jefequeso: In Doom 1/2, I remember killing many many different enemies per room

jefequeso: The ironic part is that games that get labeled "faithful Doom throwbacks" like Painkiller and Serious Sam are about as detached from Doom as Doom 3 is. Yes, you shot a lot of enemies in Doom, but you really didn't ever have to do the sort of mob control those games require, and you were never forced to keep progressing forward along a linear pathway. Plus, whatever happened to keycard hunting puzzles? Granted, they were often more frustrating than fun, but still...

I keep waiting for a true "Doom throwback." Keycards and all.

sheepdragon: I agree with this so much. Anyone who says Painkiller, Serious Sam, Hard Reset, etc. is a throwback to Doom has no fucking idea of what they're talking about, and has probably never even played Doom. The whole sub-genre that was pretty much spawned with Serious Sam, only consists of circle strafing around enemies in huge areas, with absolutely no level design, per se. Mostly just large areas with short corridors connecting them.
I enjoyed Doom for its maze-like style, monster infighting and crowd control, the actual level designs, and the modability of course.

jefequeso: Well, the games are retro throwbacks in the sense that they have some design elements that have gone out of favor with more "modern" games. No weapon limit, health packs, unashamed "levels," strafing around instead of taking cover, and secrets. But they also ignore some key elements of Doom. So yeah, that whole subgenre should really be called "Serious Sam throwbacks."

Also, I should probably mention that I absolutely adore both Serious Sam and Painkiller.

sheepdragon: Pretty much. Don't mind Serious Sam, since it's fun to play coop. but it seems like no other game of that type has that.

bevinator: There are a few areas in Doom 1 that have oodles of bad guys, especially in episode 4, but mostly what people remember are the millions of swarmy guys being resurrected by arch-viles etc from the second game, in huge open "outdoors" zones. From a design perspective, Doom 1 and 2 are actually somewhat different, which is something a lot of folks seem to forget and/or gloss over. Especially in terms of level design.

Bodkin: Two years ago i was playing through Dooms. I loved all four episodes of first Doom but didn't finish second Doom. It wasn't as good (or fun) as the first one. Then i go for the third one and said myself exactly the same thing: "This is good reboot of Doom."

Altought that flashlight kinda pissed me off, 'cause i can go and buy a light for a gun and i am civilian. So marines in the future will not have this tech? It was kinda "lazy" solution. They could use some other mechanics - batery, interference, smoke...

bevinator: Doom didn't start to have ridiculous numbers of enemies until the second game. In fact, at the time, one of the major criticisms of Doom 2 was that there were too many enemies in a room at a time. (Like, on level 3, there's a room with like 10 chaingunners and 20 pistol/shotgun zombies.) While there were on average a lot more enemies per room in Doom 1 than in Doom 3, the rooms were also a lot larger and more spacious. Doom 3 is substantially more claustrophobic, which actually makes a lot more sense as it's an extraplanetary base run by a company that's obsessed with money. There's no way they'd really pay for all those high ceilings in Doom 1. Of course, that's to emphasize the horror aspect of 3, but still.

There are a few areas in Doom 1 that have oodles of bad guys, especially in episode 4, but mostly what people remember are the millions of swarmy guys being resurrected by arch-viles etc from the second game, in huge open "outdoors" zones. From a design perspective, Doom 1 and 2 are actually somewhat different, which is something a lot of folks seem to forget and/or gloss over. Especially in terms of level design.

For me personally though, I thought Doom 3 was a good reboot of Doom 1, and I enjoyed it, even the flashlight. Hopefully Doom 4 will be a good reboot of Doom 2.

grviper: Doom 2 isn't a game, it's a mission pack :) Just as chaotic as the extra 4th episode for Doom, monsters of all breeds mixed together in crowds, many levels feel interchangeable. Also using the engine to recreate Earth-like environments wasn't a particularly good idea, Amulets & Armor pulled it off way better.