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General discussion (archive)old rpgs and bad combat(114 posts)solved(114 posts)solved
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This is my favourite topic
Posted November 14, 2012
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deamento: on that note, is borrowing an account illigal?
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PenutBrittle: Not illegal, but it is copyright infringement and against the GOG terms of use so you shouldn't do it. You might as well just pirate it if you're going to "borrow" an account, it's essentially the same thing.

As for the topic as a whole, create better characters. I don't have an issue with miss miss miss miss miss miss like you seem to do (I certainly hit the enemy more than once an hour). Learn how the system works, then create a well designed character that plays to the strengths of the engine and your own personal preference. Look up builds if you must. If your character keeps missing, you've done something wrong. It would be lovely if you could customize your character however you want, but in reality, particularly in D&D RPGs, you can make some pretty crippling errors if you're not informed.

But keep in mind, a lot of these RPGs are much slower paced anyway, so maybe it's just not for you.
well even though that is a very crude term you are right in this case.

and i don't know the first thing about dnd so i doubt i'll create anything other than cookie cutter characters
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deamento: snip
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Licurg: I'm doing a giveaway for 2 copies right now...
1 second...
Post edited November 14, 2012 by deamento
Posted November 14, 2012
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deamento: i thought that dnd games were played by a group of people that are atleast familiar with each other, so i don't think a stranger with 0 understanding of dnd is going to play a lot of games.
if i'm completly wrong, sign me up! ^^
Well, it depends; I think some of the online games are by invite only, while others are stranger- and noob-friendly. I haven't really investigated it because, as I said, I have a game going with people I do know. (Which is definitely the better option - I could imagine having to try a lot of pretty sketchy groups online before finding one that I liked.)

My suggestion would be to ask around and see if anyone you know on the internet has already joined a game of this type, and if so, whether they can bring you in. This a) helps you to find a group that doesn't suck, because someone is vouching for it, and b) eases the transition of "getting to know" the people involved, since you're already familiar with one of the people there.
Post edited November 14, 2012 by Azilut
Posted November 14, 2012
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deamento: but doesn't that destroy the whole point of customizing your character?
also i'd like to mention that in AD&D games i've played as the mage, rogue and warrior archetypes and will the mage almost never misses his spells they are very limited in combat. and the other two, i don't think i need to explain anymore
In a way yes, but if you are new to that type of games, or at least inexperienced, it is still a good idea to check what works and what does not. AD&D games are quite nice in this regard, as you can check the overall guidelines for character creation for one game, and it will apply to most others (not including Planescape). If you don't understand concepts such as dump stats (a stat that your character has no real use for, so you set it to an as low of a value as possible, and pump your other stats instead), then it will be an uphill struggle, as most games takes for granted that you are proficient in character optimization. With AD&D games there are also very few "right" ways to build your characters, unlike say Fallout, so it does in reality become more of a beginners trap than anything else. (It should be noted that a person who knows how to work the system can get a lot out of it by doing unconventional things, but don't worry about that for now).

For AD&D games:
Warriors: Max str, high con, not too low dex (no minus, preferably a small plus), Wis, Cha & int are dump stats
Rogues: High Dex and if going melee, str as well, decent con.
Wizards: High int, alright dex & con.
Clerics: High Wis, depending on build, high or decent Str, decent Dex & Con

For Fallout first-timers, I would recommend getting high Agility & Int. All other can be considered secondary, in particular Cha. Start with small guns as a tag-skill.

If you are missing more than you hit early on in almost any game, then you have probably done something wrong when creating your character.
Posted November 14, 2012
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deamento: i thought that dnd games were played by a group of people that are atleast familiar with each other, so i don't think a stranger with 0 understanding of dnd is going to play a lot of games.
if i'm completly wrong, sign me up! ^^
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Azilut: Well, it depends; I think some of the online games are by invite only, while others are stranger- and noob-friendly. I haven't really investigated it because, as I said, I have a game going with people I do know. (Which is definitely the better option - I could imagine having to try a lot of pretty sketchy groups online before finding one that I liked.)

My suggestion would be to ask around and see if anyone you know on the internet has already joined a game of this type, and if so, whether they can bring you in. This a) helps you to find a group that doesn't suck, because someone is vouching for it, and b) eases the transition of "getting to know" the people involved, since you're already familiar with one of the people there.
yeeee here's the thing, i'm still in school so the people i know only play FPS games '-,-
but i'll take a look around i guess...
thanks
Posted November 14, 2012
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deamento: the think i don't like about crpgs (and ad&d games in particular) is that you almost always miss your attacks, the combat is only challenging when they gang up on you and even then you can just keep chugging potions until everyone's dead.
Missing a lot at low level is common for games that have levels. You may enjoy sequels where you start at a higher level. You may also focus on ingame things that improve you hit chances. That usually means strength/ dexterity/ accuracy, spells that increase chances, and races that boost these options. Unfortunately, it is part of the game design. Older CRPGs have a slower pace than those today, I think.

It may be that you prefer action RPGs, over pure RPGs.

***what i want to get from crpgs is a great narrative (something which there is with an abundance) and combat where i can kill an enemy before my combat log has enough missed attacks to fill a book with. ***

Would cheating your stats up or getting magic items to increase your hit rate help? Maybe adding NPCs or summons to get more attacks? Maybe use more spells which usually don't use hit rolls? Maybe playing a solo character, so that you can both bufff and level up faster?

***also i don't think i was born when those rpgs came out but i started playing these games because i've completed all rpgs that i wanted to play from this modern age (witcher, dragon age etc.) and i don't like any other genre.***

They might just be too old for you. Have you played Deus Ex, KOTOR, or Gothic? What about Vtm Bloodlines? These have great stories, and by using FPP, there's less time fanning your foes (though KOTOR still does somewhat).
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Licurg: Slightly off-topic : You said in a previous post you like Dungeon Keeper? How about playing Sacrifice? It's just 2.99 right now.
*finger twitches looking for the spam button*

Just kidding. : )

I salute your dedication to a game you love so much. You may yet convince me to buy it.

EDIT

Dea, there are websites online for gamers to meet, and some of them welcome new players. An important thing to know is that there are different editions of D&D, so learning either the latest one, or finding a group that will help you along with whatever edition they use will help you.

I had a link somewhere but I'd have to spend time looking for it. If you want me to though, I will.
Post edited November 14, 2012 by BlueMooner
Posted November 14, 2012
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deamento: the think i don't like about crpgs (and ad&d games in particular) is that you almost always miss your attacks, the combat is only challenging when they gang up on you and even then you can just keep chugging potions until everyone's dead.
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BlueMooner: Missing a lot at low level is common for games that have levels. You may enjoy sequels where you start at a higher level. You may also focus on ingame things that improve you hit chances. That usually means strength/ dexterity/ accuracy, spells that increase chances, and races that boost these options. Unfortunately, it is part of the game design. Older CRPGs have a slower pace than those today, I think.

It may be that you prefer action RPGs, over pure RPGs.

***what i want to get from crpgs is a great narrative (something which there is with an abundance) and combat where i can kill an enemy before my combat log has enough missed attacks to fill a book with. ***

Would cheating your stats up or getting magic items to increase your hit rate help? Maybe adding NPCs or summons to get more attacks? Maybe use more spells which usually don't use hit rolls? Maybe playing a solo character, so that you can both bufff and level up faster?

***also i don't think i was born when those rpgs came out but i started playing these games because i've completed all rpgs that i wanted to play from this modern age (witcher, dragon age etc.) and i don't like any other genre.***

They might just be too old for you. Have you played Deus Ex, KOTOR, or Gothic? What about Vtm Bloodlines? These have great stories, and by using FPP, there's less time fanning your foes (though KOTOR still does somewhat).
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Licurg: Slightly off-topic : You said in a previous post you like Dungeon Keeper? How about playing Sacrifice? It's just 2.99 right now.
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BlueMooner: *finger twitches looking for the spam button*

Just kidding. : )

I salute your dedication to a game you love so much. You may yet convince me to buy it.
you're right, and i don't think cheating is the best idea because if i cheat to get good items i'll need stats, and i don't want to upgrade them because there are serveral "skill checks" in games (as far as i know atleast).

also, i tried to play deus ex but it gave me an eyesore after an hour.
a lot of people say KOTOR is good but i don't think star wars is something i will like
and i want to play gothic but as i said in a previous post i am unable to buy games from GoG because they only accept credit cards as far as i know and i don't have one of those
Posted November 14, 2012
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deamento: So I've been trying to play a few older rpgs (fallout, divine divinity...) that got recommended to me because they have great story, i tried a bunch of them (about 6) and I've only managed to complete one of them.
Every time I try to play one of these rpgs i get VERY bored 1-2 hours in, after that i just quit the game and never go back.
so I have two questions:
1. Is anyone else having this "issue" with the combat.
2. Is there some kind of way to actually enjoy it? I really want to get into these games but as I said the combat is boring me.
The constant misses means that you are doing something wrong. You should read the manual, this game is a bit more complex than many modern RPGs but it is rewarding. Don't read any FAQs or such on the internet they just spoil the game. Fallout allows you to play many different type of characters, it is a very open ended game you must just figure out how to do it.
Posted November 14, 2012
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deamento: on that note, is borrowing an account illigal?
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PenutBrittle: Not illegal, but it is copyright infringement and against the GOG terms of use so you shouldn't do it. You might as well just pirate it if you're going to "borrow" an account, it's essentially the same thing.
Yes, I agree with PenutBrittle, except I consider it a bad thing to do not because it's copyright infringement but because it's fraud. If you pirate it, you're not asking GOG to use their resources to get the game to you or support your copy of the game. So I consider borrowing an account a worse thing to do than pirating it.

On topic, the only thing I can suggest is build better characters. Try to get an understanding of how the game works with the stats and perks/feats and work with it. It helps if you have a character you want to play as and try to stick with that, like an assassin. That can still lead to bad builds if you don't know how the game works.
Posted November 14, 2012
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PenutBrittle: Not illegal, but it is copyright infringement and against the GOG terms of use so you shouldn't do it. You might as well just pirate it if you're going to "borrow" an account, it's essentially the same thing.
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KyleKatarn: Yes, I agree with PenutBrittle, except I consider it a bad thing to do not because it's copyright infringement but because it's fraud. If you pirate it, you're not asking GOG to use their resources to get the game to you or support your copy of the game. So I consider borrowing an account a worse thing to do than pirating it.
what would you do then? i am unable to buy games and i really want to play games
Posted November 14, 2012
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deamento: but doesn't that destroy the whole point of customizing your character?
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ellynandroid: No, not at all. You can customise your character according to play style (whether you want to be a sneaky thief or a total bruiser, intelligent enough to get all the quests or so dumb you can barely speak), but really you only want to do that when you're *not* a total beginner. Thing with Fallout is, pretty much every stat has a tangible impact on gameplay. It's a learning curve, but it's simple enough, and worth it.

Here's a link to really informative character creation help: [url=http://user.tninet.se/~jyg699a/fallout.html#char]http://user.tninet.se/~jyg699a/fallout.html#char[/url]

Still, I'm only trying to help with this specific problem. :P Fallout combat should not be as bad as you've experienced it, with the right character — but you still don't have to like old RPGs.
I really recommend against using a walkthrough and even FAQs too for RPGs. At least when they come with a good manual like Fallout 1 & 2. These games were made to at least give an illusion of choice. Walkthroughs and FAQs throws lot of the choices in the garbage pit and just recommend a few character builds. This goes against the whole point of playing the role you choose yourself.

These games were not designed for to be played with a FAQ, but for many of them a manual is handy or even required.
Posted November 14, 2012
Hmm, it sounds like your problem might not just be the older system, but character build as others have suggested. As Azilut said, basic knowledge of D&D rules is kinda required for these games. Have you read walks for the various games in order to get help with character building? Poor builds can really make your game drag out, and if you're not familiar with D&D concepts, this might be the cause of your difficulties.

Read the edit of my last post.

In playing Deus Ex, what did you think of the FPP? DId you enjoy that? Did that make the game more enjoyable, even if you didn't like it overall?

I'll tell you that I only play games with stories (with rare exception). That's essential to me. I grew up with D&D RPG and I've always loved the interactive story aspect of it. I initially only played fantasy CRPGs, as I didn't imagine I'd like anything else. However, I heard so much praise about the others I mentioned, that even though they weren't fantasy, I played them and loved them. I loved the conspiracy story in DE. I loved the Jedi aspect of KOTOR and the story (2 more than 1). Gothic 1 and 2 have good stories, and they're fantasy. Bloodlines is perhaps my favorite CRPG, as it has an amazing story IMHO, despite being set in modern times. If you love games with stories, I strongly recommend them. Plus, while there is combat, the combat isn't long, drawn out battles, so you should enjoy them more.
Posted November 14, 2012
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KyleKatarn: Yes, I agree with PenutBrittle, except I consider it a bad thing to do not because it's copyright infringement but because it's fraud. If you pirate it, you're not asking GOG to use their resources to get the game to you or support your copy of the game. So I consider borrowing an account a worse thing to do than pirating it.
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deamento: what would you do then? i am unable to buy games and i really want to play games
Pirate them. Have your friend make copies on a usb stick and send it to you and then offer to give him a six-pack of beer. Either one of those cases does not make GOG use its resources to get the game to you. If your friend doesn't want to take the time or spend the money to burn a CD, why should he think GOG should use its servers and bandwidth? Even if it only costs them pennies, it still costs. You're not their customer.

edit: Then, when you find games you really enjoy, you might feel like buying boxed versions of the game to feel like you have something to hold and show off. Or better yet, fund future games that want to see make it on Kickstarter :)
Post edited November 14, 2012 by KyleKatarn
Posted November 14, 2012
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Nergal01: Hmm, coming from the convenient RTS-like interface of the Infinity Engine games, I had some trouble getting into Fallout's interface, myself. Once I kinda got used to it, it really didn't stand in the way of enjoying the games anymore.

The scenario and the roleplaying opportunities more than make up for the clunky interface, IMO, so don't give up just yet.
For me the Fallout interface made perfect sense and couldn't really be better while I found Baldur's Gate to be very clunky and annoying. The interface got a little better in the later games though.
Posted November 14, 2012
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deamento: what would you do then? i am unable to buy games and i really want to play games
Check your PMs. Everyone should have a chance to try Fallout 1, even if they don't end up liking it.
Posted November 14, 2012
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deamento: what would you do then? i am unable to buy games and i really want to play games
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KyleKatarn: Pirate them. Have your friend make copies on a usb stick and send it to you and then offer to give him a six-pack of beer. Either one of those cases does not make GOG use its resources to get the game to you. If your friend doesn't want to take the time or spend the money to burn a CD, why should he think GOG should use its servers and bandwidth? Even if it only costs them pennies, it still costs. You're not their customer.

edit: Then, when you find games you really enjoy, you might feel like buying boxed versions of the game to feel like you have something to hold and show off. Or better yet, fund future games that want to see make it on Kickstarter :)
but i don't want to pirate games!
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)old rpgs and bad combat(114 posts)solved(114 posts)solved
(114 posts)solved