He is German... (The old school kind, before the Amerikans softened us up with Coca Kola and Rock und Roll).

To play the other side now, I think the point is there was no big publisher or AAA games planned at the time, so he could say that easily. Things have changed.

I would also guess SimonG would say that when selling modern AAA games it is PREFERABLE to sell them as Steam keys, rather than pure downloads. That is what most consumers want. That is the best way to play those games. By removing online features and client functionality they would be harming the games.

He was briefly alluded to.
I can agree with that.

I just ignore the other guy until he learns using the forum. But maybe that is to grey for him. (Post or nor post. Replying is moderation).

If you are correct about that, then Jeff Rosen is just spineless. But sorry offering optional DRM free versions could never hurt gamers in any way, shape or form. Nobody is against this bundle offering Steam keys, it is the abscence of a DRM free alternative and the fact that they aren't cross-platform which is the problem. Even that wouldn't be a problem if this was THQ acting alone or partnering with Valve.

There is a difference.

And often times, the multiplayer server is meant primarily to protect digital rights. Not to provide a service. The best for both worlds are when there is both a service and a rights protection (such as Steam -- I actually like Steam. But it does have a DRM component). In that way, you get give and take.

The worst is when there is no service. You connect to a server for authentication and then you find friends and play with them (Ubisoft's Driver San Francisco is a good example). The server does nothing. I could direct connect if I didn't have to connect to a server.

Nonetheless, if there is online authentication involved, then it's DRM. Probably not intrusive DRM. And it's DRM in a more suitable location (since you have to connect to a server anyway), but it's DRM.

The worst is when DRM can be a hassle. Someone for a few months was playing with my CD key on Neverwinter Nights. I kept getting booted or unable to log in. I've had my WoW account hacked -- and I have few friends who haven't had theirs hacked. Some things can be avoided, some things not.

Some can be avoided. Like CD keys for Neverwinter nights. Some things cannot be avoided -- like WoW's server. Your whole goal is to connect to a big server and have access to your characters, so you need some authentication. Even so, the authentication is still protecting their digital rights by keeping unauthorized people from using their server.

It's not necessarily bad. But it's also digital rights management.

Agree or not, that'll be my last post on the subject. I've probably written a book about it on these forums. Many people disagree on the true definition of the DRM. I don't see any variance in dictionaries, but I understand the recognition of a more narrowly defined definition. If you want DRM to be something that must be hated and removed, then you'd want to talk about obtrusive DRM. Not CD-keys or server authentication for multiplayer games, but server authentication for single-player games and rootkit installations and CD-ROM-Breaking software and undetectable sly software slipped under your nose. I'm cool with simple, unobtrusive DRM. I despise game-breaking (or fun-killing) DRM schemes.

Either definition more or less lends itself to indicating Steam as a DRM type. I'm glad Humble Bundle is offering a wider range of products. Tons of people like Steam. And tons of people hate it. So it keeps the average down. :)

Wait a minute, how is it a problem exactly? THQ is distributing games. Humble store is selling games. Humble store is selling THQ games. I don't remember anyone claiming that humble store is only going to sell DRM-free, multiplatform titles, ever. That's just what people assume, and you know what they say about assuming.

Darksiders is the only one where removing Steam would have been super easy and not at all detrimental to the game. The rest have some kind of online functionality, leaderboards or multiplayer, and may still be updated or whatever else. Also achievements. Also messing with multiplayer keys for CoH is not something the bundle guys want I expect.

You cannot deny that Steam keys are ten times easier, what most consumers want and (obviously) have not impacted the success of the bundle.

So in the end you want your DRM principles to outweigh all these factors without it benefiting the bundle guys at all. It's a steep request, even though I recognize and agree that it's a shame a DRM free website switched gears this way.

See this: http://i47.tinypic.com/2rohnib.png

There is also the fact that all the other bundles have been that way, creating an expectation. The Humble Bundle have brought several games to Linux that were not available prior to them being in a debut. Other than cases were the developers themselves are passionate about that sort of thing, that will now cease.

Edit:

StingingVelvet, I agree them signifcantly hurting DRM free and cross-platform gaming is a "shame" to put it mildly.

Given how the thread is progressing, it's only a matter of time.

First they came for the cross platform games, and I didn't speak out because I used Windows.

Then they came for the DRM Free games, and I didn't speak out because I used Steam.

Which will Hitler Indie Bundle come for next? Pay what you want, or the charities?

(No this is not a serious post.)

Someone said something 2 years ago, let's jump on that!
a) no one said Humble store is Steam exclusive. Just this particular bundle is.
b) THQ offers to grant it's games to a humble bundle, making a huge opportunity to raise a ton of money to charities - because a LOT of people have and will buy this particular one. Seriously, if you don't like it, don't buy it - only good can come out of this bundle. And just ... No, DRM-free and multi-platform is not a reason enough to deny such a ludicrous ammount of money that can and will be sent towards those charities, I mean seriously ... Priorities!

" Someone said something 2 years ago, let's jump on that! "

Holding people to their word, how horrible of me!!

"No, DRM-free and multi-platform is not a reason enough to deny such a ludicrous ammount of money that can and will be sent towards those charities, I mean seriously ... Priorities!"

Does this mean you don't care about all the horrible effects this will have on DRM free gaming and muti-platform gaming? Because both you and I and everyone else is completely free to donate to those charties as is, we don't need a Humble Bundle for that. But if that is the case we are just going to have to disagree.

Geez...why can't you just enjoy the games and if you don't like DRMs just don't buy them. Where's the problem? Humble Bundle has developed, introduced some other variants of Humble <publisher and or other medium here> Bundle.

The INDIE bundle will most likely remain DRM-free and multi-platform as much as it is possible for them.

Just don't mistake principles of companies with something else. Unfortunately, having DRM or not is not only a matter of principle, but a business decision.

It makes me often wonder how some really irrelevant decisions seem to the gaming community like a betrayal and end of the world.

If you hold that you never said anything in your life that changed over time, you're the liar and hypocrite of the year.