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General discussion (archive)What is the difference between 30 and 60 fps?(69 posts)(69 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted January 13, 2014
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fr33kSh0w2012: The human Eye can not process anything faster then 25 Frames per second FACT! so 30 FPS looks exactly the same as 60 FPS there is no difference unless it is a fast paced First Person Shooter.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate
But it can see motion blurring in real life that isn't part of still frames, that makes the extra frames convey more visual information about what has happened within that 30th of a second.


More to the point in real life 1/30th of a second is the aggregate of everything that has happened in that 30th, which is not what a game shows, but why it works in movies which is also an aggregate. Extra frames gives extra data to start filling in those missing pieces.
Post edited January 13, 2014 by gooberking
Posted January 13, 2014
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JustSayin: So the human eye can't tell the difference unless it can?
No it cannot but in fast pacing as in running around a lot it can

frames-per-second.appspot.com

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fr33kSh0w2012: The human Eye can not process anything faster then 25 Frames per second FACT! so 30 FPS looks exactly the same as 60 FPS there is no difference unless it is a fast paced First Person Shooter.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate
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gooberking: But it can see motion blurring in real life that isn't part of still frames, that makes the extra frames convey more visual information about what has happened within that 30th of a second.

More to the point in real life 1/30th of a second is the aggregate of everything that has happened in that 30th, which is not what a game shows, but why it works in movies which is also an aggregate. Extra frames gives extra data to start filling in those missing pieces.
Yes that's what I meant.
Post edited January 13, 2014 by fr33kSh0w2012
Posted January 13, 2014
In my experience a smooth 30fps seems to have a cinematic like motion. 60fps things move pretty quickly. The motion is more akin to the kind of motion you'd see on a live sporting event.
Posted January 13, 2014
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fr33kSh0w2012: The human Eye can not process anything faster then 25 Frames per second FACT! so 30 FPS looks exactly the same as 60 FPS there is no difference unless it is a fast paced First Person Shooter.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate
Yea, fact. Wikipedia. LOL.

There is an easily noticeable difference between 60 and 120. Don't even mention 30, everything looks like crap with it. (best way to test if you have the equipment, make sure you focus on something and you're static, let the objects move at 60 and 120. Keep focused and try to compare, you'll immediately notice that 120 is buttery smooth, while 60 stutters.)

EDIT: While it can be argued whether this is relevant since at first it seems such a small detail, when you spend a long time on 120, and you get your mind-set right, when you go back to 60 you'll immediately see that things are stuttering. Unless you have crap eyes, with which even 15 FPS is too much.
Post edited January 13, 2014 by Elenarie
Posted January 13, 2014
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fr33kSh0w2012: The human Eye can not process anything faster then 25 Frames per second FACT! so 30 FPS looks exactly the same as 60 FPS there is no difference unless it is a fast paced First Person Shooter.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate
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Elenarie: Yea, fact. Wikipedia. LOL.

There is an easily noticeable difference between 60 and 120. Don't even mention 30, everything looks like crap with it. (best way to test if you have the equipment, make sure you focus on something and you're static, let the objects move at 60 and 120. Keep focused and try to compare, you'll immediately notice that 120 is buttery smooth, while 60 stutters.)

EDIT: While it can be argued whether this is relevant since at first it seems such a small detail, when you spend a long time on 120, and you get your mind-set right, when you go back to 60 you'll immediately see that things are stuttering. Unless you have crap eyes, with which even 15 FPS is too much.
My monitor is stuck at 60 FPS so it doesn't matter what happens! all games only go at 60 FPS for me!
Post edited January 13, 2014 by fr33kSh0w2012
Posted January 13, 2014
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fr33kSh0w2012: My monitor is stuck at 60 FPS so it doesn't matter what happens! all games only go at 60 FPS for me!
Understandable, which is why I said if one has the equipment.
Posted January 14, 2014
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fr33kSh0w2012: My monitor is stuck at 60 FPS so it doesn't matter what happens! all games only go at 60 FPS for me!
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Elenarie: Understandable, which is why I said if one has the equipment.
yes very Fluid!
Posted January 14, 2014
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fr33kSh0w2012: The human Eye can not process anything faster then 25 Frames per second FACT! so 30 FPS looks exactly the same as 60 FPS there is no difference unless it is a fast paced First Person Shooter.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate
You have just contradicted yourself. I can tell the difference between 20 or 30 or 40. 60 has long been the standard for twitch gaming and it's for a reason.
Post edited January 14, 2014 by scampywiak
Posted January 14, 2014
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fr33kSh0w2012: The human Eye can not process anything faster then 25 Frames per second FACT! so 30 FPS looks exactly the same as 60 FPS there is no difference unless it is a fast paced First Person Shooter.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate
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scampywiak: You have just contradicted yourself. I can tell the difference between 20 or 30 or 40. 60 has long been the standard for twitch gaming and it's for a reason.
You can actually See that! I can't then again I have eyesight problems!
Posted January 14, 2014
No one plays Street Fighter at anything below 60 FPS without problems. Not high level play. Same with shooters. I've experimented extensively and once there is a 10 FPS change I can notice it in the 20-40 range. Maintaining 60 is simply a safe guard if you want the best results. Once you get down to 20 you will have issues with any action/twitch game. It will be very noticeable and the player will have to manually compensate for the lag. Below 20, forget it. You're getting a slide show.
Posted January 14, 2014
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Fever_Discordia: Films are only 24fps and the Hobbit (the new, second one) experimented with some screenings showing a 48fps and audiences thought it looked weird
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/hobbit-desolation-smaug-48-frames-655444

So 30fps should be plenty, really!
Part of the reason why The Hobbit looked a bit off in 48FPS was becuase many of the tricks that are used to hide the fact that the special effects are not "real" don't work as well in 48FPS as they did in 24. New methods need to be developed, but movies will look smoother once they have adopted to the new format .


30fps is fully playable, 60 fps looks smoother (how noticeable it is depends a lot on the game). You can also train yourself to notice these things (though don't, not if you want to enjoy movies)
Posted January 14, 2014
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scampywiak: No one plays Street Fighter at anything below 60 FPS without problems. Not high level play. Same with shooters. I've experimented extensively and once there is a 10 FPS change I can notice it in the 20-40 range. Maintaining 60 is simply a safe guard if you want the best results. Once you get down to 20 you will have issues with any action/twitch game. It will be very noticeable and the player will have to manually compensate for the lag. Below 20, forget it. You're getting a slide show.
Okay I see!
Posted January 14, 2014
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Fever_Discordia: Films are only 24fps and the Hobbit (the new, second one) experimented with some screenings showing a 48fps and audiences thought it looked weird
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/hobbit-desolation-smaug-48-frames-655444
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AFnord: Part of the reason why The Hobbit looked a bit off in 48FPS was becuase many of the tricks that are used to hide the fact that the special effects are not "real" don't work as well in 48FPS as they did in 24. New methods need to be developed, but movies will look smoother once they have adopted to the new format .
+ many people have become used to thinking of 24FPS as "cinematic" and higher framerates as looking like home video or TV shows.

Think of low framerates as a form of aliasing.
Motion blur is like FXAA. Destroys some detail in order to eliminate some aliasing.
Higher framerates are like higher resolutions.
24fps is like 640x480... and looks about as bad on a large / close up screen :P
Post edited January 14, 2014 by DreadMoth
Posted January 14, 2014
To people discussing how smooth the scene looks at different FPS, that's not the important issue for switch gaming, latency is. The slower the frame rate, the longer it takes between the player's action and the response to it.
Posted January 14, 2014
I really have to wonder what kind of eyes some people have. I can see the jaggedness even at 60 FPS, but that's the refresh rate of my screen, so more FPS would b meaningless for me. 30 FPS is just acceptable for slow games lie RPGs, but anything that requires fast reflexes like a racing game or FPS game are a pain at 30 FPS. Before I even knew what FPS are I had played Need for Speed on GameCube and there was always something off that made me react much slower. I didn't have that sort of problem in Mario Kart or racing games on PC, and guess what... they were running at 60 FPS. Even if you don't know about FPS, it still affects you.

The reason why movies get away with it is naturally occuring motion blur. Time in the universe is, as far as we know at least, continuous, the universe does not have discrete "ticks" or "timeframes". When recording a video each frame does not capture a "moment", it captures a stretch of time, a time during which things keep moving. This causes the image to become blurry, and because this happens every frame the accumulated blur effects make the movie look smoother when played and give it nicer feeling. Without this naturally occurring effect movies would look horribly choppy, like a flipbook. Even cartoons do this: freeze a cartoon an TV and you will often see a faded copy of the previous frame. Since there is no natural motion blur here it has to be inserted artificially.

The human eye is fairly good at seeing speed, it has to be this good for a predatory life form. Saying that humans can't see the difference beyond 24 FPS is BS. And more importantly for games: Your brain can tell the difference.
Post edited January 14, 2014 by HiPhish
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Community
General discussion (archive)What is the difference between 30 and 60 fps?(69 posts)(69 posts)
(69 posts)