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General discussion (archive)New Tropes Versus Women Video!(803 posts)(803 posts)
(803 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted May 29, 2013
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HijacK: Yes , because complaining about a video game that you do not even want to play makes total sense. Notice how men are always the same stereotypes in gaming? Guess what! You don't see women complain about that.
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JMich: You sure about that? I recall seeing quite a few of "Why must I play as a ~30 year old white male character? Why can't I create my own character?" threads around, for quite a few of the games. Few games require the use of a specific character as the protagonist, and it's mostly those which use previously established characters (example, The Witcher). Why must the Desert Ranger be a male, why can't the new recruit in Alpha Protocol be a woman, why is the person sent in the middle of Dubai in Spec Ops: The Line a male? And more specifically, why are the defaults a ~30 something white male? Why not a latino, black, or asian? Why not a 23 year old, or a 45 year old? Does the story change if you change the character? Or is it that we assume "The 'hero' should be like this" and claim anything else as false subconciously?
Most likely because a character creator wouldn't really add much to a game like say... Cod or Battlefield where your character is nothing more than a robot pretending to be human. Personally it never bothered me, by all accounts, I'd be considered a "latino" in the US and I never really cared about it

though I do agree with you on games like the Witcher.
Post edited May 29, 2013 by stika
Posted May 29, 2013
high rated
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stika: So what you're saying is that her products are not required to represent both genders equally?

Well what do you know, it sounds just like the games she's addressing
Why should it? It's you who think this is an issue, so it's you who should do something about it.

It's like the bullshit I hear all the time "why does they talk about violence against women? Men are also subjected to violence in their lives!"

Every person is free to choose which issues he or she wants to fight with.

Just from the fact she promotes gender equality doesn't mean she should use 50% of her time and assets to talk about men issues.

You, on the other hand, are free to do so.

If anything, I hate people telling others what they should do with their own time and money the most.
Posted May 29, 2013
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stika: (Yes, I know it's called "Tropes Vs. Women", but does it really make it any less sexist?)
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keeveek: I hate that kind of argument. She thinks sexism in video games is a serious issue and addresses that. She doesn't have any obligation to use her time on making videos about men being misrepresented in games.

If you think male sexism is an important issue in video games, maybe you should make a video about it.
Fucking BINGO! All these privileged, easily bruised male egos always come out of the woodwork like worms when women speak out, demanding that men be the focus. To every feminist critique of anything, the loudest response is always: "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MENZ!?!?". It's fuckin' sickening.
Posted May 29, 2013
low rated
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stika: So what you're saying is that her products are not required to represent both genders equally?

Well what do you know, it sounds just like the games she's addressing
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keeveek: Why should it? It's you who think this is an issue, so it's you who should do something about it.

It's like the bullshit I hear all the time "why does they talk about violence against women? Men are also subjected to violence in their lives!"

Every person is free to choose which issues he or she wants to fight with.

Just from the fact she promotes gender equality doesn't mean she should use 50% of her time and assets to talk about men issues.

You, on the other hand, are free to do so.

If anything, I hate people telling others what they should do with their own time and money the most.
I like how you ignored my counter argument.

I also like how you're saying you "hate people telling others what they should do with their own time and money the most."
When that's exactly what Anita is doing to the video game developers.

Irony much?
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keeveek: I hate that kind of argument. She thinks sexism in video games is a serious issue and addresses that. She doesn't have any obligation to use her time on making videos about men being misrepresented in games.

If you think male sexism is an important issue in video games, maybe you should make a video about it.
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HMDK: Fucking BINGO! All these privileged, easily bruised male egos always come out of the woodwork like worms when women speak out, demanding that men be the focus. To every feminist critique of anything, the loudest response is always: "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MENZ!?!?". It's fuckin' sickening.
Yes! How dare men have issues or feelings! Only women should have those! D:<
Post edited May 29, 2013 by stika
Posted May 29, 2013
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stika: Irony much?
The main difference being, she's a customer, she pays for games, so she has every right to make claims and demands.

You do nothing, you just complain. You expect other people will fight for what you seem is right.

Like HMDK said " What about menz!?!?!?!" is the stupidest argument around. If all that men writing such comments think it's an importan thing, they should maybe, just maybe, do something about it, instead of ordering feminists around and "muh men feels!".

Take example from feminists and move your sorry ass. Do not tell what others should do and which issues they should address.

Or maybe you don't think misrepresentation of men in video gaming is a serious issue, and you are just using this "argument" for the sake of the argument, not to do something or change anything.
Post edited May 29, 2013 by keeveek
Posted May 29, 2013
low rated
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keeveek: The main difference being, she's a customer, she pays for games, so she has every right to make claims and demands.
Oh so free entertainment is free from critique? Oh you must live in a world very different from the real one

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keeveek: You do nothing, you just complain. You expect other people will fight for what you seem is right.
So you don't even know me and you already know who I am, what I do or what I expect? Sounds like you're generalizing, isn't that usually the first step towards sexism or racism?

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keeveek: Like HMDK said " What about menz!?!?!?!" is the stupidest argument around. If all that men writing such comments think it's an importan thing, they should maybe, just maybe, do something about it, instead of ordering feminists around.
Yes! How dare men have feelings! Only women should have those!

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keeveek: Take example from feminists and move your sorry ass. Do not tell what others should do and which issues they should address.
Excuse me? Last time I checked, Anita isn't making a videogame with a strong female character.
She's complaining that other people AREN'T making a videogame as per her demands

again, gotta love the irony

EDIT: And now that I think about it, you're complaining and telling ME what to do, oh the irony just keeps getting more and more delicious
Post edited May 29, 2013 by stika
Posted May 29, 2013
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htown1980: I've only watched a bit of the two parter about her and the response to her first Tropes video. The start of the one about her seems to be a pretty weak criticism of a college thesis. Anyone who has written or read a college thesis will know that they are really easy targets. I hope it gets a bit better than that as it goes on and actually deals with the comments on women and tropes in media.
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granny: Everything needs a starting point, and her thesis is as good a place as any. Over the two parts, it does cover how she presents herself, how she manipulates situations to her advantage, and other general inconsistencies in her views. Not wholly related to games, but given she has apparently become the face of feminist gaming, I think they are, at the very least, interesting to take note of.
it is a college thesis, or UG thesis as we say here. They are heavily influenced by a supervisor and written to pass a module. It is written by a person still very much in the starting position when it comes to research, it is by its nature underdeveloped, immature and hastily written. Judging by her age, I would assume that she was what we would call a "young adult" when it was written, probably coming straight to college after school, so she would have very little experience by then. If this the kind of work you judge other by, then go ahead.... I will not.
Posted May 29, 2013
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stika: EDIT: And now that I think about it, you're complaining and telling ME what to do, oh the irony just keeps getting more and more delicious
Your basic lacks of comprehension just annoy me, so sorry, I am done responding to you.

Keep crying in the corner about how men's life is hard and don't forget to write to all feminists in your country they should take care of your issues for you.
Posted May 29, 2013
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granny: Everything needs a starting point, and her thesis is as good a place as any. Over the two parts, it does cover how she presents herself, how she manipulates situations to her advantage, and other general inconsistencies in her views. Not wholly related to games, but given she has apparently become the face of feminist gaming, I think they are, at the very least, interesting to take note of.
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amok: it is a college thesis, or UG thesis as we say here. They are heavily influenced by a supervisor and written to pass a module. It is written by a person still very much in the starting position when it comes to research, it is by its nature underdeveloped, immature and hastily written. Judging by her age, I would assume that she was what we would call a "young adult" when it was written, probably coming straight to college after school, so she would have very little experience by then. If this the kind of work you judge other by, then go ahead.... I will not.
While I do not like Anita's viewpoints or videos, I agree with this. Attacking her thesis is a very poor argument, how many people who are straight out of college have a clear vision of what they want and are good at it?

College is a place for preparation and her thesis is just her beginning, it shouldn't judge who she is now
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stika: EDIT: And now that I think about it, you're complaining and telling ME what to do, oh the irony just keeps getting more and more delicious
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keeveek: Your basic lacks of comprehension just annoy me, so sorry, I am done responding to you.

Keep crying in the corner about how men's life is hard and don't forget to write to all feminists in your country they should take care of your issues for you.
I like how you just completely gave up on the argument and even chose to use personal attacks.

If you cannot form a coherent argument, may I suggest you do not engage in discussions?
Post edited May 29, 2013 by stika
Posted May 29, 2013
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keeveek: I hate that kind of argument. She thinks sexism in video games is a serious issue and addresses that. She doesn't have any obligation to use her time on making videos about men being misrepresented in games.

If you think male sexism is an important issue in video games, maybe you should make a video about it.
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stika: So what you're saying is that her products are not required to represent both genders equally?

Well what do you know, it sounds just like the games she's addressing
She also hasn't made a video game about black people, white people, asian people or indigenous Australians being misrepresented in games.

I think the point is, she doesn't think men are being misrepresented in games, that's why she is not making a video about it. If you think they are, make a video about it. If it was well done, I would watch it.
Posted May 29, 2013
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langurmonkey: Everything she is talking about in PC and console games happens to male characters too. For example, in the game Mafia II, several times, you have to rescue helpless male characters. And if you believe there isn't 10000x more violence towards male characters in games, you haven't played a lot of games. So this is not a case of men not caring because it doesn't happen to them. This is a case of people except crazy feminists not caring.
The 'males in distress' tends to be worthless sidekicks, distractions and so on, not a main character. The amount of women in distress is also outnumbered by a huge margin. 1 case do not make the 100 cases valid, especially when the importance of the characters are not equal.

Violence against men is also portrayed differently than violence women, see if you spot any difference next time. It is still part of the 'male power fantasy'.
Posted May 29, 2013
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stika: So what you're saying is that her products are not required to represent both genders equally?

Well what do you know, it sounds just like the games she's addressing
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htown1980: She also hasn't made a video game about black people, white people, asian people or indigenous Australians being misrepresented in games.

I think the point is, she doesn't think men are being misrepresented in games, that's why she is not making a video about it. If you think they are, make a video about it. If it was well done, I would watch it.
If she doesn't think men are mis-represented in videogames... what does that say about her?

I don't know about you, but I doubt anyone here looks and acts like Kratos
Posted May 29, 2013
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htown1980: She also hasn't made a video game about black people, white people, asian people or indigenous Australians being misrepresented in games.

I think the point is, she doesn't think men are being misrepresented in games, that's why she is not making a video about it. If you think they are, make a video about it. If it was well done, I would watch it.
Yeah, it's like saying "you make a fundraiser for kids with leukemia? What about other cancers, you scum? What about them?! Why don't you raise money for other people too?! You motherfuckers !!!!"

makes absolutely zero sense whatsoever.
Posted May 29, 2013
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htown1980: She also hasn't made a video game about black people, white people, asian people or indigenous Australians being misrepresented in games.

I think the point is, she doesn't think men are being misrepresented in games, that's why she is not making a video about it. If you think they are, make a video about it. If it was well done, I would watch it.
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keeveek: Yeah, it's like saying "you make a fundraiser for kids with leukemia? What about other cancers, you scum? What about them?! Why don't you raise money for other people too?! You motherfuckers !!!!"

makes absolutely zero sense whatsoever.
Non-sequitur much?
Post edited May 29, 2013 by stika
Posted May 29, 2013
low rated
You know, were it not for men's primitive, biological instinct to breed, we'd probably just hunt women for sport.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)New Tropes Versus Women Video!(803 posts)(803 posts)
(803 posts)