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General discussion (archive)GOG Mafia #24: The Not Ending Soon War(2262 posts)(2262 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 27, 2014
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trentonlf: Again, how is this an obvious mistake?
Maybe not a mistake, but I am fairly certain flub said something about a wife, at least in this game, and fairly soon in Day 1.
Posted October 27, 2014
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HijacK: Maybe not a mistake, but I am fairly certain flub said something about a wife, at least in this game, and fairly soon in Day 1.
He did, he actually voted for her :D

But I have to say I hear where trentonlf is coming from on this specific matter. Last game flub's cheerleader role-play actually led me to believe for a while that mrkgnao is female :)
Posted October 27, 2014
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HijacK: Maybe not a mistake, but I am fairly certain flub said something about a wife, at least in this game, and fairly soon in Day 1.
He did mention a wife, but in todays world that does not mean man and woman. Flub made quite a few comments in that game that lead me to belive he was a woman. Guess he played his role too well LOL
Posted October 27, 2014
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trentonlf: Again, how is this an obvious mistake?
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HijacK: Maybe not a mistake, but I am fairly certain flub said something about a wife, at least in this game, and fairly soon in Day 1.
I you get accepted to Berkeley and move to California, you might want to avoid jumping to the conclusion that just because one has a wife, one is male. If I'm not mistaken there are already 32 states where you might want to avoid this conclusion.
Posted October 27, 2014
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HijacK: Maybe not a mistake, but I am fairly certain flub said something about a wife, at least in this game, and fairly soon in Day 1.
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mrkgnao: I you get accepted to Berkeley and move to California, you might want to avoid jumping to the conclusion that just because one has a wife, one is male. If I'm not mistaken there are already 32 states where you might want to avoid this conclusion.
Especially ours! Welcome to Cali, HijacK! If you make it down to the southern part of the state, you have a place to crash. Even if you're scum. ;)
Posted October 27, 2014
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mrkgnao: I you get accepted to Berkeley and move to California, you might want to avoid jumping to the conclusion that just because one has a wife, one is male. If I'm not mistaken there are already 32 states where you might want to avoid this conclusion.
You made Scalia sad. :D

Very interesting posts today, I'll finish my thoughts post tonight. I do agree with a lot of the points made by yogsloth, but I interpret some observations about a couple of people differently.
Posted October 27, 2014
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mrkgnao: I you get accepted to Berkeley and move to California, you might want to avoid jumping to the conclusion that just because one has a wife, one is male. If I'm not mistaken there are already 32 states where you might want to avoid this conclusion.
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DarkoD13: You made Scalia sad. :D

Very interesting posts today, I'll finish my thoughts post tonight. I do agree with a lot of the points made by yogsloth, but I interpret some observations about a couple of people differently.
Well, I will not hold it against anyone that Scalia was born in Trenton, NJ.
Posted October 27, 2014
Lots of little loose ends to wrap up from my large post last night. Just wanted to respond to HijacK first:

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HijacK: While I get that you weren't obvious in your accusation, did you really think I'm stupid not to notice? I read carefully, and thoroughly. That's why I was able to catch adalia.
Except that you didn't. You posted that you firmly believed he was town. Remember that bit? You “believed” he was town, and didn’t vote for him.

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HijacK: Yeah, you're entirely wrong about the whole thing as far as my "implication" with adalia is concerned. If I was scum, I'd play it smarter than bussing one of my team on Day 1 when nothing is concrete. Wasn't that obvious? Or are you trying to call me stupid?
No, not at all. If anything I'm annoyed you're the only guy to catch certain things. Scum bussing each other on Day 1 isn't inherently smart or stupid... it's a strategic play. Risky, perhaps, but not stupid by itself. In fact, didn't you say something exactly to this effect previously in game #23 or the aftermath, about allowing yourself to be bussed if you were scum so your scum buddies could get their names on your wagon? Somebody help me out and find that post. Why was that legitimate strategy earlier, but now when you’re accused of doing it, it’s “stupid”?


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HijacK: While I acknowledge trent's playstyle is entirely different from games #22 and #23, using something of a mystique like tone in his posts, something that he has never done before, that doesn't mean I'll jump on him. He made questionable decisions with his words, but guess what? As far as I'm concerned, almost everyone who's here alive in Day 2 has done a questionable thing, or more. Should I jump on everyone I think did a questionable thing?
Yes. Yes you should.

Really.

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HijacK: Let me teach you a mathematical algorithm I learned in mathematics and history. It's call Divide and Conquer. I'll monitor everyone's words and interactions with other people, and when someone has said something that I deem too scumy, that's when I'll strike. Not sooner, not later. Divide and Conquer. As simple as that.
OK then. I’ll wait patiently.
Posted October 27, 2014
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yogsloth: In fact, didn't you say something exactly to this effect previously in game #23 or the aftermath, about allowing yourself to be bussed if you were scum so your scum buddies could get their names on your wagon? Somebody help me out and find that post.
It wasn't in game #23, it was in game #24, but I can't really blame you for thinking it was ages ago.

It's in posts #207 + #215. I already pointed it out in my post #711.
Posted October 27, 2014
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mrkgnao: It wasn't in game #23, it was in game #24, but I can't really blame you for thinking it was ages ago.

It's in posts #207 + #215. I already pointed it out in my post #711.
Well, no wonder I couldn't find it, lol. So yes, Hijack, let's take a look at this:

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HijacK: There are many ways to play as scum and given the chance to be one I would've played the exact same way in such a manner to get lynched but have the other scum on my vote wagon to gain them credibility. Wouldn't those that haven't voted for me stand out, in spite of being town? Then it's all easy. Eradicate at night town that were on y vote wagon, and attempt to put the blame on those that look fishy. Fairly mediocre plan, but I am sure it would work here.
Contrasted to this:

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HijacK: Yeah, you're entirely wrong about the whole thing as far as my "implication" with adalia is concerned. If I was scum, I'd play it smarter than bussing one of my team on Day 1 when nothing is concrete. Wasn't that obvious? Or are you trying to call me stupid?
Note the bolded parts.

I feel like it's getting warmer in here.
Posted October 27, 2014
I also want to offer a quick apology to trent. After re-reading last night's post (which I was rushing by the time I got to his part at the end), it reads less "funny sarcasm" which I intended, and more "geez, what an a-hole".

Credit back to trent as well for picking up on the Kryspn vs. Sage style posts. Thanks mrkgnao for pointing that out.

My base points still stand, but I did a relatively poor job of constructing coherent argument.
Posted October 27, 2014
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yogsloth: Leaning scum

This will be a tough one, so in ascending order of filthiness:

Sage – Her play style has always been one of the indecisive and overly-cautious wallflower. Game one, let’s give her a pass. Game two, it was grating on me so much I was convinced she was scum until the last day. Game three… I can’t take it much more. Although her contributions this weekend have softened my stance somewhat, I see her total contributions to the first 1½ days thus far largely being “Hi all, not much, shower, not much, don’t know, bath, think about it later, shower, good points, will post more, kthanksbai”. And around and around as to what’s not happening. Posting huge walls of copied textwith no comments? That’s both ridiculous and prima facie obfuscatory. Then when I tell her to stop, she drops it and runs away. No defending her actions – just a total retreat and never mentions it again. Game three and this skittish? It just feels like scum running for her life, not sure what to do next to avoid detection. (Do I lurk? Do I post? What do I post that says nothing and reveals nothing?) As I say, her posts just today are ten times better than what I’ve seen all game, so perhaps her confidence is finally increasing. Sorry Sage, I’m just not going to trust you until you get more aggressive. Do I have enough to start a wagon? It’s little more than a gut feeling, so no, not at all. I’m just keeping a very close eye on this one.
Not to keen on words being put into my mouth to make it look like im a 12 year old girl but whatever. Seems I was not the only one posting about RL. I guess since I dont have a wife and kids my trying to let others know Im still here and reading doesn't count. Ill keep that in mind.
For my post on books quotes from day one. I thought it would be good to have them all in one place. You jumped right on it with a stop. No one else said it would be a good thing either so I stopped. Simple as that. Because I did not get my thongs in a bunch and try to fight over it there must be something off me with.. Little far fetched and contradicting. I am trying to find the scum not help them so I have no problem listen to others when it is needed.
As for lurking you might want to look at some other people as well. As I have not had the chance to post as much as I have wanted I try to always keep up on reading. I am not one to say I have not read this or that ill do it later. I will state I will post my thoughts in a bit when I have more time to gather them and put them into a post.

You seem to be calling me out about my staying on the side lines for a while and just recently I have been posting better.... scum tend to sink and town tend to get their footing as scum post more and more nonsense.
Posted October 27, 2014
@trent:

Sorry, it’s also overdue I carefully respond to your post, so you don’t feel so ignored. : ) I’m not going to multi-quote here, but will refer to post #s. This is in response to your post 809, and I will address each point.

1) How could you get back on the wagon? Let’s revisit post #491. You jump off the wagon, looking for more info from adalia. Fair enough. Shortly after, he role-claims. Discussion ensues. Post 513 I give my decision matrix on why I think the lynch should proceed. Immediately afterward, post 514, you say “Excellent post, thank you for that”. Dedo unvotes to also think things through. Vitek unvotes. More discussion. Post 531, you say that you think one of myself or adalia are scum, but you’re not sure which. Dedo re-votes. More discussion. Several players chime in in favor of a lynch. You are right there the whole time, adalia needs one more to hammer, nearly everyone is on the record… you have every chance to re-vote, but never take it, because apparently your opinion is wholly subservient to every single other person in the game going first. That makes no sense to me. Multiple posters already on the wagon re-confirm why they’re there… but not you, who seem to try and drag things out as long as possible.

2) It’s bogus you making the “no role” claim at 11:59 of the first day. Why throw that kind of spanner into the works moments before nightfall? You just get everyone wondering what the heck you were doing, with no chance to question you for several real-life days. And sorry, I don’t think anybody caught you were role-claiming earlier in the day. For ship models, you shouldn’t be muddying the waters at all. Neither should CSPVG for sure – but throwing your two cents in didn’t help anybody. It was more distraction.

3) You want me to point it out? OK. Post 601 you are already on the defensive about your reveal, having been advised that some (like me) find it distractionary. But, fine, you keep going on about it. Post 610, 632, you’re talking about it, and then conversation on that topic largely dies. Then post 687 you’re back at it. And 708. And the topic dies again. And there you are in 777, bringing it up again, to counter Sage… who was trying to tell you to stop talking about it! I assume this is what you mean by “explaining it for the umpteenth time”. Well, it’s just a little too much for me. Is this point by itself enough to start shouting “SCUM!” No, it isn’t. It’s a cumulative effect of discomfort that connects to all the other points.

4) I forgot to add post 735, where you claim you don’t know why posts shouldn’t be edited. Give me a break with this – really? You really don’t know, three games in? Of course you do. So why pretend you don’t? More fluff and distraction.

5) Your post in question was just too wishy-washy and indecisive. Time to firm up.

6) Possibly. Do you see why I’m not the only one to be uncomfortable with your overall play direction in this game, however?

OK, I shut up for a while now. Too much yog in one day. Robb notes there's a lot more yappin', and not much votin', and he's right. Maybe I am just too much of a wuss, but I want to hear some more firm suspicions before trying to drive a wagon myself.
Posted October 27, 2014
OK, so here are my thoughts on people so far:

HijacK
Mixed feelings here. On the one hand, he has employed a different playstyle this time and seems to have a more limited presence Today. He was also the one person adalia didn't hesitate at all to fight with, whatever that means. However, he played a pretty big part in establishing adalia's scumminess and for that alone I am more inclined to believe he's town.
Vitek
I still find the way adalia dropped him from his scumlist really weird. But from what I've seen, he hasn't done anything scummy himself. He is his usual self, with all the good and the bad. In fact, the recent famous "Vitek Grip of Death" that seemed to be forming between him and dedo kind of made them both a bit more town in my eyes, mostly based on forum game history.
Trentonlf
I'm getting the sense that some of the things he's said are getting blown out of proportion. He has made a few weird posts and some posts that probably had bad timing, in lack of a better word. I didn't follow the whole highschool game, but from what I can remember he seems a bit less lively this time around. But I still believe that a Day 1 claim would have been too risky a move for a scum, especailly when they had no knowledge of whether there was a correlation between ship marks and mafia and I believe him to be town based on the fact that flub's flip supports his claim. I also don't believe that the way he abandoned the wagon is a valid argument against him. His declared reason behind it was to have everyone's opinion before the lynch. It allowed for some more conversation, and I don't believe hearing more opinions at that point was helpful to mafia. He didn't try to deter people from voting, when we could have followed others in expressing doubts about adalia's alignment.
Robbeasy
His last post before adalia's lych ("blimey") raised a flew flags, but given the flip and the fact he was one of the first people to lock on to adalia put him safely in the town side for now. I can't imagine that he would sacrifice a fellow scum so easily. We are not talking about a megamafia team like the one we had in the "End of the World" game, where such methods could be successfully employed.
Yogsloth
His very first serious post in the game (concerning the nature of the game) was scummy as hell. But it's exactly because of that post and adalia's reaction to it that I believe he's town. If I were adalia's place, I too would have probably latched on to yogsloth and tried to convince others that he's mafia. He was a great target and maybe if adalia had been more subtle, we would have had a mislynch.
A little snarky at times, but his posts have been consistent and helpful to town.
Mrkgnao
Not much to say here. Probably the most "townish" person based on his posts so far.
Sage103082
If I had written this 3 days ago, this would read "meh, dunno". Quite inactive so far, but this post
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_24_the_not_ending_soon_war/post776
got me raising both eybrows. It seemed like it was a step backwards in the discussion and, at the same time, like it was trying to stir things up. Of course, it could be just her catching up. Then there was her reads list that seemed fairly empty assessment-wise. It took some nudging for her to post her thoughts more analytically and it is indeed the most interesting post (798) I have seen from her so far. So yeah, more participation would be awesome. Cautiously suspicious of her at the moment based on that 776 post post which felt off to me.
I tried to bait her (not subtly) into adding some confusion to our perception of flub, but she didn't bite and her response made sense.
Krypsyn
Makes me sad. Yogsloth has pretty much covered why. Strongly against a lynch though. He's too experienced to be lurking as a legitimate scum strategy. I hope.
CSPVG
Kind of like Krypsyn, but with hinting and more layers of scumminess. Seems to be trying to say something about Robbeasy, but I don't understand his case against him. Waiting for the promised thoughts.
Dedoporno
One of the people I suspected on Day 1 and still do to a lesser extent. The no-lynch thing and posts like this one
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_24_the_not_ending_soon_war/post393
made me cautious of him. I perceived it as a reluctant, polite nudge to a certain direction, like he was paving the road for adalia's lynch and flip. But adalia flipped scum, so I put a pin on that. Then there are these posts
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_24_the_not_ending_soon_war/post639
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_24_the_not_ending_soon_war/post642
that I find absurd for reasons I've explained. Also, there's his post where he unvotes adalia "Damn. I was so sure he had to go, because it's the safest option, but could we actually have a beneficial angle here? ", which I could actually buy as a scum trying a "Hail Mary" to save a fellow scum. Seeing that that wasn't working, he was eager to vote adalia again, even if we didn't have everyone's opinion yet. Arguably, my reasoning on this is based a lot on how I would play if I was scum. I wouldn't be happy about bussing a teammate, but I would desperately want my name to be on the bandwagon.


So yeah, if you read all that, you can probably see why I'm confused. Even the people I suspected at the beginning of the Day seem generally more townish now. But if I had to name my suspects now, they would be Dedo and Sage.

Obligatory list of shame: Krypsyn and CSPVG.
Posted October 27, 2014
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Krypsyn: "Posted 3 days ago"
Please do specify if you want a replacement.
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)GOG Mafia #24: The Not Ending Soon War(2262 posts)(2262 posts)
(2262 posts)