What about companies pirating from pirates? There are rumours Prince of Persia Warrior Within drm-free version uses reloaded crack files. So we have intellectual property theft accomponied by commercial distribution.

Downloading media is the new reality (piracy is such a loaded term, intended to demonize). It has been shown that those who download music buy more music than others. It has been shown that convenience and zealotry, not criminality or malice, are the prime reasons people download copyrighted material.

Even Gabe Newell stated that a pirate is a customer that has not been properly served. I will give a hypothetical example that draws on my experiences. Let's say you are a moderate fan of a band, and hear they are coming to your town. Let's say that band is Deep Purple. Now, you know that said band has a long and varied discography, comprising 14 albums give or take, and all you own is the greatest hits album.

So you download all the albums, listen to them extensively, and decide to go to the show, spending $75 on a ticket. You also convince a friend to go with you, for another $75. You then bring along two kids for another $150. You spend $65 for a shirt and bluray at the merchandise stand. This is getting out of hand, like OUTER SPACE man!










TAPD-G995-9PN5-MUNK

Your friend spends $40 on a shirt and a beer, and the kids spend $25 on merch. That's $430 spent on the band, all of which goes to them. The 14 albums on itunes would cost around $150, with the band maybe getting 15% of that at most. If you are a band, do you want to sue people who spend more to go to your shows than those who buy the albums and stay home?

Was that really sitting there for 12 minutes? In any case, thanks. I'll treasure it always.

Amazing, my treasure hunt took only 3 minutes, this 12!
Which one is that?

Ok, I just woke up. And now I feel like I did a hit and run, leaving other people to hold my point for me. I intended mainly to know if I was "the only idiot who pays for stuff you already got", in my friend's words, but I knew the chances for an argument were big and I should have started the topic in the morning so I could give people a fair answer. I can't do that anymore, I have work, but I'll respond to the main points I've read.

The matter of "if you beat it and then wait for a sale, not cool". Personally, my own scale goes like this: A game is usually worth 20-30€ to me. That's for a game that keeps me interested enough to bother beating, for example Hitman absolution or Max Payne 3. However, some games I feel they are awesome and make me thoroughly enjoy the experience of playing them, those I feel are worth 50-60€, a group that Warhammer 40k: DoW2 would exemplify. For me, 5 hours is enough time to know if I'll finish the game or not, but usually not enough to tell if the game is awesome enough to pay for full price.

Then there are game I try and just give up on (Lucius comes to mind), those I either don't buy or maybe I'll give them another try when they are extremely cheap. Space Marine for instance I abandoned when I tried the pirate version, but I bought and beat it when I found it for 5€ on a steam sale. Games like the newest Brothers in arms that didn't run properly on my old PC as the specs were low and only recently I got on steam and am currently happily playing. Last scenario would be Anno 2070, which was recommended by a friend and I wanted to test out, however after 15 minutes I didn't get the pirate version running. Well, then I may be missing a wonderfull game, but I'm not buying it blind. I'll have a look at it again once it hits 10€.

This ties in nicely to the point Orcishgamer and StingingVelvet were making: the full price support of my favorite games. The question that arises for me is, how do I know it's a favorite of mine if I haven't played it yet? If I don't pirate the game at the beginning, and so get the chance to check it out, I would never know if the game was good enough to pay full price for until it was not sold at full price anymore. This happened with Mark of the ninja, I think it was awesome but didn't discover it until I tried it on sale. Had I tried the pirate version earlier, I would have paid full price for it.

That implies I'm not giving them any chance to buy it at full price. I'm never on a hurry to play any game, as most other people here I have quite the backlog. But in some cases, I do want to give them the chance to blow my mind and make me pay full price. Hell, I'd love if all games made me enjoy them so much that I want to pay them 50€! I know it's not going to happen, but I don't to outright declare that none is worth it either. I've even preordered some game when the circumstances allowed it, but doesn't happen often. Besides, instead reading reviews and comments around the internet, I much rather spend that time actually playing the game and making my own opinion.

You guys need to understand, despite my being here on the forum, I'm not an internet person. I've been learning quite a bit from links and comments of the people here, but usually I don't follow gaming news online. I don't really follow up with game development, not even of my favoriite franchises. The things I do know, it's either because a friend who loves it told me or I just read it here, and I've been on the forum only for a couple of months or so. By this, I mean I'm not the kind of person that waits for a new game to get it on day 1. I'm the kind of person who one day opens a store or piratebay and says "look at that, Deus Ex 3/Starcraft II came out!". I used those examples because they are true, they are franchises I like and they could have been out for months before I knew they were there.

My approach to the subject is, I'll still buy it but you need to compensate for it. A game on GOG (say, Omerta) will have less trouble convincing me to buy it than a DRM heavy game somewhere else. Which means I'll still buy it if it is awesome enough.



Anyway, I think I replied to the main points here. I'm not going into the piracy is stealing yes/no argument, I have my hands full with my own stuff right now. I would like to clarify that, in the particular case of DMC, I'm more tempted to pirate now despite my low hopes because now I'm at my house (where I have a controler) while next month I probably won't be (therefore not having a controler, and I expect that means not being able to play). Essentially, if I don't play it now, or within the next 4 months or so, I may not play it in years. But whatever, I don't expect to convince anyone nor do I intend to be convinced myself, we are all deeply entrenched on our opinions. I just wanted to see if I was alone on my ways and it appears I really am quite the oddball after all.

I like that you write about it before you do it. This gives you a big chance of hearing a lot of opinions.

I think that playing a game even a tiny bit without paying for it is always piracy and makes you definitely a (monster) pirate. No way out there. I think you shouldn't do it, it's illegal after all. But you also shouldn't ignore the game completely. You should read reviews and tests, ask for demos or watch play-videos on youtube to inform yourself about the game. If you are then interested, just buy it. If you aren't interested enough, don't buy it or buy it later. If you have a big enough backlog, you can also wait, it might get cheaper. But never, ever pirate. It's bad for your karma. Besides with 300 games here you are a person that can afford not to pirate.

Easy. :)

Ok, so what are the multiple revenue streams games can benefit from? More DLC? Online passes? Merchandise? Subscriptions? Micro-transactions?

I would love it if there was a "try before you buy" option. Sure, Steam sometimes has "free weekends", and there are demo's, but they often seem to be "We're still working on this and the game really won't be anything like this."

But let's face it, a lot of games suck and they probably don't want you to know that beforehand.

Now that there is so much digital stuff, there needs to be some sort of "remedy" for this (though it's too early for me to think of what that could be). Hell, you can buy a car and return it, but if you buy a shitty digital game, oh well too bad!

I dont care if you pirate aslong as you dont sell or make money from the pirated copy (this is when i have a problem with it).

If you enjoy a game/movie/song that you have pirated then buy the game at some point to support the devs so they can continue to make games.

Even if you removed piracy at this very moment it would not make any real changes. Most pirates pirate everything. All songs, all movies, all games. If you removed piracy at this very moment do you honestly think they would run out and buy 300+ movies 300+ games 1000's of songs / year?

No it simply would not happen.

Also pirates buy more then a non pirate according to some research.

*eats a cookie*

Yo, Ho haul together, hoist the colours high
Heave ho, thieves and beggars, never shall we die
Yo, Ho haul together, hoist the colours high
Heave ho, thieves and beggars, never shall we die

The King and his men stole the queen from her bed
and bound her in her bones
The seas be ours and by the powers
Where we will...we'll roam

Yo, Ho haul together, hoist the colours high
Heave ho, thieves and beggars, never say we die

Some men have died and some are alive
And others sail on the sea
With the keys to the cage
And the devil to pay
We lay to Fiddler's Green!

Yo, Ho haul together, hoist the colours high
Heave ho, thieves and beggars, never shall we die

The bell has been raised from its watery grave
Do you hear its sepulchral tone?
A Call to all, pay heed to the squall
And turn your sail towards home!

Yo, Ho haul together, hoist the colours high
Heave ho, thieves and beggars, never shall we die

Yes, I get to hear a lot of opinions, which is interesting even though it's unlikely they will change my mind.

As I said before, I already am a pirate, so my karma is ruined anyway. I'm serious when I say that I'll either pirate it or skip it entirely, those are the only options I consider. As for the reading reviews and watching play-videos? I much rather spend that time actually playing it myself than checking other people's opinions. Even if that makes me a bad person in your eyes. I've been a bad person on the eyes of many people, and the law and me seem to have a certain level of mutual dislike. I can live with that.

Money wise, I can afford not to pirate, true. I can afford seeing Empire Earth II on the promo this weekend and buyingit just to check it out, as I liked the first one back in the day, without knowing if I'll ever make time to actually play it. I feel better knowing it's there and I can play if I want to. I could also afford a few full prize games, right now. However, my income is of course limited, and I have to prioritize: Buying a full prize game this weekend would mean I don't go drink beers tonight. So the game needs to be awesome for me to buy at full prize, for it not only needs to keep me entertained that time but also compensate for not having had those beers.

I think people have a list of priorities in life and spend their money starting from the first, supporting what they can. For me, I'd much rather save money for friends and trips than for videogames, but I much rather spend on videogames than on movies. Someone else will have a different list, and we each support what we care about.

Sure, I also prioritize, but I also stopped pirating a long time ago and feel really good about it. I support what I care about and the rest I simply do without, which might sound stupid but at least makes me proud.

So you can do what you want but you're simply a pirate and if you get caught I wouldn't be bothered by it. That's your game you play and your decision and obviously you have thought it through very well and then you'll have to live with the consequences. All I can say.

Yep, to you I'm simply a pirate, to other people I know I'm just an idiot. But my conscience is quite clean, and I will indeed deal with consequences like I've had to with any other decision I've ever taken.

I'm happy about you feeling good for not pirating, btw, that's how everybody should feel.

I miss the old rental times, where I could get a game for 3 days and try it out thoroughly. I wonder why services like steam don't offer the possibility; since my video rental store doesn't allow me to rent PC games anymore.