Yeah ? There's an OP that is pretty explicit though.

You might want to post such stuff there instead :
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/forum_mafia_administration_and_general_discussion_1

I was on the verge of voting for Robbeasy (based on my prior suspicions), but Darko has (at least partly) been able to skew this view through his vanilla flavoured (Good to claim for everyone!) questioning.

As for Krypsyn, I really do not see how he has been acting oddly, nor why slight deviation from what others may deem to be his 'normal' play is grounds enough to vote for him.

At this point in time, I do not see what else to do but Vote: Sage103082. Sage has been overly timid this game (given, we seem to know why she has acted in this manner), which has made me suspect of her. Add to this the fact that, though I know mostly believe HijacK to be leaning towards a town role, I can't but help shake my initial suspicion of him (HijacK). Lynching Sage would allow us to get some concrete information and judge if HijacK's reads can be trusted.

This, of course, may not matter if HijacK is killed during the night, but I somehow think that I will be the preferred target.

After going back over the thread and looking at Vitek and dedo's posts I am going to change my opinion of the two. I still believe one is scum, but not both. I have Vitek as leaning the more scummy of the two.

I also don't see the need to lynch Sage at this point, I would rather find a scum to lynch. If a consensus can not be reached on Krypsyn I will consider Vitek.

Not much happened overnight, but good to see CSPVG. Certainly hope everything is OK with Vitek.

I'll just throw in some notes on the negotiation we all seem to be doing, as I'm guessing nothing is going to happen until we're hours away from the deadline. Our two new votes only muddy the waters further.

Krypsyn is still my #1 pick. If I must move to avoid nolynch, Vitek would be my next choice - but each move down the list gets more and more random and uncomfortable.

I understand CSPVG's reasoning for the Sage lynch, but it only pays off if she flips scum or something other than what she claimed, and I find that too unlikely. If she flips exactly as claimed, it tells us Hijack is a flavor cop only - and we already have proof of that when he outed Sage's ship model. No info on alignment comes from this. Survivor doesn't become a direct threat to town unless T = M and M>1, and we're nowhere near that. I am against this lynch at this time.

I also feel like a goof for missing this earlier, but trent: Concerning your claim, in Telika's description of your role, if "focused" is the first word, could you tell me what the third word is?

Ship is my third


And, I have no role. As I've stated before I don't consider vanilla a role, calling it a role is confusing to me. I consider a role as "Doctor" or "Cop" or something like that.

Thanks, just filling in the triangle.

Yeah, and I have been kind of waiting for more elaboration on this 'weirdness' from you guys. Yogsloth made an attempt, but it was full of mischaracterizations of my posts.

See? This is at least pointing to something other than vague notions of "weird play". At least I can put myself in his shoes and actually see why he might think my play is off. Anyway, to address his concern: I stopped going after you so hard because I began to question my certainty that you were scum in the face of new data (i.e. the fall out from the CSPVG wagon and the claims by Sage and HijacK).

Really? Role fishing now?

----------------------------

Anyway, mrkgnao asked for a new reads list from me somwhere, so I suppose I'll give you one. It is going to be more bare-bones than my previous lists, but it should give a clear indication of my stances:

From Town to Scum:
1) CSPVG -- I think he claim is true.

2) Robbeasy -- I like how he went after adaliabooks on Day 1, and I like hios straightforward play in Day 2

3) dedoporno -- He has been own for me since the end of Day 1. I haven't seen him do anything voertly scummy in my eyes.

4) Vitek -- I am amazed Vitek is this high on this list. He is here more out of default. I have liked his play recently, when we hear from him (hypocrisy, I know).

5) Sage103082 -- What HijacK says about Sage's role seems to fit a Jack-of-All-Trades or some other one-shot multi-power class. She might be a "neutral", but I am not certain that she has told us everything. When I asked her to elaborate on her role, she never responded (although she did response to the post).

6) HijacK -- I believe HijacK's ship/role are 100% plausible and 90% probable, but I am uncertain that he is telling the truth about his alignment.

7) mrkgnao -- He seems to always be the man in the middle, but his views are a bit harder to nail down. I beginning to believe, more and more, that he is remaining aloof (i.e. "subtle fence-sitting") rather than being the balanced voice of reason.

8) DarkoD13 -- Yeah, I have argued this to death in other posts. However, he is no longer my prime scum target.

9) trentonlf -- He has seemed to have blinders on, being almost entirely focused on me, the entire Day. This might be legitimate, but it has more and more seemed like he might be scum hiding behind a single vote so he doesn't have to voice any other strong opinions that might be used against him in later Days. I have been reticent to move him down my list, because I felt I might be biased by OMGUS, but this is where he fell out in this list.

10) yogsloth -- Yeah, if you don't know my reasons here, then reread my most recent posts.

I must apologize for not posting, but I got some personal issues going on which sadden me greatly, so my focus is all over the place and can't get to doing anything properly. If they persist, I'll ask Telika to replace me. I'll give it a shot and do a reads post by midnight here.

I hope everything will work out in the best way possible!

Sorry to hear you are saddened, I hope all is well. If need to talk find me hear or on Steam!

I'll try to help again explain the "weirdness", by using the list above. But first, I will try to place my view in perspective:

Many of us have had to change votes “today” repeatedly as new information has come to light. I can only use my own reasoning as an example. I started Day 2 with trent as my #1 suspect, and hammered away at him accordingly. So did others. At no point, however, did he waver in his defense, or more importantly, how he “acted”. What I took for mistakes in play he continued to make even after having them pointed out, and eventually, I began to modify my view that this may just be play style, and moved him out of my #1 spot. HijacK, with his seeming anti-town maverick style, moved into that #1 spot, and I cast my first vote. Eventually, I got no support, so removed the vote. CSPVG became the group’s prime suspect for a variety of reasons. I generally agreed as he was my #2 at time, got on that wagon, and after the role claim (and subsequent lack of counter-claim), was forced to get back off. I returned to HijacK since he never left my #1 spot – a new wagon formed – and fell apart again when he role-claimed and outed sage.

I then turned to you, mainly for my perception that your voting pattern was random, and the reasoning you used for your votes too cryptic. I understand you are attempting to sway the group that this is mis-characterization on my part, so I’m doing my best here to break it down step-by-step. Perhaps even you will see my point of view.

So, here’s your voting pattern for Day 2:

Post 1072: Scum list includes CSPVG, Sage, Vitek, and Darko. You give fairly thorough analysis of everyone (I’m on your list as 2nd-place town), but less so on Darko himself, whom you then vote for. At this time, there were no real wagons formed yet (this is pre-CSPVG), but Vitek had two votes. I wondered why you didn’t vote for Vitek if you felt that

But you explained that you preferred to cast your vote for Darko, who at that time had no votes, and very little other suspicion on him.

A short time later, the wagon for CSPVG starts. You then change vote to Vitek in post 1107, with literally no explanation. After being prompted, you add your reasoning in 1111:

I wonder why you don’t explain things up front, and have to be prodded to explain your vote.

Then, in 1166, you change right back again! This is the infamous “dragon kill points” post. I still don’t know why you voted this way, but again you insist on being deliberately cryptic, instead of giving rational.

Post 1219 mrkgnao gives his best effort to explain the “weirdness” to you, but you mostly dismiss him one post later. I give my first shot at it in 1225, but it mostly goes by the wayside as the wagon for CSPVG really picks up speed after that. A wagon that, by the way, you ignore utterly until after the role claim.

Time goes by, HijacK’s wagon comes and goes (you do note that you would protest a lynch here, before his role claim), and after that falls apart, we all start the sorry job of just trying to avoid no-lynch. After I pick you, you (despite what you claim) make an OMGUS vote against me… yet another candidate who has little-to-no support among the other players. This, after you repeatedly put me near the top of town for every reads list you made for most of the game. I don’t know for sure what Darko or Vitek’s alignments are, but I certainly know mine, and I can only see this as further baffling voting behavior that doesn’t help the town’s cause in any way. Is no-lynch really preferable to you at this point?

Which now brings us to your latest reads list, which finds Vitek moved all the way to the town side, while also noting that he’s not posting. Because that makes perfect sense. Darko has been passed on the scum list by both trent (which is new), and of course, me. I interpret this that if you do pull your vote from me, you’ll move it to trent, who also has no general support for a lynch. What I see is that the candidate who was on your scum list that could possibly get lynched – Vitek – you are now moving off your potential list, and replacing it with two more names you know aren’t going to be lynched. Every move you make is to place a vote for someone you know full well isn’t going to be supported by the other players.

Weird.

For your last point on me above, that I’m “role fishing”, I think I have pretty loudly and possibly even abrasively voiced my opinion that the time is wrong for a mass role-claim… and everyone seems to be going the other way anyway.


Mrk notes the difference between the younger and older generations in our perception of this behavior. Perhaps with age and experience, I too will come to realize that such vote-flitting with little explanation is pro-town. Perhaps not. But that is why you have my vote right now.

I thought it was pretty obvious in both cases. The reasons for my changed vote was directly related to the post to which I replied. It has been amusing to see you jump all over me for it, and totally ignore my reasons though. ;)

I mentioned a while back that I had moved Vitek up to 'neutral'. This shouldn't be a surprise.

Also, two more names? I would be willing to vote for anyone other than CSPVG, Robbeasy, or dedoporno to avoid a nolynch. We have 5 more days until the deadline, so for now I am keeping my vote, as always, on my prime suspect.

As for the rest of your post ... meh.

After a night's sleep, I am not ready to let go of my suspicions about Robbeasy. I have a couple of questions about the triangular vanilla corroboration, but they shall all have to wait for day #3. I don't see a Robbeasy wagon forming today.

I went back from the CSPVG wagon towards the beginning of day #2 and tried to find the major posts making a case against Vitek and Krypsyn. I may have missed some, but I hope I captured the major ones.
They are for Vitek: 1256, 1231, 1162, 1142, 1132, 1072, 845, 831, 824, 766, 765.
They are for Krypsyn: 1225, 1219, 1176, 1161, 1160, 1147, 1006, 840, 802. [I also remember trentonlf made a long post on Krypsyn, but I must have missed it; could you add a link to it, trent?]
Sorry for not offering links.

I can't say I am particularly pleased with having to vote at this point on either of them, but it still beats a no-lynch.
Of the two, I found the Vitek case a bit more convincing (especially discouraging discussion and lazy posting), although I remember that the main reason for my moving him from the scum to the neutral list was his handling of the CSPVG claim.
I don't think votes should be delayed to the last day, especially since weekends are typically less post-heavy than weekdays. I myself may well be partly unavailable this weekend.

I guess this email plays directly into Krypsyn's argument of me being the girl in the middle. So be it. I wasn't planning on having my scum list evaporate.

More importantly, @HijacK, I hope everything turns out well for you.

VOTE Vitek

Man, that was so American that you made me crave apple pie. :P

Are the votes 3-3 for Vitek-Krypsyn at the moment? I think we will have figured it out by then. It would probably help if some people (no names) weren't voting Sage at this point.
What could be a problem in either case is a good weekend claim.