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Navagon: Is it just me or has Christianity in the US become more and more extremist since 9/11? It just seems like that stopped people from treating Christianity like a tradition and more like a fundamental part of their personality that is under threat. Of course that reads like a massive blanket statement. But I simply mean that in general there is a lot more religious extremism in the US since 9/11.
I think it actually started back in the 50s. The second red scare. The time when "under god" was added to the pledge.
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orcishgamer: Okay, now that you elaborate on your prison comment I can agree with it. The fact is in the US we have an insane number of prisons already and per capita the highest prison population in the world.

It's not moving towards eugenics to not prosecute someone who negligently miscarries (you can't even prove beyond a reasonable doubt what the cause of any miscarriage is, fetuses abort all the time). Legislating how people treat their fetuses is much more eugenics in fact (though based on a flawed idea). Again the fact is not every kid is equal and I'll be honest, unwanted children are way less equal. Beyond that, nearly every high order mammal kills unwanted offspring in one way or another (they are a huge resource investment that can jeopardize the survival of other offspring or the parent), abortion is just our way of sanitizing it a bit.

How's that for inflammatory?:)
Not bad on the inflammatory front, though I think you could use a few tips from our rage driven friend.

I actually wasn't suggesting that you should prosecute them. I seem to have developed a habit of jumping into quite heated debates with mostly unbiased and quite abstract arguments. I was pointing out that the practice of back street abortions is a very nasty business, and very dangerous. Even the superior 'educated' members of society were forced down that route when abortion was illegal (which is why I support it being legal), there were many deaths, as well as some good breeding stock being rendered infirtile. It's that practice I'm opposed to, and in making abortion such a villified issue this practice may re-emerge.
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Navagon: Is it just me or has Christianity in the US become more and more extremist since 9/11? It just seems like that stopped people from treating Christianity like a tradition and more like a fundamental part of their personality that is under threat. Of course that reads like a massive blanket statement. But I simply mean that in general there is a lot more religious extremism in the US since 9/11.
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Taleroth: I think it actually started back in the 50s. The second red scare. The time when "under god" was added to the pledge.
This, it's been going on for decades. Growing up in a hick town everyone literally believed they were outnumbered and under attack by "teh gheys" or some crap. They literally believed the devil was winning and judgment day was nigh, they still do in fact. 9/11 was when most Christians got to express their intolerance of other religions and atheists more freely, and politicians found themselves obligated to the votes these people cast a bit more.
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Taleroth: I think it actually started back in the 50s. The second red scare. The time when "under god" was added to the pledge.
And adding "In God we trust" to your currency. We've got Darwin on ours. Pwnt.
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orcishgamer: ...
You have made my impression of southern states look sane by comparison to the reality you describe. I didn't see that one coming...
Post edited June 27, 2011 by Navagon
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wpegg: I seem to have developed a habit of jumping into quite heated debates with mostly unbiased and quite abstract arguments.
You get Vestin's Star of Approval :] ! That's one of the more awesome ways to approach a debate.
Actually, you should (in my opinion) prosecute all but the safe ones. Back street abortions were the cause of many deaths of mothers as well as their unborn children back when it was illegal in Britain. It's not a practice you want to allow to creep back in.
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keeveek: Yeah! Lock in jails people who don't fasten seatbelts in cars, workers without safety helmets on, mothers smoking near their children, etc etc.

Lock them all!
You might want to do some research as that's a pretty absurd characterization. Back alley abortions are extremely dangerous and can easily lead to death or serious injury to the mother. Typically these will use coat hangers or toxic chemicals to induce a still birth. Sometimes the mother will be beaten. I know that there are some natural herbs found around here that were historically used to induce abortion.

But, the point is that these are for the most part things which one could reasonably consider to be reckless endangerment. They're far more dangerous that the medical options that would otherwise be used.

It's ultimately really insulting to try and pass this off as some sort of absurd grab at liberty when it's really just a matter of common sense that people shouldn't be having such procedures done by people who have no relevant training.
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Navagon: Is it just me or has Christianity in the US become more and more extremist since 9/11? It just seems like that stopped people from treating Christianity like a tradition and more like a fundamental part of their personality that is under threat. Of course that reads like a massive blanket statement. But I simply mean that in general there is a lot more religious extremism in the US since 9/11.
It's been like that for a lot longer than that. Definitely by the time of the Red Scare, but I think it was even earlier, I can't recall when precisely it was that we decided that it was OK to put "in god we trust" on our money. I think that was probably about the start of it.

But, the country has always had very strong religious convictions, it's just that for much of that time, it wasn't so focused on evil.
Post edited June 27, 2011 by hedwards
Don't everyone forget that we put "under god" in the pledge of allegiance back in the day as well (50s I think). Most people think it's always been there and are terribly offended at the idea of thumbing our noses at the founding fathers by changing it, lol.
Pathetic. That is what is wrong with our country. Pro-life can suck my ass.
The problem is that religion is a disease which is extremely catchy and most of our children are infected with it at birth.
You might want to do some research as that's a pretty absurd characterization. Back alley abortions are extremely dangerous and can easily lead to death or serious injury to the mother.
So what? It's the same situation like youd try to punish people who tried to comit suicide. It' their problem, leave them ALONE.
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jeffreydean1: The problem is that religion is a disease which is extremely catchy and most of our children are infected with it at birth.
Hurrdurr.
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hedwards: It's been like that for a lot longer than that.
I appreciate that the US has been established as a Christian-centric country for some considerable time now (at least 'considerable' given the general lack of US history for it to be a portion of). But I was referring to what I perceived as an marked increase in fanaticism in the US following 9/11.
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hedwards: It's been like that for a lot longer than that.
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Navagon: I appreciate that the US has been established as a Christian-centric country for some considerable time now (at least 'considerable' given the general lack of US history for it to be a portion of). But I was referring to what I perceived as an marked increase in fanaticism in the US following 9/11.
Possibly, I think it's mostly just more obvious since 9/11. Because of the perceived threat by Islam, they're more vocal about it, but even before that it was there. It used to be more obvious with the rampant lynchings of Jewish people in the South and gay men pretty much everywhere.
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hedwards: It's been like that for a lot longer than that.
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Navagon: I appreciate that the US has been established as a Christian-centric country for some considerable time now (at least 'considerable' given the general lack of US history for it to be a portion of). But I was referring to what I perceived as an marked increase in fanaticism in the US following 9/11.
It's just that it's much better documented these days, and crackpots like the doomsday grandpa from two months back get near instant worldwide attention because it's such crap that generates click revenue on webpages.

The average % of self-proclaimed christians is actually down the last 50 years.
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stonebro: The average % of self-proclaimed christians is actually down the last 50 years.
That's true. That's probably also why Christianity in the US (if not elsewhere) seems more extremist now. The saner Christians have had to face up to the fact that the Bible's teachings and reality are incompatible. So ever increasingly the nutters are now running the show.