I missed this earlier, so will answer it now.

Originally, I concluded from the flavour in the introductory post that the three factions mentioned in it would be present in the game. The flavour we got after the first night kill proves that one of these factions does indeed exist.

I may well be putting two and two together and coming up with five, but I do believe that there are multiple mafia factions present in the game. I don't know how many, but considering the higher number of players than usual in this game, I think at least two is likely, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if all three of the factions mentioned in the introductory post are present.

So, yes, I still subscribe to the multiple mafia theory.

Well following on Orry's reaction and due to NFY's trouble's with trains? Or was it mobiles? I am going to unvote

And then going down my list of suspects: I still find twilightbard, so I'll be quite willing to follow you on that on Baz, since now that I've seen quite a bit of posting from Orry, I feel like the time has come to see what some of my other suspects are, by seeing more posts from them.

If I can help getting that to happen, I'll gladly vote Twilightbard, although NFY and Orry (and partly Cruward) is still on my list as well.

Thank you. What I was going to do with your answer was to ask where do you fit into that? Because let's do the math: 15 players at the beginning. Four are dead now, three regular townies and one traitor without an alignment. That's 11. Then there is me the doctor, jefe, the other lover, Angelo Cervi, the cop. That's 8. And there will presumably be a reader of this post who knows they are town as well, making this 7.

Three scumteams, with at least two people each (to make it a team), that's an extraordinary six people. What's your alignment, nmillar? Town? Where are all the scum hiding, then?

I think it was jefe here who first said the wisest thing there is to say about the multiple mafia theory: only scum cares how many mafia groups there are.

Just food for thought, I'm not going to try and draw more conclusions from this now. But if anyone asks, my top three suspects right now would be TwilightBard, Robbeasy and nmillar. Which, by the by, would be a hilarious scumteam.

I actually think it was me.. but whatever. On a side note I don't really see nmillar as scum, though I find his insistence on the multiple mafia a bit disturbing I also am rather aware that nmillar is one persistent fellow and will keep with his idea until proven otherwise by facts. So I guess after this day and night, he'll either be proven right or change his mind.

You are right; #842. My apologies.

Votecount

3 - Twilightbard - Notfrenchyet, Bazilisek, Red Baron
2- Red Baron - Nmillar,Twilightbard
1- Jefequeso - Cruward_Darkeyes
1- Sirprimalform - Robbeasy
1- Nmillar - jefequeso
1- Notfrenchyet - Damnation

Not voting:Sirprimalform,Orryyrro

Well that was unexpected. Had completely forgotten/ not noticed that NFY was voting for twilightbard.. almost makes me reconsider the vote due to suspecting NFY of scum, but only almost, since I don't know if its just some tactic they employ.

Alright,- feeling like I just have to say SOMETHING! based on recent events, I'm not sure NFY is that high on my scumdar right now, but she's definately staying there. I do find baz's points on TB very good though, especially his monstrous contradiction.

The whole RB thing is insane, and was rooted in so much wine it was almost a pain to readthrough, but never mind that, I do find it pleasing that some are willing to apply preasure when unprovoke information spouting occurs.

Then finally, I think I would like to comment on the whole "nmillar is the advocate of the multiple mafia theory" - actually, he isn't, he was the first to bring it up, and I suppose I tore the wound open during day one. But if you consider day two and three about the multiple mafia theory, it seems more like jefe and NFY are more attempting to gather proof for it. nmillar is only ever claiming he believes in multiple mafia, but doesn't hunt for proof, jefe and NFY do that. Why would anyone hunt so much for proof and then shove the faintest inkling into everyone's face and claim it to be proof? Why would they care so much about multiple mafia? I honestly think nmillar's approach to the theory is the healthiest - mention you believe in it, and then let it be. (That said, I do think the whole multiple mafia theory would have jumped up sooner or later even if nmillar had not brought it up on day one.)

hmmmm, before I defend myself, I have a rather interesting observation I'd like to throw out in front of the group. Everytime someone's been accused of something that's obviously scum, they keep throwing out the phrase 'Why would Mafia do this?'. I find this, very suspicious, it's been in my brain all day as I've been baking.

The correct term I'm thinking of is "Why would TOWN do this?". The only reason I bring this up, is because everytime I see something so obviously scummy that it hurts, it's deflected, even if the event in question is something a townie shouldn't do, it's taken as 'oh, it's too obvious to be a scum move.'

Just something I'd like to point out, seems pretty important to me.

Just going to note that I've seen plenty of examples where it weren't deflected - like Rodzaju, although that one is still so much that it can't really be compared, but I've seen plenty of others. However the last thing you wrote I guess is part of an important difference, a clear scummy move is very hard to excuse by saying its too scummy to be scum, though if I recall right I have seen that one used in a mafia game.

On a side note: Its getting fair late, so any odd rambles might just be me being sleepy...

Ugh, this is gonna take longer then I thought, there's an error somewhere and I can't post it before I find it...grrrrrrrrr

Except that it's the final straw, and not my only argument. If it's my only argument then you have something here.

One of the biggest scumtells I have is from you for the simple reason of claiming Doctor, unpressured as you were. The post you quoted from Rod when you claimed, wasn't anything that would lead to pressure, and like I've repeatedly said, You went from 'possible power role' to 'no doubt in anyone's mind that you're one of the most important power roles in this game' [Post 227 for Baz's claim]

The information wasn't all out in the open, in fact it was fairly muddy because of how Rodzaju was dancing around it, trying not to spill the beans while letting you know that he knew. You let the cat out of the bag and then painted yourself as the victim this entire time. You had a perfect target to potentially block a nightkill, and you let yourself out into the open more then anyone can do.

You jumped right back into it after Day 2 started, asking about what your 'sanity' was from Rod, which seems more like an attempt to distance yourself from what happened to Joe, probably because you had him targetted. When he suggested that

I'm going to stop, because to me there's more, and I don't have a minute to build anything completely, just trying to find moments to type out this defense.

And I do understand that, but I believe that hiding honest thoughts can be a bad thing as it leaves nothing to really draw on. When I responded to it though, I was explaining how come I DIDN'T vote for you, the full quote explained that I was giving the benefit of the doubt at that point in time as Jefe's position was bothering me far more.

Oh, and as for aiming at Jefe, you had him high on your list of suspects and targetted him for your ability to roleblock him, so obviously the thought was in your mind too, I simply made the choice to vocalize what others were thinking.

Oh, and as it for being a Scum only tactic...Rod brought it up at the beginning of day 2.

If Rod had the agenda to lynch you, then I don't think he would have so easily given you a chance to claim in such a way that would make an impression on everyone. Methinks that his agenda might have been use you to strengthen his position so he could strike at the case he can more easily make. The fact that he lied calls into question even him calling you town in the beginning,

This is grasping for straws honestly, it's truly twisting my words and quoting just enough to let you build a case.

I never doubted you as a doctor, but everyone seems to quickly forget that your ability can be used offensively as well as a roleblocker. They see the doctor but don't see the paranoid part that leads you to roleblocking.

As for the lynch flavour, the same email that mentioned you also said "They are both no longer fit for their purpose and need to be replaced with someone more adequate". I guess you can call it a confirmation, but it sure doesn't paint you in a good light either.

How is asking for alignment role fishing?
Oh come on.
Suddenly it's only roleblocking jefe and not protecting jefe. Interesting.
It calls into question everything he said, which is why I brought up this point.
Oh, I'm nowhere near finished with my case against you.

Okay, catch up time. I'm not trying to run us in circles here but I do want to briefly respond to the points against me.

@Damnation:
1:
I think you may have missed my point... The "added information" comes from comparing the NK discovery and Red's PM: that underlined phrase is the only thing which is different, and as such it's added information. That is the only reason I brought it up, and I said as much when I did so. Apparently it's not worth pursuing, which is why I haven't touched it since.

(Pre-post edit: the new paraphrasing/quoting issue makes the above even more redundant, since I only brought it up in terms of verifying the PM. If Baron's PM was a paraphrase anyway, there's absolutely no point in pursuing this any further.)

2: If you still believe I was, could you quote something to back up your idea that I was scapegoating Red? As you say, scapegoating implies there was attention on me, which there wasn't. The way this is presented, it feels bizarrely like I'm somehow not allowed to suspect people unless I'm under suspicion...

3: Preventing Bard from hunting Baz? Where'd you get that from...? I think you'll find I would be less suspicious of Bard if he was actually pursuing Baz more actively... I refer you to my post #872: ---

@Baron:
I didn't vote for you because I wasn't sure of what this whole kill-claim meant. My reaction to your PM posting was to try and verify if it could be genuine (this was back when we all thought you'd quoted directly) - my method was to compare the two postings. If I had insisted on the point, then I can see how you'd think I was trying to subtly push you as a lynch target. However, I concentrated more on the reactions this post provoked (#913 and #920).

Currently, after that whole paraphrase/quote scandal, you're leaning town in my book.

Vote still stands on Bard. I've seen nothing so far to make me rethink it.