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mondo84: And I should correct myself - in LoL 1 you have a couple characters join and leave your party along the way, but it's probably wrong of me to call them NPCs because while they're in your party you control them as you do your main character. I'm not sure what the proper term would be, though, or if there is one.
They're called companions, I think?
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mondo84: And I should correct myself - in LoL 1 you have a couple characters join and leave your party along the way, but it's probably wrong of me to call them NPCs because while they're in your party you control them as you do your main character. I'm not sure what the proper term would be, though, or if there is one.
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ChrisSD: They're called companions, I think?
Haha yea, that's it. I was trying to think of something more specific, but that seems right.

My brain isn't working today.
I also tend to dislike the bully-like "i owe everything" tendencies of RPG player characters. Entering everywhere, picking up everything, the more advancd the RPG engine is the more unrealistic your behaviour gets. You miss game content if you don't feel like entering every house and bedroom to ask for a quest, or opening every cupboard for some handy magical weapon or a couple potions.

I also dislike how, in most RPGs, you end up levelled into some sort of horned battlemech with rotative axes. In most fictions, adventures and combats are cloak-and-daggerey, based on finesse, fencing, agility. In most games, being a decent fighter just means having a thick enough armour and a heavy enough broadsword, and getting muscular enough to get stuck in doors. It's basically the three musqueteers with d'Artagnan replaced by a panzer.

That's okay for the bad guy, but I can't really relate to an incarnated protagonist perpetually stumbling around like some fat creaky robocop.
My major pet peeve when it comes to RPGs (mainy JRPGs, I guess) is the discrepancy between combat mechanics and "real world" physics. A character can survive several Firaga's to the face, but can't cross a teensy fire barrier in a cut scene? Characters die all the time in battle (items/spells "revive" them or "bring them back to life"), but a character killed in a cut scene is killed for good? For Pete's sake, did they even try to use a Phoenix Down on Aeris or a Soft on Red XIII's father (or their spell equivalents)?

A few games work around this, but most games don't, and it can get so ridiculous sometimes that my suspension of disbelief gets shattered beyond repair, and I start poking fun at a game even during its serious/sad moments. I tend to be more forgiving now, but back in the day, I was punching holes even in games I loved because of that silliness.
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Cormoran: I don't like that all the best gear is ancient and hidden away in some place that would ruin that gear if it stayed there for longer than a few weeks, let alone the tens/hundreds/thousands of years they expect you believe it's been laying there.
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Nirth: I like that part, as long as the reason for them being more powerful is magic or some other force, the time has just increased that strength. However a non-magic armor being trapped in an dungeon for 1000 of years is another matter entirely.
To me it makes the worlds feel incredibly stagnant. Not only does it expect me to believe that weapon technology has gone nowhere, or even worse gone backwards in these worlds, but I also have to believe that none of the other thousands of adventurers traipsing about haven't already found it and either used it themselves, hoarded it or sold it off to a merchant.
This is something found primarily in fantasy RPGs, but it bugs me in every one of them: useless or underpowered ranged classes/weapons. Now, ranged classes aren't my favorite, but I like to play as them because they are different from what I'm most comfortable with. I like the idea of attacking from afar and, in party-based RPGs, standing back from the rest of the group and picking off enemies. Unfortunately, I've yet to find an RPG that does this well, and I'll use three specific RPGs as an example.

Morrowind. I have many problems with this game, so maybe this isn't the fairest example, but I'll use it anyway. I've tried many different approaches to this game, and one of those was as a thief/archer. Unfortunately, this turned out to be a horrible combination because the stealth system doesn't work very well (in that it's very picky about how it'll let you raise the sneaking stat) and archery is subject to the same dice rolling system that the rest of the combat is. This means that not only do you risk wasting arrows every time you shoot (even if the arrow clearly makes contact with your targets body, it doesn't always count as a hit), but you aren't going to do much damage when you do. I actually found it much better to attack with daggers, even though my archery skill was pretty high and that is what I had been (trying) to focus on.

Oblivion. Same series, I know, but I had hoped that since this game doesn't use the dice-rolling combat system from Morrowind, it would remove some of the frustration. And it did, for a while. However, if any form of combat in this game makes the weird leveling system obvious, it is archery, because as you level, enemies level. Apparently, though, the archery skill doesn't keep pace, and it got to where I was sinking a couple dozen arrows into some of the enemies I came across, and these weren't even particularly powerful ones. Even the critical bonus you get when you attack an unaware enemy is half of what you get with a melee hit. Sure, I understand that it is much easier to hit an enemy from afar than it is to hit them up close, but when ranged weapons do less damage from the start, it is all the more frustrating.

Dragon Age: Origins. Let me start by saying that I chose an archery focused Elf Warrior. Perhaps not the best combination, but since it was possible it should be equally viable. I found it to be incredibly difficult, however, to the point where it was almost impossible to play the game on the Normal difficulty. Every battle required extensive micromanagement of every one of my party members, and even then it was common for me to barely survive a battle. While there were certainly other factors involved, most of my problems stemmed from the fact that my Elf Warrior couldn't contribute very well to a battle. What, specifically, though, was the problem? Well, I don't remember my exact stats, but my Dexterity (which, based on the stat description, affected ranged attacks) was higher than my Strength (which affects melee attacks). I had raised my Strength a bit early on because I wanted to be able hold my own if an enemy got too close, but my Dexterity was still always higher. However, it wasn't until I was over half-way through the game that my damage with a bow and arrow was noticeably higher than the damage I did with a sword, and even then I don't think it was on par with the melee damage my other party members inflicted. This made combat incredibly frustrating because my character's only significant contribution to combat for a good portion of the game was special attacks, and I could only do so many of those before I ran out of stamina. Later in the game I was able to pick up the slack a little bit, but it was still annoying that I felt so underpowered for so much of the game.

Now, I haven't played a whole lot of fantasy RPGs, and there are probably quite a few that do archery right. But in my experience, it is seriously underpowered.
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Daedalus1138: This is something found primarily in fantasy RPGs, but it bugs me in every one of them: useless or underpowered ranged classes/weapons. Now, ranged classes aren't my favorite, but I like to play as them because they are different from what I'm most comfortable with. I like the idea of attacking from afar and, in party-based RPGs, standing back from the rest of the group and picking off enemies. Unfortunately, I've yet to find an RPG that does this well, and I'll use three specific RPGs as an example.
Morrowind.
[snip]
Oblivion.
[snip]
Have you played Skyrim, though? :) I couldn't get into Morrowind or Oblivion (tried several times, just can't seem to get immersed), but I've sunk more hours into Skyrim than I would care to mention, and my main character is a stealthy archer. I've encountered no frustration/problems whatsoever, despite the fact that my aiming is usually awful when I have to do it manually. The game's aiming system and perks compensate for my own failings, and you can be the deadliest assassin ever, 1-hit sniping your victim from afar. :)
Also, Dragon's Dogma has an excellent archer class which is both effective and fun to play, and the mixed archer/mage class is actually considered by many as the most powerful in the game.
And there's the Fable series, of course. The ranged combat in those games doesn't allow for as much finesse as Skyrim, but you can snipe your enemies. I usually focus on ranged combat in the Fable's, with some magic for crowd control if I mess up.

If I come up with other examples of fantasy RPGs with ranged gameplay I've enjoyed, I'll add them :)
Post edited December 16, 2013 by Pica-Ludica
I absolutely hate it when NPCs or party members are constantly nagging or bitching about you or are generally ungrateful. Thank you so much, Sire, for saving our whole town from devastation! And thank you so much, Sire, for saving my daughters from that evil poisonous dragon! Too bad you will die soon from poisoning, because you donßt have the 156.782 gold pieces I want for that anti-venom!

And I absolutely hate it when in Fallout 3 everyone starts shouting at you, calling you a thief, as soon as you look at something.
I hate when they have a too simple (or badly done) magic system. I always play as a mage in RPGs and in many it ends up with you only needing to use 1 or 2 spells all the time. Though I can understand since it can be hard to do it properly and very few games manage it.
Post edited December 16, 2013 by Zyzzyzus
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Zyzzyzus: I hate when they have a too simple (or badly done) magic system. I always play as a mage in RPGs and in many it ends up with you only needing to use 1 or 2 spells all the time. Though I can understand since it can be hard to do it properly and very few games manage it.
I used to play a lot of hack-and-slash types but have recently been starting to favour magic-users, so I'd be curious to know which games you recommend for that.

Edit: Also, I notice that you haven't entered my giveaway for new members. You should do that!
Post edited December 16, 2013 by Azilut
I also gree on the simple magic system. Usually just some direct spell or weakening stuff. There's never anything long-term, like spells you can find (or even create!) that you might notice effects of later as you play. Something more intuitive likely would require a more dynamic setting / story / world as when stuff starts to change it would likely make unintentional effect to important people.
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Daedalus1138: This is something found primarily in fantasy RPGs, but it bugs me in every one of them: useless or underpowered ranged classes/weapons. Now, ranged classes aren't my favorite, but I like to play as them because they are different from what I'm most comfortable with. I like the idea of attacking from afar and, in party-based RPGs, standing back from the rest of the group and picking off enemies. Unfortunately, I've yet to find an RPG that does this well, and I'll use three specific RPGs as an example.

Morrowind. I have many problems with this game, so maybe this isn't the fairest example, but I'll use it anyway. I've tried many different approaches to this game, and one of those was as a thief/archer. Unfortunately, this turned out to be a horrible combination because the stealth system doesn't work very well (in that it's very picky about how it'll let you raise the sneaking stat) and archery is subject to the same dice rolling system that the rest of the combat is. This means that not only do you risk wasting arrows every time you shoot (even if the arrow clearly makes contact with your targets body, it doesn't always count as a hit), but you aren't going to do much damage when you do. I actually found it much better to attack with daggers, even though my archery skill was pretty high and that is what I had been (trying) to focus on.

Oblivion. Same series, I know, but I had hoped that since this game doesn't use the dice-rolling combat system from Morrowind, it would remove some of the frustration. And it did, for a while. However, if any form of combat in this game makes the weird leveling system obvious, it is archery, because as you level, enemies level. Apparently, though, the archery skill doesn't keep pace, and it got to where I was sinking a couple dozen arrows into some of the enemies I came across, and these weren't even particularly powerful ones. Even the critical bonus you get when you attack an unaware enemy is half of what you get with a melee hit. Sure, I understand that it is much easier to hit an enemy from afar than it is to hit them up close, but when ranged weapons do less damage from the start, it is all the more frustrating.

Dragon Age: Origins. Let me start by saying that I chose an archery focused Elf Warrior. Perhaps not the best combination, but since it was possible it should be equally viable. I found it to be incredibly difficult, however, to the point where it was almost impossible to play the game on the Normal difficulty. Every battle required extensive micromanagement of every one of my party members, and even then it was common for me to barely survive a battle. While there were certainly other factors involved, most of my problems stemmed from the fact that my Elf Warrior couldn't contribute very well to a battle. What, specifically, though, was the problem? Well, I don't remember my exact stats, but my Dexterity (which, based on the stat description, affected ranged attacks) was higher than my Strength (which affects melee attacks). I had raised my Strength a bit early on because I wanted to be able hold my own if an enemy got too close, but my Dexterity was still always higher. However, it wasn't until I was over half-way through the game that my damage with a bow and arrow was noticeably higher than the damage I did with a sword, and even then I don't think it was on par with the melee damage my other party members inflicted. This made combat incredibly frustrating because my character's only significant contribution to combat for a good portion of the game was special attacks, and I could only do so many of those before I ran out of stamina. Later in the game I was able to pick up the slack a little bit, but it was still annoying that I felt so underpowered for so much of the game.

Now, I haven't played a whole lot of fantasy RPGs, and there are probably quite a few that do archery right. But in my experience, it is seriously underpowered.
Nehrim (a total overhaul mod for Oblivion) does a good job with archery from what I hear. You might want to try it. I didn't play as an archer during my play-through, but I thought the game was FANTASTIC. Really, excellent RPG right there. I would have paid full price for it, but it's completely free, which is mind-boggling.

I actually like the dice-roll system from Morrowind. You have to use your imagination a bit more, but I still like it. It's a bit more "hardcore" and pen-and-paper oriented than a full-out action combat system.

Oh, and the Requiem Roleplaying Overhaul for Skyrim. Does a wonderful job with archery. You can kill pretty much any enemy with one or two arrow strikes. Just don't try to kill someone wearing heavy armor, it's near impossible. But that's what followers are for :)
Post edited December 16, 2013 by fluent2332
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fluent2332: Nehrim (a total overhaul mod for Oblivion) does a good job with archery from what I hear. You might want to try it. I didn't play as an archer during my play-through, but I thought the game was FANTASTIC. Really, excellent RPG right there. I would have paid full price for it, but it's completely free, which is mind-boggling.

I actually like the dice-roll system from Morrowind. You have to use your imagination a bit more, but I still like it. It's a bit more "hardcore" and pen-and-paper oriented than a full-out action combat system.

Oh, and the Requiem Roleplaying Overhaul for Skyrim. Does a wonderful job with archery. You can kill pretty much any enemy with one or two arrow strikes. Just don't try to kill someone wearing heavy armor, it's near impossible. But that's what followers are for :)
I would consider that Oblivion mod, but, sadly, I own the Xbox 360 version, as my computer wasn't capable of handling the game at the time I purchased it.

As for the dice-rolling system, I don't usually mind such systems, but it just didn't feel right in Morrowind. It always seemed like my blows should have connected every time I swung, unless I actually missed. That was actually a reason I enjoyed Oblivion so much more; my own skill at playing the game was just as important as the game's mechanics.
Walking - Gods I can't stand it! If I was able to teleport directly from the quest giver to the mission it MIGHT be fast enough, but maybe not even then. Walking is fine if there's danger, or potential danger, or hidden features, or even just beautiful scenery. But if there's nothing to look at and nothing can happen, then why the hell am I walking? (Hours of gameplay!!). I hate reaching the end of a dungeon and then having to walk all the way back out. (Hours of gameplay!!) Walking was fun when I was 8... and 12... and 17... and 25... but now I'm just sick of it. Tiny's post back in the beginning made me cry. :`(

Hetero White Male - An element that's supposed to be core to CRPGs is choice. The ability to not only make MEANINGFUL choices in the game, but even more, to be able to choose who you are. I want to be able to pick my gender, and race, AND orientation. Why is it that even when I can be non-human, it's still caucasian human? White elf, white dwarf, white halfling, white gnome... Why can't I have purple skin, or green, or polka dot? Why can't I be latin, or black, or asian? Why do so many games lock me into playing a HWM? Yeah, it's easier on the devs to only create one avatar and make the armors fit, but that comes at the cost of playing an avatar you dislike the whole game, and how is that fun?

Sexist Armor - I tire of female armor covering 5% of their bodies, and male armor covering 95% of theirs (in addition to having massively ginormous pauldrons).

Busy Work - We play this game for fun and/or challenge and/or empowerment. Don't tell me the game can't continue until I bring miss peasant a dozen eggs from market and six different flowers from the woods. NWN2s OC royally pissed me off with the insane amount of busywork you had to do before you could even visit the noble's quarter of the city, something that you didn't even need to do.

Looting - Like walking and even mapping, looting was fun when I was a kid. Now it's a chore. Seeing a room full of dead bodies makes me groan at having to loot them all. I would far rather kill ten guys and have one of them hold 100 coins, than each of them hold 10 coins. Ideally, corpses wouldn't have any loot at all, and any reward I got would be from the chest at the back of the room, or the payment from the quest giver.

Mana - I love D&D to pieces, having started playing over 30 years ago. However, I will forever curse their Vancian magic system that trained the world into thinking casters should have limited magic use. Have you ever heard of a game where a 1st level warrior could only swing their sword once per day? Or worse, after swinging, they then had to kill everything else with wands and scrolls? That makes perfect sense, right, a warrior killing everything with magic? Why do casters only get one spell and then have to use weapons the rest of the day? Casters should have infinite casts per day, just as warriors and archers have infinite melee and missile attacks per day.

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chincilla: Related to the whole 'can't open a wooden door because its locked' think, when you enter a dungeon and off to one side is a door that leads RIGHT to where you want to go, but oh no you have to take the long way round!
I once played a module with this very thing. At the end of the first hall was a guy next to a closed grate, behind which was our prize. He then told of us of the seven orbs we had to go off and collect and all the things we had to do in order to get the key from him. I opened the dev console, teleported behind the grate, took the item, and teleported back out. Instead of playing for countless hours, I finished it in five minutes, and I was a HELL of a lot happier. : ) Stupid taunting busywork.

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Reveenka: Oh, another pet peeve - merchants that run out of money indefinitely. Morrowind, I am looking at you.
Did they change this? It's been years since I played but I thought merchant purses refilled every couple of days.
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Zyzzyzus: I hate when they have a too simple (or badly done) magic system. I always play as a mage in RPGs and in many it ends up with you only needing to use 1 or 2 spells all the time. Though I can understand since it can be hard to do it properly and very few games manage it.
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Azilut: I used to play a lot of hack-and-slash types but have recently been starting to favour magic-users, so I'd be curious to know which games you recommend for that.

Edit: Also, I notice that you haven't entered my giveaway for new members. You should do that!
The hack&slash type games don't have great magic systems really. Games based on d&d such as Baldurs Gate and NWN have the best magic systems. I suppose any action RPG can't really have too complicated a magic system or it wouldn't be very actiony.