Mixture of the RPS series of posts on Solium Infernum and the other thread on Strategy Games got me wondering.
Does anyone know of any good 4x games with a fantasy theme and the ability to use magic? Magic as in direct-damage spells/whatever (even if just in the form of an ICBM) or for the traditional Espionage-style thingies of other 4x games. And preferably from pretty early in the game, since non-direct attacks (missiles and the like, for the Civs) tend to be late game, and Espionage sucks until late game in any space 4x (and forever, if your opponents have half a brain :p)
I am preferably looking for something that is available from GoG, Impulse, or Steam (in that order :p), just for convenience. Age isn't too big of an issue, although shiny is always nice :P
Thanks, and a big shiny Answer-flag to whoever gives me something that looks fun first.

I suppose I am the worst case then: I know what the law states, but I posted the link anyway. In my defense, had there been ANYPLACE ELSE that was selling Master of Magic, I would have linked to that place. I had to re-download it a few months ago (my original copy is long, long gone, lost in some move or other), and had there been an option to buy it back, I would have done so gladly.
I suppose I am an oddity that way: if there is a legit way to obtain something, I will always do that first. Warez sites and abandonware sites are always a last resort. That is why I don't feel overly bad about posting this particular link, bad form or not. There is no way to legitimately obtain the game and compensate the owners of the property, but I still think it is a game that is worth playing.
Edit:
Bleh, could have sworn I looked for someone selling a copy when I was looking a few months ago, but apparently Amazon does have sellers. They are selling for insanely high prices for a 16 year old game, but it does exist.
http://www.amazon.com/Master-of-Magic-DOS/dp/B00079V5WQ?SubscriptionId=0D7MQS8FNEE09YPRGE82&tag=squakenet_gamedirect-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00079V5WQ
I will note, that it doesn't exactly invalidate my reasoning, since this is a third party seller. The owner of the property still won't get paid, regardless. However, that is splitting hairs, so I will replace the link in my first post with this one.

No doubt... their betas are actual betas, not just free previews of the game. I'm soooo looking forward to the final product. :)

Just wanted to say that I don't think many people have much of an issue with abandonware sites and people getting out of print games from them (I know I have absolutely no issue with it). I think the initial request to remove the link was based more upon not wanting GOG to be caused any trouble on account of such links being posted on the forums.

No I was talking more about the people who were member of abandonware sites commenting on those sites about the injustice of games being removed so they could be sold on GOG. Oh the cheek.
It was those people who made it quite clear that although the games were now available again and at a reasonable price they had no intention of paying for them.

Well I do. Actually, if all games were at 30 euro price point right at release, I would be buying way more new games on release. On the other hand, discounts are usually cheaper, so I would probly waste more money... Hm.

I agree, no game should be more than 30 euros when released, but that's another issue, right? (though indeed kind of related, since I'm never going to pay $50 for this game).

Ya, no worries, the link is gone now anyway. When I initially made the post, I admit the legal issue never crossed my mind. Once it was brought up, I got a little defensive and pigheaded about it. Regardless, it won't happen again. Not worth the hassle, for me or potentially for GOG.

Easily Dominions 3. If you like it you'll probably play it the rest of your life.
It can be argued that it's still expensive because the substantial patches which add a lot of things. Granted there haven't been a big patch for a while.

That's more or less it in a nutshell. Since GOG uses the DRM free approach, it's very easy for the pro-DRM crowd to cry "Piracy!" at every opportunity. Having a forum where people openly and blatantly exchange links to pirated games will NOT help GOG in that situation.
Although I run the risk of sounding incredibly self-righteous, I have to say that I find it rather disrespectful towards GOG to use their forum in such a manner.

Well, when those pro-DRM folks can actually provide data that supports the claim that DRM actually reduces piracy, then maybe I'll give a flip what they say. There hasn't been a metric used that I have seen that can even remotely show a decrease in piracy when DRM is used. I have even seen some that actually show the opposite, since people don't like to install rootkits on the computers if at all possible. All DRM does is cost publishers sales for the PC, and it doesn't reduce piracy one iota.
Yep, just a tad over the top, in my opinion ;). Maybe if it were over a game they are actively selling I would agree, but in this case it isn't.

It is a steep, I agree. the price kept me from jumping in for a long time until a coupon came out that got it under $50 - for some reason that was a big block :p
that said, I would happily pay $50 for it now that I appreciate it. The game is made by 2 guys from Finland, iirc, who are not in it for the $ - one is a school teacher. They regularly update the game with new content. But bottom line, on a price per hour of entertainment, I doubt I have ever had a better deal. Especially when I think of those games I bought and then barely play for one reason or other. If you just check out the Dominions forums over at Shrapnel's website, you'll get a sense of the depth of the game. In fact, the wiki [url=]http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Main_Page[/url] is pretty illustrative as well. Anyway, I am hoping Elemental is cool, but am not a big fan of Stardock's other titles as they have seemed to me to lack the soul that I think is in games like MOO2 or Dom3.

Could you possibly link to the studies that show that a "major" game with no DRM sells better than one with it? Clearly you have data that supports this theory, since you are able to discredit other theories due to lack of data :p
I vaguely recall Popcap had a pseudo-study, but those are casual games, and there were other factors.
Seriously though, there is no real data for either side of the fence. One can argue that web-based and casual games sell better with less "invasive" DRM models (Popcap, I think), but one can also argue that "real" games (World of GOO) suffer from insanely high piracy rates that may or may not be impacted by DRM. So before you outright ignore what others say, think about if you actually have any backing for your own. "Cause guess what? None of us have backing :p
And Dominions 3 does look good, but very steep price. I may get it if it goes on sale.

While I agree World of GOO was hit very hard by piracy, especially given it was DRM free I think that was more to do with the fact that people were not interested enough in the game to buy it. I know I personally only bought it when it was in the Steam indie sale, if it wasn't I never would have bought it. World of GOO is a bad example IMO as it was a very niche game that would never have sold well even with a full retail release and SecuROM limited activations.
I'm not saying it was a bad game, far from it. It just didn't interest people enough to buy it and therefore the people who played it the most are the pirates.

A Study.
Although it is just a fringe argument, it illustrates my point. When I wrote my original statement I was thinking more of piracy with Spore and World of Goo. I'll keep looking for more statistics.