So what do you think will remain? Both, only one? Which of them?

I see potential in both, but due to Unity 3D needing Flash it will depend on many factors, including if license fees will apply for either and how high they are.

Heck, I'd go with Torque if it wouldn't be so overly complicated. But I can see how this is great for teams where you have a modeller and a programmer and a graphics artist.
And then Torque 2D or standard Flash or HTML5 also let you do stuff in 2D. But I guess there Torque is the most powerful tool again. Or maybe some RPGMaker/GameMaker/WhateverMaker.

I have actually no clue what I write about, I only tried Torque so far, not the other both. But from a gamer point of view, all should somehow remain.

Anyway. Skip the text. TLDR: What is the best software to programme a game in? And what will ultimately survive as more than a niché?

Native code has so far allowed for the best performance, and I don't see that changing in a good while.

For simple enough games, it doesn't matter much; but given enough calculations (for AI, graphics, physics, audio, ...), it does.

I bet on HTML5 since it's supported by companies like Microsoft and Apple. Also you don't need a third party interpreter or plugin to run the software made with it.

Is there any data to support this? Torque is pretty much dead.

JavaFX w/ Groovy is your answer.

Gentleman, YOU introduced me to Torque!

What does Unity 3D have to do with Flash? If you really want to do Unity development and deploy to the web you should use the Unity Web player plugin seeing as the Flash/Adobe Stage 3D export has a lot of limitations compared to the integrated player.

Or even better, if you want to run native code why export to the web at all?

In my mind commercial software = native code, and not some silly web-app that can't do more than 30% (if it's done by great developers) of a native application.

As for Flash vs HTLM5, so far the hardware acceleration for HTML5 has been really hit and miss on a lot of platforms (especially when it comes to video). Overall, both technologies have advantages over the other so it depends on what you want to build: if great scripting and perfect rendering (fonts, images, etc.) is important then stick to flash, otherwise if more general access is important go with HTML5.

A thing to note though is that a lot of Flash's bad name is due to developers who would write crappy code no matter the language. I for one am extremely scared of the future of HTML5 development once these guys switch, because if you could get away with bad code relatively decently with Flash, the same does not apply to HTML5.

Also, Protoss, for the love of god, quote like a normal person with your reply beneath the quote! The reason for this is that someone might not read the whole thread so it's just normal to answer after providing the context of what you're talking about/addressing.

Yeah, but I also noted at the time that they were about to stop supporting it (which I think may now have happened already). Also, it's irrelevant to your initial question which was about languages, not editors.

And as someone else just said, please dude, put your quote above the reply >.<

Well, until there is a Madness Combat installment to be release somewhere in Nevada, I consider HTML5 less than a useless gimmick as for rich web contents enjoyment :-P

Well, my friend, who is web developer says, that html5 may be much more cpu consumming than flash, and I believe him. Also, I've seen it on my PC.

I'm not denying that it may be the case, I'd just be interested to see actual data, as it's entirely possible that the difference in speed you encountered could have been in a difference in quality of build between the two versions. Afterall, they've had a lot more time and experience with the Flash version to get it right.

At this stage I have no personal preference. I dislike Adobe in general, as logically most people on this forum would. A full suite of Adobe software costs thousands of dollars, creating an impassable barrier to entry for many aspiring designers, illustrators, programmers and web developers who have no choice but to use their products in accordance with industry standards. If the standards were to shift to cheaper alternatives with better licencing agreements, that could only be a good thing, provided the alternatives were of comparable quality.

At the same time, html5 is still too new for me to know whether it has the capacity to serve as a valid alternative to Flash apps (and of course people will still be using photoshop regardless). Only time and hard data will tell.

From I undtestdant it, html5 has many advantages over flash, but it's in early stage of developement now, maybe in future it would be better optimized.

Torque is doing just fine, no way are they discontinuing Torque 2D it's probably more popular than Torque 3D ... or at least iTorque 2D is, which is a branch of Torque 2D and thus making the parent program still viable for development.

Even without iTorque, SPAZ had to have generated quite a spike in T2D licenses.

BTW - https://store.unity3d.com/index.html add features for Android and iOs are free till sunday (8.4)

Also I find this quite nice article about HTML5 games - http://www.photonstorm.com/archives/2759/the-reality-of-html5-game-development-and-making-money-from-it