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JMich: Will the memory coolers leave enough clearance for the cooler?
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Fenixp: Dear lord, what kind of memory sticks from hell do you use to require dedicated cooling?
I'm on a laptop, but I have seen quite a few memory sticks with coolers on top of them. Usually means that you can't use all the RAM sockets though, and I'm not sure if they are needed or not.
Maybe someone else could tell us if we need coolers for the memory sticks? And what about the Hard Disks? I recall the Velociraptor's are 2.5" HDDs in a 3.5" frame, since they all come with a cooler. Do they need an extra HDD cooler or are they ok?
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Fenixp: Dear lord, what kind of memory sticks from hell do you use to require dedicated cooling?

You do forget the minigame of 'Crap, where the fuck do I slot my HDD now?' associated with 'Will there be enough room for GPU?' tho :-P

Sounds like someone who ran out of arguments.
They aren't "arguments", I gave you sound reasoning as to why it's better to use a PC (assembled yourself or not), and you just gave walls of text about weird personal examples which make no sense.

I might as well cook up some tale about a really smart millionaire who had perfect grades in school, graduated top of his class, finished his 4-year business degree in 2, invented something innovative that made him rich. And oh btw he also doesn't like PC's because of some random connectivity issues which are obviously the fault of his internet connection herp derp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
Look at me, ma! I'm an elitist jerks and THIS is the ONLY way that you can have fun!
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Crosmando: ...
Yes, because I have made all the arguments I wanted to and believed you need an example to back it up. I don't make shit up for no reason, but it's up to you whether or not you wish to believe me - point is, the example I gave is perfectly possible and reasonable, even if you do take away his intelligence. There are just people who prefer to spend their time with other things. If they didn't exist, our society would not work. JMich gave you an actual, real-life example that you can easily look up yourself, and you chose to ignore that too. You didn't actually give me any sound reasoning as to why using a PC is good, you came up with a bunch of personally biased arguments that hold no ground whatsoever. I'll be as kind as to sum it up for you:
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Crosmando: What "learning", all cases sold these days don't even use screws anymore, so you don't even need to know how to use a screwdriver FFS, you just follow instructions, click the parts into the case like lego, and plug everything into the motherboard, takes less than an hour even if you've never done it before.
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Crosmando: once someone discovers how easy it is to assemble a desktop (as you would know if you worked in that industry) then however daunting and scary it seemed at first fades into nothing.
That's not true. As JMich stated and I have experienced many times in my life, working efficiently with computers requires a lot of learning, experience, and dedication. There's so much to do with your life, and some people want to play games, but don't want to learn about computers. A console is an ideal solution for them as they have all the convenience they can possibly want, and an arrangement of games which are catered for them, which usually don't take up much time and are easy to pick up and play. You have not actually counter-argued this, you just said it's not true with nothing whatsoever to even attemtp to back it up.

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Crosmando: That is bad logic, it's not a "shortcut", you're being swindled into buying an inferior product, on inferior (closed) software, which sells overpriced games, just because at first glance a PC looks more complicated. It ain't "convenience" you're being ripped-off, you are paying three times or more the price for the hardware.
Saying that a shortcut is not a shortcut is a definition of bad logic. You spend less time with consoles and console games in general. They're designed with this in mind. I have actually done my research on the subject many times, and I have been playing console games for quite some time. It was so infinitely easier than PC games. You are pulling statistics out your ass, saying crap like 'Oh but it's so cheaper!', but that's just flatout not true. Xbox one is going to cost 500 bucks, PS4 is going to cost 400. To get a PC with comparable ability in gaming, you'd have to pay at least that much, if not more - my PC cost 1000 bucks at the time of building it. While console games are more expensive, console will last you quite a bit of time, you don't have to upgrade, you don't have to fiddle with it. Also keep in mind that people who get a console generally don't spend nearly as much time playing games as people who get a PC for gaming, so while prices of individual games are higher, their gaming budget is far lower. But you'd actually need to know more people than yourself to be aware of that.

Now, go ahead. Don't pick and match as you have done so far, answer all my points with actual arguments as opposed to 'You're lying' and 'You're wrong'.
Post edited June 11, 2013 by Fenixp
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Fenixp: - Digital preorders make no sense wthatsoever and should be burned with fire
Well, there's usually a discount or something(and sometimes can download right at midnight before the official release, not sure if W2 allowed that or not) so I just preorder three days or so before release if I want it.
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Ric1987: Well, there's usually a discount or something(and sometimes can download right at midnight before the official release, not sure if W2 allowed that or not) so I just preorder three days or so before release if I want it.
It's not really about that, the reason you get any preorder bonuses is that publishers want to encourage reckless behavior to get more money out of their customers, and this leads to silly stuff like preorder bonuses in form of unique content, ability to download the game sooner (whereas without preorder, it would just .. You know ... Get released sooner as it's obviously already finished and ready). They want to hype up their customers and they want to force them to buy a product that they know nothing about, ensuring sales even if their game turns out to be crap - basicall, by preordering, you support very exploitative behavior on publisher's part.
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Fenixp: It's not really about that, the reason you get any preorder bonuses is that publishers want to encourage reckless behavior to get more money out of their customers, and this leads to silly stuff like preorder bonuses in form of unique content, ability to download the game sooner (whereas without preorder, it would just .. You know ... Get released sooner as it's obviously already finished and ready). They want to hype up their customers and they want to force them to buy a product that they know nothing about, ensuring sales even if their game turns out to be crap - basicall, by preordering, you support very exploitative behavior on publisher's part.
Some might say that one of the other reason why publishers tries to encourage more and more pre-orders is because of all the peoples who says "a videogame isn't worth 60$, I will wait for it to be 30$" and who as a result deprives them from the all so important firsts weeks sales where they make most of their money ;)

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if it was the main reason for the pre-order bonus craze we have nowadays.
Post edited June 11, 2013 by Gersen
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Fenixp: If they didn't exist, our society would not work.
No, our society would be a lot better and a lot less dominated by no-good corporations if everybody knew how to assemble a PC. We sure as heck wouldn't have mountain loads of companies like Apple who do nothing but bundled their forced closed software with second-rate hardware and sell it many, many times the price of the parts in it. So yes, society is dominated by idiots, and the idiots laziness to use google or try and do something for themselves fuels the pockets of companies that prey on them.

You didn't actually give me any sound reasoning as to why using a PC is good, you came up with a bunch of personally biased arguments that hold no ground whatsoever.
It's technically superior, and doesn't feature a closed platform. Nuff said

That's not true. As JMich stated and I have experienced many times in my life, working efficiently with computers requires a lot of learning, experience, and dedication.
We aren't talking about "working with computers" in that way, we are talking about having the patience and the ability to make a few fucking google searches, or hell just follow the instructions on the parts you buy, and it will take you less than an hour to assemble a PC.

There's so much to do with your life, and some people want to play games, but don't want to learn about computers.
They are the same thing, when you are running a game, the hardware powering that software is the graphics card, the processor, the memory. Computing is the epitome of modern society and technology, willfully being ignorant and letting yourself be ripped off by businesses that prey on ignorance is the height of stupidity.

A console is an ideal solution for them as they have all the convenience they can possibly want,
There is a difference between "convenience" of willful ignorance and/or laziness. As with my previous point, everything in life is daunting at first until you understand it, but once you do understand it's like riding a bicycle.

and an arrangement of games which are catered for them, which usually don't take up much time and are easy to pick up and play.
The irony of this is quite funny, considering how still stuck in the physical retail model consoles are, while PC is the real home of the digital games market. With distributors like Steam and this site, it is just as easy if not more to buy and play games on PC. Again you're defending ignorance under some weird notion of "lolol nerds have no life, i dun care about how computers work". In the modern world knowing the basics of computer hardware should be essential.

You have not actually counter-argued this, you just said it's not true with nothing whatsoever to even attemtp to back it up.
I haven't countered what exactly? So you're saying that people who buy console games are ignorant, unwilling to learn even the basics of computer hardware, and therefore buying overpriced console hardware "makes sense"? It "makes sense" in the same way

Saying that a shortcut is not a shortcut is a definition of bad logic. You spend less time with consoles and console games in general. They're designed with this in mind. I have actually done my research on the subject many times, and I have been playing console games for quite some time.
I'm saying it's not a shortcut because it isn't. It's different, inferior hardware. A shortcut is quicker access to the same thing, not an inferior thing. You're argument boils down to "computas r teh hard, so i play console". Consoles and PC are completely different things, so you can't call consoles a shortcut.

If I made a desktop shortcut to a folder containing a 1080p mkv 10-bit video file, and then next day I opened that shortcut and instead of that video, there was a 420p blurry avi video file there, would you consider that a good thing? A shortcut implies a quick route to the same thing, not an inferior thing.

It was so infinitely easier than PC games. You are pulling statistics out your ass, saying crap like 'Oh but it's so cheaper!', but that's just flatout not true. Xbox one is going to cost 500 bucks, PS4 is going to cost 400. To get a PC with comparable ability in gaming, you'd have to pay at least that much, if not more - my PC cost 1000 bucks at the time of building it.
Extrapolate the "real" price of console gaming by adding the 60$ per game (because consoles rarely if ever do sales), plus if you want to play multiplayer you'll need to pay a yearly subscription on PS4/Xbox live services. Also taking the consoles at their raw price is misleading, when you buy a PC it can be incrementally upgraded over the years, stretching out it's lifespan.

While console games are more expensive, console will last you quite a bit of time, you don't have to upgrade, you don't have to fiddle with it.
Utter rubbish, Xbox 360 had a ridiculously high failure rate, a PC made with quality parts will always last longer than a console made by console manufacturers who want to make the maximum profit while using the least expensive hardware inside. And why do you list upgrading as a bad thing? That's a good point because it allows you to keep your PC capable to play the latest games without having to replace it, another advantage over consoles.

Also keep in mind that people who get a console generally don't spend nearly as much time playing games as people who get a PC for gaming, so while prices of individual games are higher, their gaming budget is far lower. But you'd actually need to know more people than yourself to be aware of that.
Over the long-term a PC is a better investment, because you don't have to replace it wholesale as you do with consoles, you can just upgrade the processor or GPU. Not to mention the myriad other uses of a PC outside gaming, word processing, web browsing, most people own a PC ANYWAY, so if you own a PC anyway why not spend a bit more and make it your gaming platform too?

Now, go ahead. Don't pick and match as you have done so far, answer all my points with actual arguments as opposed to 'You're lying' and 'You're wrong'.
Your "points" are again, as I said, Appeals to Authority, or well not really "authority" so much as "experiences of other people". You have made no arguments which aren't completely non-hard psychological or sentimental crap. If your argument is just that people buy consoles because of ignorance of computing knowledge, or because computers are teh hard.... I concede to your point, console gamers are flaming retards.

But at the end of the day, only the console gamers themselves are getting ripped-off, not me. I just dislike shady corporations that base their business models on customer apathy and ignorance, and those who refuse to learn and instead pay people to do things for them that they could do for themselves with a quick google and some patience.

My only argument is that consoles are technically inferior and overly expensive, and that everybody should know how computers work on the inside anyways
Post edited June 11, 2013 by Crosmando
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Crosmando: No, our society would be a lot better and a lot less dominated by no-good corporations if everybody knew how to assemble a PC. We sure as heck wouldn't have mountain loads of companies like Apple who do nothing but bundled their forced closed software with second-rate hardware and sell it many, many times the price of the parts in it. So yes, society is dominated by idiots, and the idiots laziness to use google or try and do something for themselves fuels the pockets of companies that prey on them.
Do you ever order food from someone else? Or do you cook all your meals? You do know how to cook, right? Then why order?

I can reply to the rest of your post if you'd like me to.
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Crosmando: No, our society would be a lot better and a lot less dominated by no-good corporations if everybody knew how to assemble a PC.
Rrrrrright. Yeah. Ok. That's ... Wow, I genuinely don't know how to respond to that. Just... Wow. I'm sorry, you're completely right and everything you say is correct. I am a drooling idiot who doesn't know how the world works.
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Crosmando: No, our society would be a lot better and a lot less dominated by no-good corporations if everybody knew how to assemble a PC. We sure as heck wouldn't have mountain loads of companies like Apple who do nothing but bundled their forced closed software with second-rate hardware and sell it many, many times the price of the parts in it. So yes, society is dominated by idiots, and the idiots laziness to use google or try and do something for themselves fuels the pockets of companies that prey on them.
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JMich: Do you ever order food from someone else? Or do you cook all your meals? You do know how to cook, right? Then why order?

I can reply to the rest of your post if you'd like me to.
Is that an actual question? Because I hope it is and not a comparison, because it is awful.
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JMich: Do you ever order food from someone else? Or do you cook all your meals? You do know how to cook, right? Then why order?

I can reply to the rest of your post if you'd like me to.
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Crosmando: Is that an actual question? Because I hope it is and not a comparison, because it is awful.
Why? Wouldn't we all be better if we knew what went into our foods? Thus no longer needing fast foods and canteens? Shouldn't we all be able to prepare our meals ourselves? Aren't we lazy when we order from somewhere instead of cooking our own food?

Ok, screw the food.

How about your car? Other than changing a tyre (you do know how to change a tyre), what else can you tell me about your car? What maintenance are you able to do yourself instead of getting someone to do it for you? Why don't you try to learn how to maintain it, so we no longer need the mechanics who like to overcharge us? Or are you just lazy?

Bodypainting a car ain't hard. Repairing bumps in the metalwork is not that hard either. Upholstery can be easily fixed as well. Depending on the car's year of manufacturing, messing with the engine may be easier than building a computer, or a bit harder since you also need a way to read the car's computer and tune it. So why don't we all maintain our cars ourselves? Are we lazy?
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JMich: snip
Again, more faulty comparisons. Since when did this become a "buy parts and assemble PC" versus "buy pre-assembled PC" discussion? I thought it was about PC and consoles, completely different thing altogether.

Paying for a pre-built PC implies paying for the labor of someone assembling it for you. I have no problem with that, my first PC was such.

But how does that have anything to do with consoles v PC?
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JMich: Why? Wouldn't we all be better if we knew what went into our foods? Thus no longer needing fast foods and canteens? Shouldn't we all be able to prepare our meals ourselves? Aren't we lazy when we order from somewhere instead of cooking our own food?

Ok, screw the food.

How about your car? Other than changing a tyre (you do know how to change a tyre), what else can you tell me about your car? What maintenance are you able to do yourself instead of getting someone to do it for you? Why don't you try to learn how to maintain it, so we no longer need the mechanics who like to overcharge us? Or are you just lazy?

Bodypainting a car ain't hard. Repairing bumps in the metalwork is not that hard either. Upholstery can be easily fixed as well. Depending on the car's year of manufacturing, messing with the engine may be easier than building a computer, or a bit harder since you also need a way to read the car's computer and tune it. So why don't we all maintain our cars ourselves? Are we lazy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
Post edited June 11, 2013 by Crosmando
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Crosmando: But how does that have anything to do with consoles v PC?
Easy.
A console gives you the peace of mind that it will play your games as they are meant to be played. A PC should also play the games as they are meant to be played.
By getting a pre-built computer, you have a "guarantee" that the components in it will work together without problems, so the only possible errors are between the hardware and the software. With a console you remove that factor as well.

So, you can spend $499 for the console and $60 for a game, and play 59 minutes out of every hour you have, or you can spend $750 for the computer and $40 for the game, and hopefully spend 59 minutes out of every hour you have. In case though you hit a bump (be that drivers out of date, game engine not liking your card, antivirus blocking the executable) you spend an hour or two trying to identify what the problem is.
So depending on what you are looking for, a console does make sense.

More or less if you wish to eat something tasty, something tasty and healthy, something cheap, or something fast. All are valid food choices, and all have someone catering to them. You are saying that Consoles have no place existing, more or less the same as saying "Fish & Chips" have no place existing, or Pizza, or burgers, and we should all be eating healthily at home.
Sorry, I don't buy that kind of comparative thinking, it's too broad and too generalizing. Also more faulty "comparisons". My point was simply that PCs have a wider range of uses, and they are a fundamentally different machine.

And yes, in a "perfect world" consoles would not exist, because the average person who see that they are just putting PC parts inside a PS4/XB case and then selling it at a price well beyond the price that hardware is sold for in retail market. They would then conclude that the consoles are not value for money.