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Magmarock: there seems to be some sort of taboo on criticizing Steam.
ROFL, what on earth gave you that impression? There are times when it seems to be all people do here.

And my 2 cents: Consumer choice is very rarely a bad thing, the more options and free market competition there is, the better off we will all be.
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Fred_DM: if they didn't feel like selling games at different prices in different regions, gamers in poorer (poorer as in lower average income) wouldn't be able to afford games (legally).

think for 2.5 seconds. it's low enough to try and abuse regional pricing at the cost of somebody else's poverty. it's even worse to complain about it afterwards.
Nice idea, but regional pricing doesn't seem to make things cheaper for poor countries. Origin tries to charge me more than it does for US customers, and Steam charges me whatever the highest regional rate that they have is for any given game.
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MonstaMunch: Nice idea, but regional pricing doesn't seem to make things cheaper for poor countries. Origin tries to charge me more than it does for US customers, and Steam charges me whatever the highest regional rate that they have is for any given game.
For Steam Ukraine/Russia have generally far lower prices than US/EU, Like -40 to -60% if you convert it to US/EU currency. But yeah it's mostly those regions that benefit.
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SimonG: That's very YMMV. GOGs support for interstate '76 isn't really "stellar". They are the best in the market with accounting problems, no doubt about that.
Yes, Interstate and Gorky 17 are a problem, but overall GOG always does it's best to fix their games (like Dungeon Keeper 2). Steam doesn't. Fallout 1 and 2 from Steam are known to be terrible. It does not work on modern PCs out of the box like GOG's version. And they don't even bother fixing it.

And from my personal experience, GOG's support has proven to be better. Everytime i used Steam's support it always took days to get an answer. The only time that i used GOG's support i got my problem fixed within 1 hour.
Post edited August 28, 2012 by Neobr10
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Bloodygoodgames: Of course it's Steam's fault.

GOG doesn't have regional pricing. Why? Because it's in the promise that they give to their customers. So, if a developer wants to sell here but insists on regional pricing, guess what? Sorry GOG doesn't want them.

Steam being the largest distributor on the internet has far more power than GOG does, and if they told developers it was one price for all or sell somewhere else, 90 percent of developers would go for it as they know Steam is the main source for their sales.
I can't believe you are so naive. Do you really think publishers would accept whatever bullshit Steam tries to force down their throats? They wouldn't. If Steam starts restricting publishers, they will just sell their game on another digital distributor. There are millions of DD sites, and even publishers started making their own services so they don't have to share the profits with anyone else (Origin, uPLay, Squenix FFVII). This is exactly what EA did with Crysis 2. Valve and EA didn't come to an agreement about DLC policy and then Crysis 2 was removed from Steam.

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Bloodygoodgames: I just don't understand this fanboy fanaticism when it comes to Steam. They're nothing more than a mega corporation that's creaming as much money out of their customers as possible by allowing things like regional pricing (you don't think Steam benefits from the higher pricing? Of course they do), yet millions of fools not only support them but spend millions of dollars there.
Because you are the smartest person in the fucking world. So everyone who buys from a digital store that YOU don't like is a fool, right? Oh yeah, right.

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Bloodygoodgames: It's the same thing with any mega corporation that is ripping off their customers yet idiots do the "rah rah (insert company name here) dance" because they think the company is acting in their best interests.
Steam is ripping off who? They offer a digital store and sell games like anyone else in the fucking market. The difference is that they often have the best prices and the best features (auto-update, community features, easy-to-use, no need for installers). Steam is great as a service.

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Bloodygoodgames: The ONLY best interest Steam ever acts in is it's own. And you'd have to be a prize fool to think otherwise.
Oh boy, i'm sorry to bust your bubble, but the best interest GOG ever acts is it's own too. Just like every other company in the world. Companies are created to make profits.
Post edited August 28, 2012 by Neobr10
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Bloodygoodgames: Let's face it, GOG appeals to a niche market (DRM-free and old games), Steam is a behemont, they can't afford to make such policies at the risk of losing publisher's support.

Of course Steam can!

Some publishers have said 75 percent of their game sales are now on Steam. For some, who insist on Steam-only, it's 100 percent.

You honestly think those publishers are going to give up Steam if Steam says "no more regional pricing"?

Steam is the one mainly at fault here, as they could refuse to do it. They don't. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. That's Steam and that's also GamersGate, who have also been weenie when it comes to standing up to publishers (look at how many Steam-only games that site now carries!)
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Pheace: This seems naive at best to me. Sure, there's some little guys that Steam could force-arm into having equal prices across different regions but the big boys wouldn't play ball, and more importantly, they don't have to. There's other DD portals, and if those don't feel good enough then it'll just push them to build stuff of their own, like is already happening to some extent (Ubistore, Origin).

Fact is, despite Steam's structuring, developers/publishers themselves are perfectly allowed to set regional prices and better, equalize them between regions. This is showcased by Stardock games being roughly equal across regions (EU/US at least), which is a company that is known for having said they believed in equal pricing. And they posted their games in the last year or so.

Steam is not a monopoly, it managed to get this big by giving publishers/developers more and more options, not by taking them away. That publishers/developers use those options to put unfair pricing between regions is at the very least equally the publishers/developers fault, if not a lot more.
Pretty much so, yeah. I think a lot of people tend to forget that the vast majority of Steam users are there for the games, not for Steam itself. If publishers decide to migrate to some other platform - which is inevitable eventually, whether this be a better or worse proposition for gamers - the gamers will go where the games are. Those with the "no Steam, no sale" attitude are a distinct minority.

After all, people started using and buying from Origin and this partly came about because of the EA/Valve dispute (partly too because no matter how big the share of the pie is, EA always wants more). If Valve starts rubbing other publishers up the wrong way, they too will eventually move to their own or other platforms, and the gamers will follow them.

And as much as I can't stand Steam, I'd find such heavy fragmentation of the market to be even worse.
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Bloodygoodgames: You honestly think those publishers are going to give up Steam if Steam says "no more regional pricing"?
EA did. They removed Crysis 2 and Dragon's Age 2 from Steam thanks to the lack of an agreement on DLC policies. Battlefield 3, ME3 and Syndicate are not on Steam (for another reasons, though). Maybe smaller publishers wouldn't, but the bigger ones might give up on it if it gets too restrictive. In the end, guess who loses? Steam does.
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Fred_DM: if they didn't feel like selling games at different prices in different regions, gamers in poorer (poorer as in lower average income) wouldn't be able to afford games (legally).

think for 2.5 seconds. it's low enough to try and abuse regional pricing at the cost of somebody else's poverty. it's even worse to complain about it afterwards.
Stop bringing common sense into this discussion. Valve is evil, period.
Post edited August 28, 2012 by Neobr10
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Jernfuglen: I don't hate steam, but you can't say I was happy when I found out that my copy of Skyrim, that I bought in Russia, didn't work when I tried it in Denmark. And this is caused by their region pricing. If they didn't feel like selling the games at different prices in different regions, it wouldn't be necesary to control where they can be played.
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Fred_DM: if they didn't feel like selling games at different prices in different regions, gamers in poorer (poorer as in lower average income) wouldn't be able to afford games (legally).

think for 2.5 seconds. it's low enough to try and abuse regional pricing at the cost of somebody else's poverty. it's even worse to complain about it afterwards.
That's actually not true. Here in eastern Europe, most games (both DD and retail) usually cost more than in - say - the US, which can be frustrating...
low rated
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Bloodygoodgames: Of course it's Steam's fault.

GOG doesn't have regional pricing. Why? Because it's in the promise that they give to their customers. So, if a developer wants to sell here but insists on regional pricing, guess what? Sorry GOG doesn't want them.

Steam being the largest distributor on the internet has far more power than GOG does, and if they told developers it was one price for all or sell somewhere else, 90 percent of developers would go for it as they know Steam is the main source for their sales.
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Neobr10: I can't believe you are so naive. Do you really think publishers would accept whatever bullshit Steam tries to force down their throats? They wouldn't. If Steam starts restricting publishers, they will just sell their game on another digital distributor. There are millions of DD sites, and even publishers started making their services own so they don't have to share the profits with anyone else (Origin, uPLay, Squenix FFVII). This is exactly what EA did with Crysis 2. Valve and EA didn't come to an agreement about DLC policy and then Crysis 2 was removed from Steam.

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Bloodygoodgames: I just don't understand this fanboy fanaticism when it comes to Steam. They're nothing more than a mega corporation that's creaming as much money out of their customers as possible by allowing things like regional pricing (you don't think Steam benefits from the higher pricing? Of course they do), yet millions of fools not only support them but spend millions of dollars there.
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Neobr10: Because you are the smartest person in the fucking world. So everyone who buys from a digital store that YOU don't like is a fool, right? Oh yeah, right.

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Bloodygoodgames: It's the same thing with any mega corporation that is ripping off their customers yet idiots do the "rah rah (insert company name here) dance" because they think the company is acting in their best interests.
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Neobr10: Steam is ripping off who? They offer a digital store and sell games like anyone else in the fucking market. The difference is that they often have the best prices and the best features (auto-update, community features, easy-to-use, no need for installers). Steam is great as a service.

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Bloodygoodgames: The ONLY best interest Steam ever acts in is it's own. And you'd have to be a prize fool to think otherwise.
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Neobr10: Oh boy, i'm sorry to bust your bubble, but the best interest GOG ever acts is it's own too. Just like every other company in the world. Companies are created to make profits.
And here come the Steam Fanboys and the Lovers of the Mega Corporation :)

It never ends does it?

No matter what Steam does it does it because it "has to".

Really? You live your life believing this kind of crap? Hilarious.

But, hey, I'll be the first one laughing when you get shat on by Steam. And yes, you will.
Steam support really sucks. I had a problem with "Sleeping Dogs", so I've sent a ticket to support. It took them 6 days to answer and their answer couldn't be more generic:

"Please check to make sure your game files are installed correctly.

Right-click on the game in your Library list and go to Properties > Local Files > Verify Integrity of Game Cache.

After Steam verifies the game cache, try running the game again."

They have probably the worst support that I ever seen.


I don't hate Steam that much as some of guys here, but it's bad that Steam have such a strong position.
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Bloodygoodgames: And here come the Steam Fanboys and the Lovers of the Mega Corporation :)

It never ends does it?

No matter what Steam does it does it because it "has to".

Really? You live your life believing this kind of crap? Hilarious.
LOL, i really have to stop taking your posts seriously.

Fanboy? LOL. Oh yes, definetely i'm a fanboy for stating the obvious. And yes please, start name calling, it's the best argument you can come up with. Now, call me a troll, please. Oh, and an asshole too. Thanks. Hope that makes you feel better.

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Bloodygoodgames: But, hey, I'll be the first one laughing when you get shat on by Steam. And yes, you will.
Jesus, you need a psychologist FAST.
Post edited August 28, 2012 by Neobr10
And in other words...

Thank you Steam for gifting me the singleplayer part of Dark Messiah few months ago, even though I only used a promo key for the multiplayer part a long time ago.

:p
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Aver: Steam support really sucks. I had a problem with "Sleeping Dogs", so I've sent a ticket to support. It took them 6 days to answer and their answer couldn't be more generic:

"Please check to make sure your game files are installed correctly.

Right-click on the game in your Library list and go to Properties > Local Files > Verify Integrity of Game Cache.

After Steam verifies the game cache, try running the game again."

They have probably the worst support that I ever seen.


I don't hate Steam that much as some of guys here, but it's bad that Steam have such a strong position.
Well for a start you have to think of how many support tickets they get in a day. Thats alot of people who could have potential problems with games or their account. Even then Sleeping dogs have barely been out a week, it's going to be buggy. What was the problem?
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Neobr10: Let's face it, GOG appeals to a niche market (DRM-free and old games)
That non-defective (a.k.a. 'DRM-free') games are considered "a niche market" speaks volumes about the state of the industry and consumer protection laws.
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ydobemos: That non-defective (a.k.a. 'DRM-free') games are considered "a niche market" speaks volumes about the state of the industry and consumer protection laws.
I like this post. :)