Nah, it's more like the tale of the Ugly Duckling only it gets bullied to death the moment it discovers it's a swan.


/spoiler

Well, 4 new games just got greenlit

Fract OSC
Haunt
Inquisitor
Rogue Legacy

I do not have any problems with this process, there is a lot of diversity on the games getting through. Hopefully this means Fract OSC will be released soon, they keep pushing back the release date...

Ehhmm... wheren't they refused access to Steam? and why should the new Apogee get to put the new ROTT on Steam without having to go through Greenlight when Adult Swim can't put this on Steam without going through Greenlight? Just because this ha(d)/(s) a Greenlight page?

You may not have a problem with the process but some developers do.
I still think it's bullshit that Dave Gilbert from WadjetEye games has had to submit more than one game through Greenlight and even after those make the cut Valve has told him that maybe the next Blackwell game will finally be able to skip the process.

Well, I don't want to make anyone upset with me but it does seem reasonable to me if a developer begins the Greenlight process that they stick to it and either get approved or not. I can understand Valve not wanting to send a message that it is okay to bail on Greenlight which then has a resultant impact on Greenlight over time, namely that you could vote for something and be looking forward to it and then it goes away to some publisher who may or may not make an acceptable deal with Steam, assuming Valve feels the game is worth selling to begin with.

The people at Valve invest time in Greenlight games, checking on reviews, setting up their pages, etc. and I don't think it is right to bail for perceived greener pastures once both parties enter that arrangement. I think that is how Valve sees it from what I read on the OP's linked article.

The developer of the game in question still has the option of going through Greenlight and if they cut the mustard, they'll be on Steam. If they don't, then at least as far as Valve is concerned (and it is their right to choose ultimately) they don't belong on Steam for whatever reasons. Which brings to mind another issue. I can see Valve wanting to retain some control and gain some feedback on what indies they take on. It is a waste of their time and resources to take on an indie that sucks or nobody cares about. Greenlight is a proving ground of sorts. I think that is fair enough.

When something like this comes up I think it might be too easy to forget that Valve has in fact done quite a lot for indie developers and to help legitimize indie games over time. I do not see them as the bad guys just because they set up some rules to go by.

Well now isn't that the crap icing on the dog poo cake. =(

yeah, there are still some kinks that needs ironing out, but the principle behind, I think, does seem to work nicely. I was afraid when it began that it will get shiny MP FPS's through, but the community seems to be diverse enough to get through everything. It is still a process not done before, and it has not been live a full year yet (?). The biggest problem for me there are all the bloody stupid comments...

Is it a popularity contest? Certainly, it is the whole point, the most popular games get through. Sometimes there is a game that catches Valve's eyes, and it get picked up. It is a shame the developer of DRM pulled his game of, but it seem he may come back when those kinks have been fixed.

It is a shame
As far as I understand this - Code Avarice believed that signing up with Adult Swim would get them straight out of Greenlight and onto Steam. When Valve got the application it seems that they said "No, we can see that you are in the Greenlight process, and will therefore need to complete it".

So they have not been refused access to Steam, they have been refused instant access to Steam.

re. Apogee - Steam is also a privately owned retailer, and they and do as they please. They think that the Apogee game will make them many monies, and will therefore be sold there. Same reason why they sometimes picks a game out of Greenlight themselves also. They are, after all, a business, not a charity.

Indeed.
Maybe the matter is that the players and devs had put too much hope in Greenlight being the democratic space for promoting indie game. We can´t forget that is Valve rules and they do whatever they want, simply that. And I believe they are just warning the devs that free publicity on Greenlight is not an option. It´s sad? Yes it is, but we shouldn´t be expecting different.

But that's part of the whole fucking problem. What rules? Valve don't make any rules clear to devs using Greenlight. They make the rules up as when it pleases them (and then they don't share the rules with the people who need to know them).

This is why several other developers pulled their games from Greenlight today in protest.

Drakensang 2 and 3. Valve pulled them from Greenlight and... surprise! They are still restricted.

Different circumstances and not really anything to do with Greenlight. That said, you'll find next to no Japanese games getting greenlit. The main reason being that the "community" is so fucking racist towards the developers that many will no longer bother. That coupled with a huge distrust of Valve -- due to how they treat customers here -- has pretty much put an end to most wanting to try. Valve did try to push Greenlight in Japan at some indie convention here, but they failed to take into account how damaging the "community" is.

As much as i like using steam , i am hating the greenlight process, there should be a better way to handle indie games

Why is it bad that people aren't allowed to game the system? Frankly, I don't care who they've caught the attention of or who they know. If people could get onto steam based on connections, isn't that a bit corrupt? If their game is any good, then maybe they'll be able to get onto steam based on their own merits, which is far fairer imo.

Guess it wasn't Greenlight, but I remember you saying something about a game being published in the west but not in Japan, or at least not on PC, and a dev trying to get the rights back from Capcom or whoever had the publishing rights over there, and were sitting on them, to be able to release it. That's why I mentioned you.

As for Greenlight, the community is racist against japanese devs? That sucks, but isn't there enough of a community in Japan to get the game through Greenlight without needing someone else?

And, not to poke the bear or anything, but what did Valve do to consumers over there?

1 - Yep, Capcom Japan have the Steam distribution rights in conjunction with another smaller publisher for several Japanese indie games. Capcom Japan won't give the go ahead to sell them. The smaller publisher is powerless to change their mind.

2 - No. There are not enough people in Japan using Steam to even scratch the surface of what Valve wants when Greenlighting a game. As I say, most customers are under the impression that even if they vote, the game will not be made available in Japan. No surprise that. when you consider Japan has the highest amount of regional restrictions due to publishers (both main and indie) not allowing their games to be sold here.

3 - It's not so much what Valve did (at least to begin with) it's what they didn't do. They didn't negotiate with Japanese publishers to release games on Steam, while doing so for basically every other region. Such as EA. They still won't even approach EA Japan. Valve then started requiring a CERO rating despite the fact that CERO doesn't specifically rate PC games. PC games don't even need to go through CERO to be sold digitally. This is why EA can sell uncut versions of Dead Space in Japan without a CERO rating. It's also why several other games (Deus Ex Human Revolution/Saints Row The Third, Fallout 3, etc.) are uncut on the PC. The problem with CERO is that it's VERY expensive to get a rating. An indie PC game is not going to make that cost back. That's why several games (such as The Baconing) are not available on Steam here. Publisher decided they wouldn't make the CERO costs back.

And to make it even worse, it's now come to light that Valve apparently also have two rules dealing with worldwide distribution -

i - Unless stated otherwise sell in any country except Japan.
ii - Unless stated otherwise DON'T sell in Japan even when a publisher/developer states worldwide release

This means developers/publishers who really want to sell in Japan will have to specifically state it. But it also appears that some are not even made aware of this rule.

Then there's the Steam store front itself. It's often advertising false availability here. Even right now for example.

http://store.steampowered.com/?cc=jp -- Watch the rotating banner. Notice Grid 2 claiming Pre-Purchase Now! Visit the store page and you'll find you can't pre-purchase it. There's no buy button. The game doesn't release for several months yet. This happens more often than it doesn't.

Steam support simply tell people to check the news for information about upcoming releases. I can only recall 2 maybe 3 times when the news has specifically mentioned a new release for Japan. Most of them are never advertised. How can people here trust a store that goes out of its way to provide false information and to not provide actual release information? Did you see the news item mentioning the release of the Japanese language pack for Tomb Raider (released only in Japan)? No. Neither did anyone in Japan.

As for developers, several were also concerned over Valve's cut. Especially if they need to also go through a third party to localise their game. Many cited Recettear as an example -- although that one isn't a good example as Japan sales are a normal split between Valve and EGS only. But they don't like the idea of Valve taking a 30% cut if they then have to lose another cut to a third party.

Which ones ?