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General discussion (archive)Let's talk about gun sounds(56 posts)(56 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 21, 2012
The entire feel of firing a gun in videogames has always been a little off. Most of the time, the weapons feel more like airsoft guns than...well...weapons. And even games that do a pretty good job of it still don't even come close to the feeling of firing a real firearm. The fact of the matter is that it's impossible to completely simulate the feeling of a gunshot without real physical feedback. Games have to suggest this via sound, visual effects (screen hopping, while quite unrealistic, is very effective at communicating a sense of kickback), and some very limited control feedback (rumbling on consoles, mostly, although I've read there are some fancy PC peripherals that do some really awesome physical feedback). So naturally, it follows that having realistic sound work would go a long way toward making guns feel good.

Well actually no, it seems. I don't claim to be an expert on firearms (although I've fired a fair number of them), but there hasn't EVER been a videogame that sounds completely right to me (Far Cry 2 is the closest). Until recently, I thought this was due to a lack of bass... a lack of explosive "oomph." Rather than the snappy clattering of Call of Duty or similar games. But recently, someone pointed out that in real life, guns do sound fairly snappy and bass-less. Especially the M4 that I fired. Now that I think about it, you could even hear some ringing metal. But yet, the sound of Call of Duty machine guns is so far off from the sound of firing a real M4. It's not the lack of bass that bothers me, I guess. It's the lack of a feeling of power.

So what is it that makes guns sound so wrong? Perhaps it's the fact that the sound doesn't deafen your character? Perhaps it's the fact that you hear so many gunshots so frequently that you become numb to the effect? Or perhaps it's simply that the lack of physical feedback is really detrimental to how sounds are perceived? I realize that this isn't something that's important to most people... but it's a big topic of interest to me (Along with the broader topic of how to make guns overall feel as close to real life as possible. And I think that it has just as much to do with weapon behavior when you AREN'T shooting as it does with the firing effects. But that's another topic.)

So what are your thoughts?
Posted March 21, 2012
I've only fired M16s, Korean K-2s, and some old ass M1s I think they were, in ranges and not in combat. I also think gun sounds could get some realism, like when I was firing them, I would only hear thumps which become more dull as I became more deaf, and when I was hearing others fire, I'd only hear popping sounds. In games, you always hear like a machine-type of noise in detail -- I don't remember my shots, or anybody else's, in detail, just the loudest part of the sound waves like bangs and pops and a weird sense of distance as the echoes returned. Of course, kids would probably think those 'pops' sound much more fake than the crisp detailed grating machine-noise they hear from games.
Posted March 21, 2012
From what I've read, they deliberately don't make guns sound exactly as they do irl, because people's expectations of what a gun should sound like and what it actually does sound like are different.

Good little article on it here.
Posted March 21, 2012
Hmmm....

We (they wife and I) just got started in shooting, and we're still on the virtual range. Not going to pony up for the real thing until we decide whether or not we enjoy target shooting enough to shell out that kind of money. Anyway, the v-range doesn't quite give the right sounds but it certainly gives a proper kick. Obviously, that aspect is lacking from the standpoint of physical feedback.

What I'm finding, now that you mention it, is that games do stray quite a bit from reality in ways other than that kick. For instance, the human eye can't perfectly focus on both sights on a handgun at the same time, let alone a target downrange. While at least one game I've played, O:FP, gave a bit of a nod to this by blurring the iron-sights when using the aimed-mode, I don't recall seeing this in other games (my experience in new titles is almost nil, fwiw).

The sound, too, will likely be a bit off for pistols as the noise comes from in front of the shooter. Do today's shooters at least simulate noise favoring the right ear when firing rifles? And as with light and shadow for the graphical portion of the game, do they simulate the difference in sound between firing inside and outside?

One other thing I'd like to see is that the sight picture starts to waver after a while of using the aimed-mode (zoom, whatever they call it) for an extended period. Holding on target for even ten seconds isn't the easiest thing to do. Games should also look into how the weapon is carried. One does not hold a weapon upright the entire time, so there ought to be some consideration for the time to raise the weapon and obtain that initial focus and sight picture. Does the ArmA series approach this with more realism? Or is that asking too much from what is, essentially, a piece of entertainment?
Posted March 21, 2012
OP: Dude you have to play Soldier of Fortune 1 and 2. Those 2 games are the only "modern warfare" games that get the feel of the sounds right. (note: I said 'feel of the sounds', not 'the sounds')

All IMO o'course.
Posted March 21, 2012
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HereForTheBeer: One other thing I'd like to see is that the sight picture starts to waver after a while of using the aimed-mode (zoom, whatever they call it) for an extended period. Holding on target for even ten seconds isn't the easiest thing to do. Games should also look into how the weapon is carried. One does not hold a weapon upright the entire time, so there ought to be some consideration for the time to raise the weapon and obtain that initial focus and sight picture. Does the ArmA series approach this with more realism? Or is that asking too much from what is, essentially, a piece of entertainment?
It's an interesting question, and one I've been putting a lot of thought into (there are two "dream FPSs" that I want to do. The one being absolutely unrealistically insane--like, firefight inside a tornado sort of insane--and the other paying attention to feelings of realism.). The system I kind of thought would strike a pretty good balance between realism and fun would be this:

gun is by default lowered, but can still be fired from the hip. You just don't see it, and it's really inaccurate. Holding the right mouse button raises the weapon to your shoulder in the classic FPS position. No crosshair, and shots are still a little inaccurate. When standing still, however, the weapon moves to a ADS view, which is the most accurate, but can't be used while moving (obviously).

I also kinda like the system Operation Flashpoint uses, where your crosshair moves freely around the screen and it has to be a certain distance from the middle for your view to move. In other words, the weapon is truly aimed freely, and if you turn the crosshair graphic off, it feels almost exactly like trying to aim a gun from the hip in real life. Aka, extremely difficult at all but the closest ranges.
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lowyhong: OP: Dude you have to play Soldier of Fortune 1 and 2. Those 2 games are the only "modern warfare" games that get the feel of the sounds right. (note: I said 'feel of the sounds', not 'the sounds')

All IMO o'course.
I agree completely. I haven't played the first, but I'm a huge fan of the SoFII weapons. As you say, the sounds feel very...right. Especially the M16. POWPOWPOWPOWPOWPOWPOW! And the rest of the soundwork involving the guns is awesome too. Reloading a Micro Uzi is absolutely delicious every time.

I do like the sounds in Far Cry 2 a little bit more, though.
Post edited March 21, 2012 by jefequeso
Posted March 22, 2012
What about the gun sounds from BF3 ?.
Posted March 22, 2012
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nijuu: What about the gun sounds from BF3 ?.
Unreal :D
The audio is almost identical to the ''real world' counterparts.

I have only fired an M16 and a revolver of some brand.
Posted March 22, 2012
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jefequeso: So what are your thoughts?
Lack of proper sound engineers on most dev teams, and the fact that most devs / pubs don't give a crap about quality of audio (sounds and music) in games.
Posted March 22, 2012
Dey go bang.

I know little else.
Posted March 22, 2012
I don't want realistic gun sounds.

I want Hollywood! I want big ass gunflashes and awesome lion roars! The best gunsound I've ever heard was the Aliens pulse rifle.
Posted March 22, 2012
Original Doom shotgun is still probably the best gun sound ever, which is kind of sad.
Posted March 22, 2012
I'm yet to find a game gun sounding as crappy and lame as the pistol in HL2. Come to think of it, I hate most sounds in HL2. Maybe that's why I rarely play it.
Posted March 22, 2012
Well I always liked the sound of STALKER: SoC weapons the most. The rest of STALKER series probably has those as well, but SoC was the first place I've noticed them. The guns just sound and feel right in that game. I think that's for a very simple reason: Try playing the game with headphones, with volume set so you can clearly hear background noises as in any other game. Then, shoot. It's ripping your ears off, right? Well that's what continuous gunfire should do. Even Far Cry 2's weapons felt like peashooters after that.
Posted March 22, 2012
I thought the gun sounds in the old DOS shooters like Doom and Duke 3D were great, you can't help but feel badass when you shotgun a pig-man or a demon at point blank.
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)Let's talk about gun sounds(56 posts)(56 posts)
(56 posts)