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General discussion (archive)Naughty Dog wants to change video game industry(101 posts)(101 posts)
(101 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted December 13, 2011
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darknath: try running through HL2
That alone is a challenge. I haven't finished the game once and I have it since 2004. I've spent more time reading and re-reading Concerned that playing it.
Posted December 13, 2011
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Snickersnack: Interesting. Would you find a "Let's Play" video of game from a skillfull/ entertaining player more enjoyable than playing it yourself? I know I screw up the scripting in games constantly.
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darknath: Who says i'm not a skillful and/or entertaining player?

no because part of how the game tells the story is by making you believe you are in that world, experiencing those events.

if i'm watching a video it's not ME experiencing that story.

and i want to enjoy the story in my own way.. like you say some people go screw around with physics.. thats not fun for me.. and in RPG's i want the story to revolve around the character i create, not what some other guy creates..

and i myself tend not to fuck about, i stay on the path of the game, and generally always look where the dev would want me to look, and follow the path set as the optimal for story progression
I dunno, whenever I start a new game for the first time, I tend to find I'm pretty unskilled. ;) Really, what I was getting at with that point is that a player who played as a sort of actor and practiced a routine to make a game play out like a movie might be more entertaining to watch, if game play is just a means towards an end.

I find in many games I can screw up the scripting just by walking instead running. Conversations will fire and be half finished before I get in ear shot. : (

If a quality prerecorded playthrough deprives you of character ownership, does that mean you need some of simulation aspects the gaming medium provides or would a "choose your own adventure" style suffice?
Posted December 13, 2011
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darknath: Who says i'm not a skillful and/or entertaining player?

no because part of how the game tells the story is by making you believe you are in that world, experiencing those events.

if i'm watching a video it's not ME experiencing that story.

and i want to enjoy the story in my own way.. like you say some people go screw around with physics.. thats not fun for me.. and in RPG's i want the story to revolve around the character i create, not what some other guy creates..

and i myself tend not to fuck about, i stay on the path of the game, and generally always look where the dev would want me to look, and follow the path set as the optimal for story progression
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Snickersnack: If a quality prerecorded playthrough deprives you of character ownership, does that mean you need some of simulation aspects the gaming medium provides or would a "choose your own adventure" style suffice?
not sure what you mean by those 2 terms.. sry
Posted December 13, 2011
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Snickersnack: If a quality prerecorded playthrough deprives you of character ownership, does that mean you need some of simulation aspects the gaming medium provides or would a "choose your own adventure" style suffice?
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darknath: not sure what you mean by those 2 terms.. sry
Do you need to be in control of everything your character does (simulation) or would only having control of decisions during critical plot points (choose your own adventure style) suffice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choose_your_own_adventure

Simulation is only practical in the gaming medium. If you want simulation along with stories I think I might understand ~"story in games is everything & game stories do a much better job than most movies". An interesting perspective.
Posted December 13, 2011
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darknath: not sure what you mean by those 2 terms.. sry
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Snickersnack: Do you need to be in control of everything your character does (simulation) or would only having control of decisions during critical plot points (choose your own adventure style) suffice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choose_your_own_adventure

Simulation is only practical in the gaming medium. If you want simulation along with stories I think I might understand ~"story in games is everything & game stories do a much better job than most movies". An interesting perspective.
Iit's not so much whether or not i make the decisions in the game (that's what i get you mean by your explanation) - i'm fine with being guided through a crafted story, by some developer..

it's key that I get to experience this story though.. that I carry out these actions whether I myself choose the actions (games like Skyrim, Witcher etc.) or i just follow out a pre-determined path (linear games like Uncharted)..

as long as I get to experience that story, and i get the feeling that either I experienced some events, or that i took part in some character experiencing them..
Posted December 13, 2011
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GameRager:
btw, how the hell do you have only 1 rep again?
Posted December 13, 2011
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darknath: try running through HL2
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grviper: That alone is a challenge. I haven't finished the game once and I have it since 2004. I've spent more time reading and re-reading Concerned that playing it.
I picked it up on the XBox for about $3 used and beat it. Its very overrated, certainly not bad, but forgettable. The ending was pathetic. i actually liked the game BLACK muck better and that game is underrated.
Posted December 13, 2011
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KneeTheCap: Wow...

You guys need to be more open-minded with new games :)
I insta-bought Avernum: Escape from the Pit yesterday on release. That's pretty open-minded for a new game, right? :)
Posted December 14, 2011
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GameRager: Why are games being more movie like a bad thing? I remember years ago people clamoring for more movielike gaming, claiming it would make games even more "artistic" a medium. Now people get more rich and beautiful games and complain they want it like it used to be instead.

Methinks people are just too whiny & don't know what they want.
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StingingVelvet: I think both styles have their fans, and that's good. I said myself that I liked the interactive movie feel of Mass Effect for example. It's just that games can do so much MORE than that and this developer is acting like the interactive movie is the pinnacle, the gold standard. I disagree completely.
How did you get from the article that they think the interactive movie is the "the pinnacle, the gold standard"?

He said "We're not saying every game needs a strong, compelling and dramatic story, but if you are going to make a narrative-based game then you better learn the craft."


That part, along with the rest of the article, sounds to me like he's saying that you don't need a game to be an "interactive movie for " for it be great , but IF you are trying to make an "interactive movie", learn how to tell the story well ( he mentioned characters, better voice acting as ways to help improve storytelling)
I don't understand what people are getting so upset about
Post edited December 14, 2011 by CaptainGyro
Posted December 14, 2011
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CaptainGyro: That part, along with the rest of the article, sounds to me like he's saying that you don't need a game to be an "interactive movie for " for it be great , but IF you are trying to make an "interactive movie", learn how to tell the story well ( he mentioned characters, better voice acting as ways to help improve storytelling)
I don't understand what people are getting so upset about
Their next Blockbuster/Revolutionary game is going to be a love story about a father and his daughter. Are they serious? They think that they can raise the gaming bar with that? LOL.
Posted December 14, 2011
Quest for Story: So you want to change the video game industry?

Here's my issue with the whole thing: This is a regional issue. I would argue that Japanese games, for the most part, aren't having issues creating strong narratives or a compelling story. Sure, Resident Evil is an action franchise, but they have an entire world created that they can build off and reference, and you see the entire series being one giant storyline from the first game in 1995 all the way to the present. Character development plays into that, which is something the Japanese are damn good at. Look at Metal Gear Solid, Silent Hill, Final Fantasy, etc. The list goes on and on. Sure, you have games that are bad and you might say the storylines of some games I listed are confusing or just bad, but you can't deny the focus has been on character development and creating a giant narrative.

Western games used to have this approach, but the mass appeal of gaming to the Western (particularly US) markets caused it to focus on style over substance. Sure, there are exceptions now and then, but do you really think Deus Ex: Human Revolution is going to outsell Modern Warfare 3? Western audiences don't care for the character development, they want instant gratification and something that they don't have to think too hard to understand. Compare Silent Hill 1-4 to Silent Hill: Homecoming and look at the difference in gameplay and storytelling.

Honestly, a notable break I see from this is surprisingly the Dead Space series. We have a series that is notable for being gory and focused on dismemberment, yet is full of characters with backstory and a narrative that spans across numerous forms of media. Even if it is a game built for marketing, you can't deny the painstaking effort that has gone into the development of the story and characters.

Ultimately, I think ND have a valid argument but I don't see how they can change the Western gaming industry. Corporations like Activision, EA, etc. are concerned with money, and spend vast amounts of money on studying what the average gamer wants. If the corporations want to spend money and take legitimate pride in developing a solid title, that's great. But if they are only concerned with making profit and seek only to exploit the market, things will never change.
Posted December 14, 2011
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CaptainGyro: That part, along with the rest of the article, sounds to me like he's saying that you don't need a game to be an "interactive movie for " for it be great , but IF you are trying to make an "interactive movie", learn how to tell the story well ( he mentioned characters, better voice acting as ways to help improve storytelling)
I don't understand what people are getting so upset about
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Heretic777: Their next Blockbuster/Revolutionary game is going to be a love story about a father and his daughter. Are they serious? They think that they can raise the gaming bar with that? LOL.
ugh.
If you simplify it that much you can make anything LOL worthy.

I thought it was incredibly obvious that the intent of his comments wasn't to reveal exactly what the story was about, or to convince us that we were supposed to be blown away by that small descrption. He even said "This is going to sound corny, and it might not appeal to gamers"
Post edited December 14, 2011 by CaptainGyro
Posted December 14, 2011
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GameRager:
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jefequeso: btw, how the hell do you have only 1 rep again?
I angered the rep gods? Maybe I should make an offering at the temple before the enemy priest converts it?
Posted December 14, 2011
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Wraith: and you see the entire series being one giant storyline from the first game in 1995 all the way to the present
One giant ride full of plot holes and leaps of logic ranging from minor details in a single game to story interconnections.
Posted December 14, 2011
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Wraith: and you see the entire series being one giant storyline from the first game in 1995 all the way to the present
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grviper: One giant ride full of plot holes and leaps of logic ranging from minor details in a single game to story interconnections.
They're games meant to be enjoyed...not works of Shakespeare meant to be critiqued to death. :P

:)
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)Naughty Dog wants to change video game industry(101 posts)(101 posts)
(101 posts)