Vitek, you wanted notes, you got them.


At the beginning of the game there was the small episode with Vitek's 10 previous games where he seemed to exclude the current one while talking about consecutive games where he was Town.

To be honest I didn't pick up that comment but a number of people found it interesting and focused some attention on it. Some of them marked it as probable bait. Fair enough, why not?

One of the first people that tried to describe it not as a slip, but a clever prod was non other than adaliabooks. Could it be that he was going with the flow and tried to associate himself with all of the experienced players who were smart enough not to fall for it? Sure.

Could it be that he saw it as an actual slip up and after some experienced people made a question out of it adaliabooks decided to try and backup his buddy? Sure.

Is this enough to call Vitek scum? Nope.

At one point in the earlier stages of D1 adaliabooks listed yogsloth and Vitek as his top suspects. Yogsloth was pretty active and yapped a lot (his own words :)) and initially lots of people had him under suspicion. It's only natural the scum will try to use this to their advantage.

I doubt one mafioso's (damn, I love that word!) scum list will consist only of other scum, but at least one for good standing? Sure, why not. It's entirely possible that either yog or Vitek is scum. I'm not sold on both, but I keep an open mind about it.

A bit later yogsloth managed to change his appearance and gain a bit more trust among the players. I can't talk for others but currently he's one of the less scummy, more towny people as far as I'm concerned.

That would leave Vitek. Again, not enough to even consider his mafia alignment.

But some time afterwards, adaliabooks magically replaced Vitek with HijacK. Out of the blue. Why? Is this enough to start considering treachery? Oh, yeah.


When the adaliabooks wagon was forming and a few people were putting pressure on him VItek joined and shot a few questions of his own. Good questions, actually. Vitek pushed adaliabooks additionally but that was that. He didn't close the deal with a vote, didn't do anything about it in the end. Why?

Vitek even stated the following:


And he never proceed with the vote. Didn't do anything afterwards, really. Just let it go by. Why support the lynch if you see it as the right decision and not take part?

I was scolded for considering no lynch at the earlier stage of D1, but Vitek didn't vote at all. How is that different? Other people missed the chance to vote because of the hammer or chose not to vote. Vitek was there when things got serious. He had time. He chose not to take part as far as I'm concerned.

Some may wonder what the big deal is if the lynch will happen anyway. At that point adaliabooks' cunning do-or-die ruse had already planted a few seeds of doubt. Even my own resolve was shaken for a brief moment. If adalia played his cards a little bit better he could pull it off, but he didn't try hard enough.


Then we advance to D2.

We are discussing adaliabooks, flub's demise and trenotonlf's supposed night episode. Not too much finger pointing or accusations yet. Not that much pushing people around.

Then I share my own idea on why flub was the NK target. His scum list from D1 which featured

Vitek (I wasn't suspicious of him at the time when flub made the list)
trentonlf (trentonlf has been on my list from the early stages of D1 and still is, but Vitek managed to made himself far more interesting)
adaliabooks (flipped scum)
krypsyn (I wasn't suspicious of him at the time when flub made the list and I don't really have an opinion of him currently)
DarkoD13 (I never saw him as scum, I don't actually see him as one now)

Two things happened shortly after I shared my idea. It seems Darko's presence in the list worried him a bit, so he jumped on me about the list not being a relevant reason for a NK.
He dropped it as soon as I told him I don't have a beef with him at the moment.

Then Vitek joined. He belittled my theory by being a jerk. OK, D1 list is nothing solid but it was the list of an experienced player and he died on the very same night. Why not at least acknowledge the posibility?
Did I mentioned flub's original vote on D1 was Vitek before he changed it to adaliabooks when the wagon was gaining momentum?

Things got heated up in our dialogue and Vitek started to question some of my own actions, including dropping trentonlf's as a suspect all of a sudden. I haven't stopped questioning trentonlf from what is basically the end of the RVS up until his night episode, but yet Vitek implied I had and started pushing towards this. He also demanded to show him where I told I was suspecting him on D1 which I find odd on it's own. This is a game where things change (or not) in time, while new information emerges.

Anyway, if all this was happening in a closed environment, on it's own, I would have respected it and taken it for an actual scum-hunting push. But it's happening in this context and I don't really like it. I see it as a try to discredit me. What if flub's list isn't that far-fetched? If you were scum and you disposed of the person who was on to you, would you just leave the one who picks up after do whatever he wants without saying anything?

Darko also shared a couple of times he thinks Vitek is scum, but he got non of the action I did. I said I have similar suspicions and Vitek was all over me almost immediately. Why so hard on offense so suddenly?

All of this doesn't look like much on it's own, but when combined it starts to feel real nasty as far as I'm concerned.

My current list of people of interest consists of trentonlf and Vitek, but I believe to some extent that they are of opposing factions.

I would have went with trentonlf originally but Vitek's attack made me think harder and look at all the information with different perspective.

With all that said



vote Vitek

I forgot if you wrote inside the quote of someone it made it look like they said it. mrkgnao did not say this:

"After hearing Robb's explanation I feel it is truthful and more believable than him hinting something to adaliabooks. Robb's post are pro town and he has been actively hunting scum when he does post."

I did in response to what I felt about mrkgnao's thoughts of Robb trying to hint at his supposed scum buddy.

Really, that's how you interpret this?
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_24_the_not_ending_soon_war/post673
Why am I taking the time to write these things. :/

Since I have to outright say it, a discussion based on a dead vanilla's Day 1 reads is not only pointless to town, it's the kind of nice fat confusing WIFOM bonus to a successful NK that makes scum happy. I "dropped it" because
a) I thought my opinion was clear
b) I'm still trying to imagine whether I'd dare point to those reads and say "We may have multiple scum there!" while being a member of the mafia team


P.S. Sorry for the limited participation today, Warframe Update 15 hit me pretty hard.

I am sorry. I have been unclear. I consider claiming vanilla as a role claim.

I shall rephrase: "Primarily for revealing his being vanilla... and for as yet offering no convincing reason why he did it."

I have explained before (post #616) that I only see negative sides to claiming vanilla. I am copy-pasting it here for your convenience:

"Anyhow, post #586 is a vanilla claim. And I must say I don't like it.

1) If trentonlf is telling the truth, then I believe he made a mistake in claiming. All it does is slightly increase the chance of the scum night-killing a role-bearing townie.

2) If trentonlf is a townie but not really vanilla, LAL.

3) If trentonlf is scum, he is probably trying to fool townie vanillas into following his lead, thereby assisting the scum in differentiating vanilla from role-bearing. Please do not follow his example."

P.S. I do not understand your post #768. Who is it adressing and what does it attempt to say?

It is clear and as you see I am not trying to persuade you otherwise. I have based my vote on a large amount of situations and interactions.

My vote for Vitek is not omgus triggered by his bashing on what I said. I'm not clinging to flub's list as the basis of it, but it triggered a discussion that made me re-visit pretty much everything and look at it from another perspective.

P.P.S. OK, I understand what you meant by this now. I naturally did not read what I thought was you quoting my post in #767, so could not make sense of this post. I understand now.

Alright! I felt a bit light headed last night and went straight to sleep. Now I woke up an re-read some of the most recent posts. As far as adalia's posts go, I'll focus re-reading only those in which he interacted with other players. As far as I know I dissected most of his other posts.

Good. I know it's all a game and yada-yada, but 2 pairs of people here need to take it down a few notches. Mud fights tend to become incredibly boring to me fairly fast. Plus, they could potentially affect the efficiency of your investigations.

Now on to business.
Good, so not much to say right now. I still have a bunch of re-reading to do, but I have noted quite a few odd things so far. First of all it's diversity. Most of us have a different idea of who might surely be scum. Mrk has a conversation with Rob. Trent seems to suspect Kryps of something. Dedo and Vitek are flinging accusations and insults at each other. And I'm fairly certain yogsloth is after me and is accusing me of bussing adalia. Oh, and there is Sage and CSPVG (Center Spy Protectorate Vending Machine?) who so far appear to be more lenient towards those fights. As I said, lots of variety! This being said, unless a wagon forms on one of the remaining scum, I am sure they'll jump on the first wagon of someone innocent that arises.

As far as the arguments go so far, Mrk has an interesting point about Rob, but it's not enough, true or not, since there's too much speculation in that theory. Dedo and Vitek's argument seems pointless so far to me. Each other's accusations don't mean anything at this point. Yog's unusual behavior of prodding me but not others who haven't posted in a while is annoying. Sage is MIA at the moment. Probably having a rough day. CSPVG (Cheese Special Portuguese Video Grenade?) posted some interesting thoughts and a new look on Mrk & Rob's argument. Kryps still plays CKII. Overall things are moving slow.

I want to add that we should avoid discussing Mafia #'s since we are in no situation to need to bother with this. I would understand in the 2 previous games why someone would bother calculating and speculating this, as there were occasions where people were attempting dangerous plays.

As far as space ships go, everyone's spaceship is named based on their GOG username (I don't know if that's viable for scum as well). Obviously, the name of my spaceship is Hijack.

As far as models go, I think those are important because they are chosen based on a criteria and are related to everyone's role. However, due to the flavor of the game, us being infiltrated by enemies, I don't think spaceship models offer any indication towards alignment.

This is it for now. I'll get back to some work, and do some more reading on this later.

Yeah, we've already established that.

When I origianlally stated I had no role and was town it was in post 222, I posted this because quite a few people were saying "trentonlf is playing like he did in game 23" where I was scum, I'm not scum this game and was pointing it out. It did not become an issue until right before day 1 ended and Hijack was questioning me about possibly having a role. I stated I had already claimed town with no role. Hijack and dedo both asked when. I did not have a chance to post when before day 1 ended and so I posted when day 2 started.

Anyone get the feeling that trents role and night action are going to be the main focus on day 2 and not finding scum? I am re-reading the thread from start of day 2 and wow it seems lot a ton of talk about trents role and whatever action was or was not preformed on him. Starting to feel like this is to keep the game from going in the direction it should be! FINDING SCUM!

Also the number scum is is about as productive as kicking a dead horse. Any reason it seems to keep coming up in conversations other then to be counter productive?

The banter and tiffing back and forth is a interesting read but It seems to be moving toward feelings being hurt and posts just to defend themselves and then repeated cycle over again. We do not need to go in the wrong direction because someone is mad at the other person Now you wanna fight over something solid or a good theory be my guest but lets not get our panties in a bunch and derail the conversation away finding scum.

I agree. I have not initiated any conversations on the night action against me except to point it out when the day started to get other thoughts as I was unsure what it meant. I get tired of having to explain it over and over again.

Every time I attempt to ask questions or post my thoughts someone inevitably asks about it or paints me as scummy because of it and I have to explain all over again.

So Sage, do you think Vitek is pushing people to not talk or is he pushing people to get a reaction?

What do you think of mrkgnao's post on Robb's "Do you see why I'm doing this?" post.

Who do you have as leaning scum?

Nothing earth-shattering in your post, but I didn't really expect anything at this stage of the game.
However, I liked the tone of the post, which struck me as very pro-town.
I follow your logic about spaceship models and their relation to the flavour of the game and to people's roles, and I tend to agree with your conclusion. I have made much the same assumption when I posted #617.

about Vitek - I think right now he is pushing people to get reaction and to get a gauge on them from their reactions.

MrK- post on Robb- I went back and read the thread from books train comment and looked closely at Rob after that. I took his Do you see why as in a reference to his vote for books. But with reading it so many times am I really seeing something or am I over reading comments. It could be a ... see we need to vote for each other at some point..he also stayed with his vote on books for a bit until books explained his reason for saying it and then he removed his vote and a bit later jumped back on books. Was this because others were starting to look at books more closely and he wanted to be on the wagon or is it he had the idea books was scum and town should hunt scum.
More then the Do you know comment in the same post this stuck with me - - Flubb for example in last post 'there are things to look for, just pay close attention' - could this be a reason flub was NK. Did he think flub knew more then he was letting on? It is a stretch but it did stand out a little to me.

As for my list of scum

Hijack Kryspen, Darko, leaning a bit in the middle to scum
trent , dedo, rob - straddling the fence
Viket, yogs, CSPVG - leaning more town
MrK -Town

But please note my views are changing frequently with almost each contribution to the thread. It is hard to pin point at this point when there are pro-ish and scum-ish posts from everyone.

Sorry, have not been on, sat is my uber busy day. Lots that needs to be responded to but no time tonight. On mobile. Will try to put time in on sun