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Navagon: Nobody with at least half a functioning brain would do that. As stated above, psychos could be influenced by anything. We're not about to consider banning everything, are we?

That is true, there are murderers who kill for the name of Jesus, Allah, and the Easter Bunny/Santa cult. Satanists sacrifice animals for someone you can guess. Anything can influence an unstable mind and give them an object to praise, but the actions are all the same regardless of which invisible man in the sky they are done for.
The fact that there are hundreds of millions, if not billions, of people playing violent games on a regular basis who DON'T fall into patterns of violence should be a clue that gameplay based on violent acts is not the root cause of those actions.
One can use the same type of reasoning found in these studies for just about anything that has the potential for harm in the wrong hands, such as alcohol or firearms. Irresponsible or unbalanced people will find a way to cause harm no matter where they gain their inspiration.
VIDJUMA GMAES ARE THE DEVIL
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tb87670: Satanists sacrifice animals for someone you can guess.

*ahem* Theistic Satanists.
I researched this for High School once. The conclusions done by most scientists tended to show a brief increase in aggression due to an increase in adrenaline, but after the adrenaline moved through the subjects' systems. I'm sure all of us who've played a violent game, especially a fast action game, have noticed this.
At most, unless something has changed, it looks like violent games might cause an increase in a propensity for aggressive behavior for a brief period of time. And remember, aggression doesn't necessarily equate to violence. It takes one hell of a leap in logic to take that and claim it'll turn a stable person into a sociopathic monster.
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DarrkPhoenix: An immediate red flag on the study is that it's actually a meta-analysis: basically the guy took a whole bunch of other studies people have done then compiled the results. These kinds of meta-studies are rarely any more accurate or conclusive than any individual study, and also offer many opportunities to introduce errors in methodology on top of any problems with the original studies. In short, nothing much to see here.
Yeah, and of those studies he chose, most were biased or found to use unreliable methodology. Hell, some weren't even published beforehand. Sounds like he did a crappy study of a bunch of other crappy studies and called it science. It also looks like Iowa State's Violence Research Center has already had a number of problems with reliability in the past.
So anyone know if someone's explained why (at least I think from the 80-early 2000s) violent crime has seen a steady drop if violent games have such an impact? It's a pretty casual link for sure, but I still haven't seen much in the way of real world (read: out of a lab setting) evidence by these proponents to indicate violent games pose such a large threat.
Games makes us, not violent but competitive.
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tb87670: Satanists sacrifice animals for someone you can guess.
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Shalgroth: *ahem* Theistic Satanists.

Yeah, I was just about to mention that "Satanists" do not in fact worship Satan. They do not even believe in him. It's a rather awkward choice of name for a philosophy, but there you go.
Post edited March 04, 2010 by Wishbone
I think playing a competitive sport is much more likely to incite violence than a video game is. Even I a usually very calm person have gotten into fights at school because of the adrenaline and competitive nature of sports yet not only are they condoned but are mandatory in school.
I suspect this "scientist" had decided what the conclusion would be before any actual research was done.
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TheCheese33: I never understood why professionals would want to make up crap to support their absurd claims. Isn't the idea of these kind of tests to uncover the truth? Wouldn't they achieve the same sort recognition for either proving or disproving these ideas correctly? Do certain, messed-up scientists get a hard-on for lying to people and seeing them eat it all up because it came from a scientist? Does that give them a power high?

Follow the money. Sadly, a surprising number of scientific studies are financially backed by privately owned corporations, and the results of these studies will thus tend to support the sponsors' views.
Post edited March 04, 2010 by tor
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tb87670: Satanists sacrifice animals for someone you can guess.

FYI: You're thinking more of devil worshippers. Satanists model themselves on Satan. So rather than praise him, they praise themselves. They don't necessarily believe there is a Satan.
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Shalgroth: But sure, let's focus on videogames as the ultimate evil in this world, rather than focusing on a lack of personal accountability.
Let's all blame the other guy, because we are above what is wrong.
"Children are educated by what the grown-up is and not by his talk. " - Carl Gustav Jung

This pretty much sums it up. Well when you take into account the obvious sarcasm it does.
Post edited March 04, 2010 by Navagon
Ok guys, so oh well I was wrong on my broad blanket statement on satanists, so what? Back to subject anyone can do something nuts for any reason, is it a crime to not care for devil worshipers? hate to sound insensitive to a certain religion but I think they're as nuts as the guys who say games cause this kind of behavior.
"Devil worshipers" are no more nuts than any other person who believes in an imaginary all-powerful being, so I fail to see your point.
Ditto Darkphoenix.
Meta-analysis is always a red flag. It's basically worthless from a scientific standpoint unless it's just a lit review and labelled as such. At least Grossman, et al have the decency to do research (even though I see it as gravely flawed from a methodological standpoint re:control).
When reading research, the other big buzzword to watch out for that generally indicates nonsense is "Qualitative Research". I've seen it crop up a lot lately. Basically this means coming to whatever conclusion you want, then supporting it with cherrypicked quotations from dead philosophers that have nothing to do with your field and hoping no one calls you on it.
Oh and FYI to everyone arguing about it - LaVeyan Satanists are Rational Egoists. They're all Atheists. LaVey's whole Church of Satan schtick is almost completely inspired by Ayn Rand and the Marquis De Sade (Justine, etc) with a smattering of Crowleyan Thelemism (which is itself cribbed from Rabelais) and bad organ music. Basically the philosophy is, "Do what the hell you want, that's the right thing to do. Also, the world sucks." It's quite juvenile, really.
I find most people recover nicely after selling their Slayer albums (or I think it's Therion now right?) some time shortly after their 18th birthday. I think it's more of a stage some teens go through than a religion. They have nice t-shirts and you have to give Mr. Lavey credit for an exquisitely well-trimmed goatee. Not much else is particularly notable about him or his group, though. Eventually, most sensible young people come to realize this.
cogadh: Are you daft? Mainstream religions have much better social networks. That's why they're better. One's as stupid as the next so you may as well outwardly profess one of the biggies with all the good holidays and fringe benefits. It's not in your best interest not to. No atheists when it comes to passing out business cards....
Also having met several Satanists, I can safely say that past the teenage years (when it's just rebellion) or guys in heavy metal bands (who do it for show), they are all absolutely nuts. Pretty much no social conscience. Not PC, but it's true. They're wackjobs. Some of them who read too much Crowley honestly think they have superpowers.
Post edited March 04, 2010 by cioran
Wow.. There's some very broad brushwork going on here.
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tb87670:
: So what? You made a broad blanket statement obviously not knowing that there's a difference between devil worship and the Church of Satan (it is an unfortunate choice of names, but given LaVey's intent on rubbing it in, I guess it's to be expected). What's so nuts about living your life the way you want to, especially when LaVey makes a big deal about accountability. You make your choices, if they blow up in your face, you deal with them and suffer the consequence - because in the end it was you who made the choice, it wasn't preordained by some higher power. And no, it isn't a crime to not care for "devil worshippers", but it's small minded to round Atheistic and Theistic principles into the one thing.
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cioran:
: The philosophy doesn't go as far as stating that "the world sucks". Yes, it is about egoism, and doing what feels right to you. But the overall point is to live your life as you see fit, take into consideration those you will, and try not to be hampered down by anyone telling you how to live your own life. Expecting people to live by inflexible boundaries just isn't logical, what works for one person doesn't always work for the next.
The concept of religion, no matter what it is, defies sensibility. Even Atheisism. There is still a belief that what we see is what is real, there is no god, but can we prove it? No, Atheists can't prove that there isn't a higher power, just as much as whatever religion can't prove that there is.
The Satanists you've met, have you considered that they might be wackjobs no matter what religion or philosophy they follow? And if they read Crowley, well.. Satanism and Thelema don't really go hand in hand, there is a certain belief of deities in Thelema, so all in all it's somewhat odd that an Atheist would put so much stock in Crowley's writings.
But hey, when you take the Atheistic approach, people killing for "god and country", blowing themselves up with the belief that they will attain eternal bliss for smiting the enemy, denying what it is to be human to reach the pearly gates and so on. I kind of consider that nuts. Fundamentally, humans are wackjobs, no matter what. =P
Animals with abstract thoughts, fighting an inner struggle between animalistic instinct and a self-appointed sense of divinity.
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Arctodus: That cab driver would be alive if it was not for GTA4. The punk was playing the game in an arcade, ran out of money, went out and murdered the cabbie.

That is the lamest excuse I've heard for any reason for someone to have killed someone, other than 'Voices told me to do it.'
Video games don't kill, the choices we make do. Also, bad parenting. Your turn kind sir.