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Vitek: Well why do you think he did it then? You imply he only made it up after baz provided some information but still think he's town?
Not made it up, but maybe post restricted.

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bazilisek: Nope. To do that, I'd have to lie, and liars always get lynched on principle
So ask him to reveal your role instead of doing it yourself.
I don't believe in that principle when town is dealing with a challenge of verifying information. I wouldn't have lynched you for that (Don't know about the others though).
I would have welcomed any plot that would put Rodzaju as the claiming side, and baz on the verifying side.
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Orryyrro: Lynch all Liars is considered good practice as a result.
Yea, that worked great at mafia #8 ;-)
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Vitek: Well why do you think he did it then? You imply he only made it up after baz provided some information but still think he's town?
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itai.sharim: Not made it up, but maybe post restricted.

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bazilisek: Nope. To do that, I'd have to lie, and liars always get lynched on principle
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itai.sharim: So ask him to reveal your role instead of doing it yourself.
I don't believe in that principle when town is dealing with a challenge of verifying information. I wouldn't have lynched you for that (Don't know about the others though).
I would have welcomed any plot that would put Rodzaju as the claiming side, and baz on the verifying side.
That's very very trusting of Baz there itai....can we have your reasoning for trusting Baz, but not Rod?

As I've said, I'm personally of the opinion that whatever has gone on between them tells us nothing that can define whether either of them is Town or Mafia, in any way shape or form.
The general rule of thumb is - If you're Mafia, you lie. If you're Town, you don't. As Baz has said, lying about his role to 'trap' Rod could easily be construed as a ploy on his part - and who is to say it isn't?

I know what you mean when you talk about verifying information - information is power in this game, after all. We have to be very careful about that info though - as Rod has already found out, just spouting it willy , and indeed, nilly, just gets you into everyones bad books.
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itai.sharim: I would have welcomed any plot that would put Rodzaju as the claiming side, and baz on the verifying side.
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Robbeasy: That's very very trusting of Baz there itai....can we have your reasoning for trusting Baz, but not Rod?
As it stands, I trust them both - evident by my willingness to let Rodzaju lead the lynch today (Post 296).

However, baz revealing his role did not gain anything to town. We knew (high chance) baz has a power role, but what can a town member do with the specifics of the role?
In other words, baz claiming and Rodzaju verifying makes the town trust baz more, but the general feeling was that baz is town.

On the other hand, Rodzaju claiming and baz verifying would really paint Rodzaju as town because I don't think any mafia member would start with this information.
Additionally, it could serve as a gauge to determine Rodzaju limit of sharing his info.

Granted, they could still both be mafia. But, as Vitek commented (post 240), this is a plot with a very high risk to mafia.
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Orryyrro: Lynch all Liars is considered good practice as a result.
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itai.sharim: Yea, that worked great at mafia #8 ;-)
That was a fringe case, and really not a flaw in play on part of the town. It probably would have turned out better had I actually claimed cop on day 1 instead of waiting until day 2, and of course, not lied.
So, my activity has been worse than attrocious, but I have reread the entire thread now, and have some notes taken which I will use to construct a post with. But first off,

unvote

Though, my post will be slightly delayed (Very busy with uni work at the moment, so will be writing on it during breaks.). I will be upping my activity, no worries, and I will soon enough be amoung the main suspects agani I'm sure, for unconventional theories and insane leaps of logic :p
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Damnation: ...I will be upping my activity, no worries, and I will soon enough be amoung the main suspects agani I'm sure, for unconventional theories and insane leaps of logic :p
As opposed to among the main suspects for hiding in the dark corners of the thread....
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Rodzaju: As opposed to among the main suspects for hiding in the dark corners of the thread....
Oh yes, totally. I merely meant I'm sure I will receive tons of flak.

My reads are, however:

Town: None of you
Leaning town: Rodzaju
Uncertain: Bazilisek, TwilightBard, Cruward_darkeyes, jefequeso
Leaning Mafia: itai.sharim, QuadrAlien, Orryyrro, Grynn, Sir Primalform, Vitek
Mafia: JoeSapphire, nmillar

Grynn, Sir Primalform, Vitek, QuadrAlien and Orryyrro have been placed where they have due to inactivity, lurker and all that.

Cruward_darkeyes is inexperienced, and it strongly shows, but who's not to say it's a ploy to throw us off guard? jefequeso also appears strongly inexperienced, but what he tends to say gives me somewhat of a town vibe at times, but not enough to make me think he is town.
TwilightBard, the only thing I have been able to pick up on about him was his desire to skip RVS, which isn't a whole lot to go for. Consider this that I don't pay all that much attention to him, as he hardly is in the limelight - a mistake on my part, perhaps, but either way, it's there.

Then there's five people left, Rodzaju, Bazilisek, itai.sharim, JoeSapphire and nmillar.

Let's start with itai.sharim first:
He clearly has experience with this type of game, no question there, even if this is the first time he plays it over a forum. This doesn't make me suspecious of him, however. Rather his ability to pop into nearly every discussion without really receiving much flak, and yet never, as with most people, never weigh the possibilities, but rather just sling them out. He has a tendency to ask rather good questions, however, but did so during a time where his questions would only further implicate certain people and would in no way be useful to town. (If you start the whole "us" vs "town" debacle again, I will come to your house and tear your balls off, as I perceive this as purely a matter of definition and up to each and every person's way of expressing himself)
This is mainly why I think he's leaning mafia, rather than actually reading him as mafia - I mgiht be completely off in my interpretation of him, after all.

Bazilisek - I want to perceive as town, but, well, there's a strong chance he's lying. There's a chance the entire friction between him and Rodzaju is just a mafia ploy to spread extreme confusion. I know he mentioned he was not capable of such, but he is either being modest or lying - baz is someone I perceive as smart enough to work something like this out with Rodzaju, no question.
Then there's the claim as doctor in post 227. This was also the first post where baz actually admitted to the name mentioned by Rod. Even worse, he made a roleclaim, and a powerrole at that. This claim was COMPLETELY uncalled for, and his reason for doing it was extremely appalling, and I honestly found it slightly insulting - "because it's already out there"? No, it wasn't, there was a name floating about that was never proven, there were theories by people who were not Rodzaju that Rodzaju might know of power roles, no confirmation to this, other than Rod having information, there was no proof that Rod had correct information, or if he was just throwing out random names. No proof, and yet you went ahead and roleclaimed unprovoked! The topic had even rested for quite a while! And funny thing - Ubivis claimed doctor in mafia 2 as well, and he receive insane amounts of flak for doing it unprovoked, but not baz? That's poor, you guys let slips past you like water through a net...
I think post 231 by baz has been in some discussion (The standard doctor vs POSSIBLY quack), but never really the determination baz had when he accused Rod of lying.
I'd also like to bring up the point baz makes in post 251, that we have been pushed into a rabbit whole we cannot get out off - a rabbit hole that was dug by Rod, but we were very much pushed into it by baz and nmillar to a certain degree. People kept pushing Rod for information, so obviously we're bound to end up in a shithole when the information is best left unlearnt...
One last bit, post 141 seems like a desperate attempt to defend yourself, baz.

JoeSapphire ends up on my list of people I'm getting a pretty strong mafia read on. People mention he has stepped into debates, attempting to protect Rod. Ei. defending what looks to be the losing partner, thereby creating a potential bond between them, so when Rod dies and possibly flips Town, Joe would appear as having tried to protect a townie, making himself look good.
This isn't my main irk, though.
I think Joe carries a certain tone in his posts when the whole baz/Rod thing escalates and baz roleclaims. Joe seems too... excited about this revelation, and his posts carry a certain amused hint, as if he finds the entire situation funny. Further, he stays a lot in the background, posting only posts that in and off themselves contain somewhat little contribution after baz claimed. I think he was happy a doctor, no matter what kind (And if baz truly IS a doctor), got outed.

Rodzaju I find as unlucky in his situations as he always is, but he has performed very foolish things. The first was outing the names, even if they were false, especially with his rather poor argument of being at L-4. Then he further claimed there was another doctor, and that the second name he has mentioned is someone town does not want dead at all. Very, very poor moves. Though this has been the entirety of the discussion surrounding him. If he is telling the truth, then I stronlgy doubt he is mafia, and at this stage, I'm inclined to believe him. The main reason is actually by somewhat metagaming, which I will not elaborate further (Other than it is nested in his playstyle and how he phrases himself). Of course, he could be lying, and as mentioned, it could all be a ploy by both him and bazilisek. But I'm more inclined to believe Rod more than baz due to some of the slips baz has made (I am not saying one being truthful excludes the other from being so). So yeah, I see Rod as one who made terrible plays during the game and not really anything else. My opinion can change, however, and knowing Rod, it possibly will :p

nmillar, however, is probably one people are wondering why I put on my list of mafia reads. Firstly, he seemed eager to prod Rod for soem information - extorting it for his own benefit, but when Rod exclaimed wish to drop it, he stopped, attempting to mask his desire for said information. Further, he explicitly bites into the "baz is a quack who has 100% kill chance" without any proof other than the idea having been put out. He also appears very silent after baz claimed. I realise the "silent" argument I have used is hypocritical, but I have had no time at all to post these theories before, and nmillar have disappeared without much explanation.
This last bit is post 39. He clearly states there are more than one mafia. He doesn't say the flavour indicates it, but does quote it so it appears he has a publicly founded reason for his statement, but his statement is clearly "There are more mafia", not "The flavour indicates there are more mafia". I read this as a strong scumtell as to me it appears he most certainly knows there are more mafia in this game.
Lastly, nmillar never voted in RVS, and as itai.shiram mentioned, mafia are less likely to randomly vote in RVS than town - this is a minor detail, but in conjunction with the rest, I think this fits too well in.

Therefore,

vote nmillar

If you disagree with me or think I have a massive flaw in my logic, do feel free to point it out :p
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Damnation: This last bit is post 39. He clearly states there are more than one mafia. He doesn't say the flavour indicates it, but does quote it so it appears he has a publicly founded reason for his statement, but his statement is clearly "There are more mafia", not "The flavour indicates there are more mafia". I read this as a strong scumtell as to me it appears he most certainly knows there are more mafia in this game.
But that seems like a pretty basic mistake that an experienced Mafia wouldn't make.

The rest is pretty suspicious though.
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Damnation: This last bit is post 39. He clearly states there are more than one mafia. He doesn't say the flavour indicates it, but does quote it so it appears he has a publicly founded reason for his statement, but his statement is clearly "There are more mafia", not "The flavour indicates there are more mafia". I read this as a strong scumtell as to me it appears he most certainly knows there are more mafia in this game.
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jefequeso: But that seems like a pretty basic mistake that an experienced Mafia wouldn't make.

The rest is pretty suspicious though.
Nmillar is an experienced player, but to my knowledge has never actually been mafia before...
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jefequeso: Unless you include being a jelly person (which I was twice in a single game), then no, I have never been mafia.


But that seems like a pretty basic mistake that an experienced Mafia wouldn't make.

The rest is pretty suspicious though.
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Rodzaju: Nmillar is an experienced player, but to my knowledge has never actually been mafia before...
Complete quoting fail on my last post! :/

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Damnation: nmillar, however, is probably one people are wondering why I put on my list of mafia reads. Firstly, he seemed eager to prod Rod for soem information - extorting it for his own benefit, but when Rod exclaimed wish to drop it, he stopped, attempting to mask his desire for said information. Further, he explicitly bites into the "baz is a quack who has 100% kill chance" without any proof other than the idea having been put out. He also appears very silent after baz claimed. I realise the "silent" argument I have used is hypocritical, but I have had no time at all to post these theories before, and nmillar have disappeared without much explanation.
This last bit is post 39. He clearly states there are more than one mafia. He doesn't say the flavour indicates it, but does quote it so it appears he has a publicly founded reason for his statement, but his statement is clearly "There are more mafia", not "The flavour indicates there are more mafia". I read this as a strong scumtell as to me it appears he most certainly knows there are more mafia in this game.
Lastly, nmillar never voted in RVS, and as itai.shiram mentioned, mafia are less likely to randomly vote in RVS than town - this is a minor detail, but in conjunction with the rest, I think this fits too well in.
First of all, I kept my vote on Rodzaju until quite recently; I certainly didn't drop it at the time, though I accept there is the possibility he could be town.

I did not "bite in" to bazilisek being a quack, but I did suggest it could be a possibility. And the silence after bazilisek claimed? That would be about the time I was out getting absolutely smashed while celebrating my birthday! ;)

I chose not to vote in RVS, because like several others (Jefesquo, Robbeasy, etc.), it seemed like a waste of time. By that stage, a couple of people had already made what could be seen as slips (the case of Rodzaju's post wording early on), so why would I vote for someone randomly, when there was already something interesting building?

And, as for the wording of post 39; I believe there is more than one faction in this game - the four groups were mentioned in the introductory post. I'm afraid you appear to be about a week behind everyone; are you sure you've read the entire thread? We already covered this in posts 86 - 90.

I shouldn't be surprised that you've voted for me; you tend to do so in most games! :P
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nmillar: And, as for the wording of post 39; I believe there is more than one faction in this game - the four groups were mentioned in the introductory post. I'm afraid you appear to be about a week behind everyone; are you sure you've read the entire thread? We already covered this in posts 86 - 90.

I shouldn't be surprised that you've voted for me; you tend to do so in most games! :P
Of course I vote for you, I hate you and I want you dead, I thought that was obvious? :p

Anyhow, the posts to refer to do not deal with the wording you used in post 39, they deal with the topic, and yes, you're part of the discussion, but who's not to say you make varied suggestions to cover up your previous claim as to there being multiple factions? I'm not saying there aren't, do not get me wrong, I am just pointing the finger at you for making a statement where you say there definately are more factions, while not having any concrete proof. And linking to the flavour you know shouldn't make anything concrete and true, as you do not know if it's only one of the groups that are still active. So no, I am not really a week behind, I have read the entire thread, yes, what struck me was your wording in that post, and it was never picked up by anyone, and as such, you being part of the "number of mafia" discussion could be used as a cover by you, which I believe it is.
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Damnation: Snip.
Yes, and I already explained the wording of post 39 - I believe there is more than one faction in this game. Why are you so keen to disprove this theory?
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Damnation: Snip.
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nmillar: Yes, and I already explained the wording of post 39 - I believe there is more than one faction in this game. Why are you so keen to disprove this theory?
The point as I see it is that you BELIEVE that there are more than 1 mafia faction here, but you present it as a fact.
If you know it for a fact, how?
If not, your misrepresenting the situation & trying to railroad us into an unproven & potentially misleading premise.