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Delixe: I'm sure the truth will be out soon enough. Lulzsec is not what I care about, in fact I couldn't care less if the lot of them are shipped to Guantanamo. My problem is US corporations want these people tried in the US because US law favours the corporations. Which is understandable but it's very short sighted. If US corporations get their way then the door swings both ways. You will soon find countries like Egypt, Syria, China and Iran will want the same rules and you don't want to know about the legal processes in those countries. What happens when US hackers are accused of hacking Chinese websites and China demands the US citizens are handed over to face trial in China?
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cogadh: Simple, if there is sufficient evidence, they should be handed over to China for trial, just as would happen with any other extradition situation. We are talking about criminals here; they should know that if they engage in international cyber-crime, they may face more than just their home country's legal ramifications. I'm not going to lose any sleep over that.
I totally agree with that.

You mess with Chinese govt. by hacking their servers? Prepare to be executed in China. I couldn't care less about their lives.
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Delixe: What happens when US hackers are accused of hacking Chinese websites and China demands the US citizens are handed over to face trial in China?
China will get them . And they will be executed .
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cogadh: Simple, if there is sufficient evidence, they should be handed over to China for trial, just as would happen with any other extradition situation. We are talking about criminals here; they should know that if they engage in international cyber-crime, they may face more than just their home country's legal ramifications. I'm not going to lose any sleep over that.
We know that won't happen though. A US citizen running a campaign against the Iranian government like Anon did being extradited to face possible execution? It will never happen and that's why the US is always accused of international hypocracy.
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cogadh: Simple, if there is sufficient evidence, they should be handed over to China for trial, just as would happen with any other extradition situation. We are talking about criminals here; they should know that if they engage in international cyber-crime, they may face more than just their home country's legal ramifications. I'm not going to lose any sleep over that.
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Delixe: We know that won't happen though. A US citizen running a campaign against the Iranian government like Anon did being extradited to face possible execution? It will never happen and that's why the US is always accused of international hypocracy.
You can't see the difference between doing something in the U.S. like running a campaign, and attacking servers located in some other country?
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cogadh: BTW - US corporations have nothing to do with this, the FBI want the guy in the US to answer for the CIA hack, that's it.
The FBI is the start. The corporations will follow. Just wait till the UK governmet roll over and have their belly scratched as usual. All the record companies and the movie producers and all game publishers will want pirates extradited to California to face prosecution by US law.
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keeveek: You can't see the difference between doing something in the U.S. like running a campaign, and attacking servers located in some other country?
Setting up proxy internet access for people in Libya is against Libyan law. Same can be said for Chinese law.
Post edited June 21, 2011 by Delixe
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cogadh: BTW - US corporations have nothing to do with this, the FBI want the guy in the US to answer for the CIA hack, that's it.
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Delixe: The FBI is the start. The corporations will follow. Just wait till the UK governmet roll over and have their belly scratched as usual. All the record companies and the movie producers and all game publishers will want pirates extradited to California to face prosecution by US law.
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keeveek: You can't see the difference between doing something in the U.S. like running a campaign, and attacking servers located in some other country?
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Delixe: Setting up proxy internet access for people in Libya is against Libyan law. Same can be said for Chinese law.
But you see a difference between hacking & stealing and actions that are clearly POLITICAL, do you?

for example, polish extradition law forbids to hand over a person who is prosecuted with POLITICAL actions, actions that are not forbidden in Poland, and to extradict a person to a country where death sentence could be rendered.
Post edited June 21, 2011 by keeveek
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cogadh: Simple, if there is sufficient evidence, they should be handed over to China for trial, just as would happen with any other extradition situation. We are talking about criminals here; they should know that if they engage in international cyber-crime, they may face more than just their home country's legal ramifications. I'm not going to lose any sleep over that.
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Delixe: We know that won't happen though. A US citizen running a campaign against the Iranian government like Anon did being extradited to face possible execution? It will never happen and that's why the US is always accused of international hypocracy.
That would never happen because the US has no formal relations with Iran, not because the US government is hypocritical (just to be clear, I am not saying that the US government is not hypocritical, just that their hypocrisy is not the reason for this situation). Any country we do have formal relations with (or more accurately, extradition treaties with) should expect quid pro quo; we extradite criminals to their shores, they extradite to ours.
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cogadh: BTW - US corporations have nothing to do with this, the FBI want the guy in the US to answer for the CIA hack, that's it.
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Delixe: The FBI is the start. The corporations will follow. Just wait till the UK governmet roll over and have their belly scratched as usual. All the record companies and the movie producers and all game publishers will want pirates extradited to California to face prosecution by US law.
Now you're starting to sound a little tin-foil hattish.
Post edited June 21, 2011 by cogadh
That would never happen because the US has no formal relations with Iran, not because the US government is hypocritical (just to be clear, I am not saying that the US government is not hypocritical, just that their hypocrisy is not the reason for this situation). Any country we do have formal relations with should expect quid pro quo; we extradite criminals to their shores, they extradite to ours.
U.S. has ended every diplomatic relations after some bad shit happended in U.S. embassy in Iran afair?

And Delixe read more about extradition laws more carefully. Not every action that is forbidden in some country will result in extradition.
Post edited June 21, 2011 by keeveek
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cogadh: Current rumor is they are responsible for the Netflix outage this weekend that still isn't completely fixed, but no one is admitting/claiming responsibility for anything (so far).
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Delixe: They just keep on making fans don't they? They likely wont admit it because people would be royally pissed off. Then again that didn't stop them enjoying their private lulz at Sony while millions were pissed off being unable to play online.
Sonyhackgate was an ill-timed event from the start, if the major theft of financial information can every be called "well-timed". Japan's still hurting from the earthquakes and the near-meltdowns. You start poking at MegaJapanCorp, no matter which regional division, and somewhere along the line in the company's native country some low-level employees are going to start losing jobs, especially if the company has to start handing out freebies to keep their disgruntled customers. "Fuck you, Sony! You're taking too damn long getting the store back online so I can buy more things! Nevermind you're still trying to rebuild your country after a national disaster, I want my new things NOW!" God forbid the earthquakes had sent shockwaves clear across the Pacific to heap tidal waves on California, and the Sony Computer Entertainment America (the actual Sony Corporation buildings are in New York) offices be destroyed. "Fuck you Sony! You're not rebuilding your offices fast enough! You're in San Fran-friggin'-cisco! You ought to have enough practice rebuilding quickly after disasters by now! "

Most of this rant has fuck-all to do with Lulzsec, but it's sort of a cross section of the major demographic affected, and the order of their priorities. The first "letter" Lulzsec wrote when bragging about their theft of Bethesda's data raised a valid point about people these days forgetting major events at or around the two-week "since" mark. I mean, I hardly hear anyone talking about Osama's death anymore. It's only sparsely referenced in a few late-night talk show monologues, when the punchline involves "(insert noun here) Team Six)". And again I'm rambling already.... The perils of 36-hour shifts.

The point being, I hardly believe these guys are sincere in their "Robin Hood" intentions, and are more likely sensing their imminent doom and want to go out with a flash. And then when the Feds/SAS/GSG 9/WhatHaveYou come a-knockin', quickly pass over their stacks of blade servers with cardiac defibrillators and toss their CDs in the microwave, like that kid from The Core. Only this time, they'll be getting a different brand of Hot Pockets.
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cogadh: Now you're starting to sound a little tin-foil hattish.
No just a little world weary and always sceptical when money is involved. I probably am over reacting and reading too much into it. I also do want to see the end of the nobs involved with Lulzsec. I just worry if we are on the start of a dangerous slope here. Sony already demonstrated that no matter the reason, if you fuck around with their hardware then they are going to sue you to hell. Sony are not exceptional in this regard. If there was a chance someone like Warner Brothers could justify extraditing everyone who ever downloaded one of their films illegally for prosecution do you think they wont?
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cogadh: Now you're starting to sound a little tin-foil hattish.
I guess you have to Live in the UK to not consider this that unlikely. The British parliament is good for three things, bending over for other countries, spending all our tax money on moats, and watching us with security cameras.
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keeveek: U.S. has ended every diplomatic relations after some bad shit happended in U.S. embassy in Iran afair?

And Delixe read more about extradition laws more carefully. Not every action that is forbidden in some country will result in extradition.
I'm aware of that I was just using Iran as an example of an extreme form of government. North Korea doesn't have a treaty either so I don't expect any anti-Kim campaigners to be extradited any day now. However the US does have treaties with countries with questionable legal systems such as Saudi Arabia. Would the US allow extradition of a US citizen to Saudi Arabia so they can get their hands chopped off? No.
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keeveek: U.S. has ended every diplomatic relations after some bad shit happended in U.S. embassy in Iran afair?
We have not had formal diplomatic relations with Iran since 1980, just after the Islamic Revolution and the hostage crisis at the US embassy in Tehran. Our only point of contact with Iran is through the Swiss embassy in Iran and the Pakistani embassy in the US.
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keeveek: U.S. has ended every diplomatic relations after some bad shit happended in U.S. embassy in Iran afair?

And Delixe read more about extradition laws more carefully. Not every action that is forbidden in some country will result in extradition.
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Delixe: I'm aware of that I was just using Iran as an example of an extreme form of government. North Korea doesn't have a treaty either so I don't expect any anti-Kim campaigners to be extradited any day now. However the US does have treaties with countries with questionable legal systems such as Saudi Arabia. Would the US allow extradition of a US citizen to Saudi Arabia so they can get their hands chopped off? No.
We don't have an extradition treaty with Saudi Arabia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extradition_treaties

BTW - You act like the US is the only one who does things like this. I'm sure you are aware that many countries, even ones we already have treaties with, won't extradite to the US simply because we have the death penalty in some states. If there is even the slightest chance that someone might face the death penalty in the US, no matter how heinous the crime, they won't get extradited here.
Post edited June 21, 2011 by cogadh
SVR and Mossad don't need the permission of the US goverment . :)
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keeveek: U.S. has ended every diplomatic relations after some bad shit happended in U.S. embassy in Iran afair?

And Delixe read more about extradition laws more carefully. Not every action that is forbidden in some country will result in extradition.
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Delixe: I'm aware of that I was just using Iran as an example of an extreme form of government. North Korea doesn't have a treaty either so I don't expect any anti-Kim campaigners to be extradited any day now. However the US does have treaties with countries with questionable legal systems such as Saudi Arabia. Would the US allow extradition of a US citizen to Saudi Arabia so they can get their hands chopped off? No.
Remember Elian Gonzalez? By strict definition, not exactly an "extradition", but just read about his life after returning to Cuba. While you're at it, read about Operation Peter Pan.