid gen than late, Chrono Trigger was latter (and still sold a lot) ... but neither really pushed the SNES in what it could do.
Whoa really, I put Super Metroid up there so what do you suggest pushed the SNES to its limits?
Posted May 28, 2013
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Sogi-Ya: Chrono Trigger was latter (and still sold a lot) ... but neither really pushed the SNES in what it could do.
Chrono Trigger didn't really push the SNES in what it could do??

Please name me one JRPG released in the western world that pushed the SNES further than Chrono. :)

And it has to be released in the west (i.e. Super NES, not just Super Famicom)... so that automatically counts out ToP, Star Ocean & Far East of Eden.

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Sogi-Ya: I think of it as more mid gen than late, Chrono Trigger was latter (and still sold a lot) ... but neither really pushed the SNES in what it could do.
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Elmofongo: Whoa really, I put Super Metroid up there so what do you suggest pushed the SNES to its limits?
Re pushing SNES to its limits = Exactly. See further up in this post ;)

====================================================================================

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Elmofongo: Yet Final Fantasy 6 was released at the late side of the SNES cycle and it sold alot.
Maybe because - at the time of its release - the western FF fans thought FF VI was the next FF release after FF IV.

(Thanks to the renaming of FF IV as FF II and FF VI as FF III - I understand that renaming confused a lot of western fans when FF VII came out - it was like oh help what happened to FF 4 to 6?! LOL)
Post edited May 28, 2013 by DRM_free_fan
Posted May 28, 2013
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DRM_free_fan: I think FF7 is the most over-rated in the series. But not for the ending ...... Also some FF fans actually preferred a) playing FF in a sci-fi environment and b) having their playable/party characters (mostly) human. So they loved FF 7 & 8 and then many of them turned down 9 when it came along - simply because 9 was so different in style to the previous 2 releases (even though it was more of a return to the roots of FF 1-6)
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Elmofongo: Not me, medieval enviornment all the way(Though I like Final Fantasy 7) even though you see sci fi stuff in XII and I criticize that a lot, at least you don't see to often in your face.

I hate Sci Fi settings in Final Fantasy because they look dare I say it, stupid and illogiacal.

Worse is Final Fantasy 13, its to alien and weird for me in a bad way.

Again at least 7 never made me hate the setting.
IMO you and I are in the minority of FF fans. :)

I note with dismay that the last few installments of the FF franchise seem to be steering away from the pseudo-medieval RPG environments. It seems that Square Enix has decided that the sci-fi FFs are more popular. :( (For the purpose of my argument I'm only looking at the "main" FF releases - I'm not counting all the re-releases of old FFs nor any of the FF spin-off series e.g. Crystal Chronicles)

You mentioned there is sci-fi stuff in XII? (I wouldn't know - see a much earlier post for the reason) Without giving away any plot spoilers - I have to know: Do you mean seriously sci-fi? Or just a few steam-punk devices (e.g. air-ships)?


=========================================================================================

This is slightly off the thread topic but anyway

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Sogi-Ya: visuals suffer from late-gen restraints when the developers had the next gen capabilities in mind.
Huh? Speaking of console games in general - usually games released near the end of a consoles life usually have the best graphics of any games on that system.

My theory is that this is due to the fact that the first few games released on console X are made by developers who haven't really got a "feel" (for want of a better word) of the limitations of said console.
Whereas games released near the end - the developers have got to know the limitations/flaws of the system and in some cases find a way to work around them.

An example to illustrate my point - take the N64. Compare screenshots of an early game e.g. Super Mario 64 with games released near the end of its lifespan e.g. Banjo-Tooie, Conkers BFD.
Post edited May 28, 2013 by DRM_free_fan
Posted May 28, 2013
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DRM_free_fan: You mentioned there is sci-fi stuff in XII? (I wouldn't know - see a much earlier post for the reason) Without giving away any plot spoilers - I have to know: Do you mean seriously sci-fi? Or just a few steam-punk devices (e.g. air-ships)?
The latter.

Also, about the Agito trademark (a.k.a. Type-0 HD) and XII IZJS HD - both desperately need to happen in the west. Hopefully we'll have more info on E3.
Posted May 28, 2013
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Elmofongo: Not me, medieval enviornment all the way(Though I like Final Fantasy 7) even though you see sci fi stuff in XII and I criticize that a lot, at least you don't see to often in your face.

I hate Sci Fi settings in Final Fantasy because they look dare I say it, stupid and illogiacal.

Worse is Final Fantasy 13, its to alien and weird for me in a bad way.

Again at least 7 never made me hate the setting.
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DRM_free_fan: IMO you and I are in the minority of FF fans. :)

I note with dismay that the last few installments of the FF franchise seem to be steering away from the pseudo-medieval RPG environments. It seems that Square Enix has decided that the sci-fi FFs are more popular. :( (For the purpose of my argument I'm only looking at the "main" FF releases - I'm not counting all the re-releases of old FFs nor any of the FF spin-off series e.g. Crystal Chronicles)

You mentioned there is sci-fi stuff in XII? (I wouldn't know - see a much earlier post for the reason) Without giving away any plot spoilers - I have to know: Do you mean seriously sci-fi? Or just a few steam-punk devices (e.g. air-ships)?

=========================================================================================

This is slightly off the thread topic but anyway

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Sogi-Ya: visuals suffer from late-gen restraints when the developers had the next gen capabilities in mind.
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DRM_free_fan: Huh? Speaking of console games in general - usually games released near the end of a consoles life usually have the best graphics of any games on that system.

My theory is that this is due to the fact that the first few games released on console X are made by developers who haven't really got a "feel" (for want of a better word) of the limitations of said console.
Whereas games released near the end - the developers have got to know the limitations/flaws of the system and in some cases find a way to work around them.

An example to illustrate my point - take the N64. Compare screenshots of an early game e.g. Super Mario 64 with games released near the end of its lifespan e.g. Banjo-Tooie, Conkers BFD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A_q7HcSMqA

Watch the whole thing and than you will understand.
Posted May 28, 2013
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Sogi-Ya: I think of it as more mid gen than late, Chrono Trigger was latter (and still sold a lot) ... but neither really pushed the SNES in what it could do.
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Elmofongo: Whoa really, I put Super Metroid up there so what do you suggest pushed the SNES to its limits?
Starfox?

The SNES was a 2D powerhouse, but it polygons were a bit much.

The PS1 could do simple geometry but it had problems with more complex shapes and textures, FF9 WAS pushing for full 3D environment (or atleast full-er) and had more complex textures; it was great for a PS1 title but it would have been better on the PS2.

With FF12 I would say the PS2's ram limits held it back, they tried to cram way too much on screen and had to reduce texture resolution & AA to get it to work; the main character looked like skeletor because it fucked up the texture shading on his chest & face, while jagged edges were all over the place.

It's not about these being "bad" issues, just that it could have been "better".
Posted May 28, 2013
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Elmofongo: Whoa really, I put Super Metroid up there so what do you suggest pushed the SNES to its limits?
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Sogi-Ya: Starfox?

The SNES was a 2D powerhouse, but it polygons were a bit much.

The PS1 could do simple geometry but it had problems with more complex shapes and textures, FF9 WAS pushing for full 3D environment (or atleast full-er) and had more complex textures; it was great for a PS1 title but it would have been better on the PS2.

With FF12 I would say the PS2's ram limits held it back, they tried to cram way too much on screen and had to reduce texture resolution & AA to get it to work; the main character looked like skeletor because it fucked up the texture shading on his chest & face, while jagged edges were all over the place.

It's not about these being "bad" issues, just that it could have been "better".
Wow and I still find it amazing how Capcom made Resident Evil Outbreak the best looking game on the PS2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhTb-806OSo
Posted May 28, 2013
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Elmofongo: Whoa really, I put Super Metroid up there so what do you suggest pushed the SNES to its limits?
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Sogi-Ya: Starfox?

The SNES was a 2D powerhouse, but it polygons were a bit much.
Well, quite. If a game's on the http://www.pocketheaven.com/ph/wiki/SNES_games_with_special_chips or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_NES_enhancement_chips#List_of_Super_NES_games_that_use_enhancement_chips list, it's not using the basic SNES hardware on its own.
Post edited May 28, 2013 by VanishedOne
Posted May 28, 2013
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Elmofongo: I am surprised and a little saddened that Final Fantasy XII, my absolute favorite Final Fantasy game, is considered bad by a good majority a fans to the point that they say Final Fantasy X was the last good one and XII was the start of the downward spiral of bad games. But I just like to ask why, why is don't you like Final Fantasy XII, what was wrong with it, give me complete details in comparison to past games so I can see why and try to rebuttle.
If Final Fantasy X is considered good, then I'd hate to play any of the others. FFX is the only one I've played and I'm pretty sure it made me insane. Let's start with the disgusting wormy idiot main character. Tidus is annoying, obnoxious and a magnet for my fists. I got what they were going for, a somewhat spoiled kid learning to grow up and dealing with his daddy-issues, and I commend them for that. It's a nice story hook and rife with potential for drama. It's just that the execution was horrible. And the grinding AND the endless, endless ENDLESS battles every time you take a few steps. True, that can be countered by certain items, but not readily and fuck me running did it make me rage. I actually liked a lot of individual things about the game, but in total it was an abrasive slog.
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General discussion (archive)Why do people hate Final Fantasy XII?(119 posts)(119 posts)
(119 posts)