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General discussion (archive)GOG Forum Mafia #9(1926 posts)(1926 posts)
(1926 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 14, 2012
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Damnation: I'd like to ask people a question:

Why do you think bazilisek is town?

Specifically Zchinque, Jefe and SPF who seem willing to let him decide the fate of the game.
Mostly I find it hard to believe that we don't have a doc.
Posted February 14, 2012
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Damnation: I'd like to ask people a question:

Why do you think bazilisek is town?

Specifically Zchinque, Jefe and SPF who seem willing to let him decide the fate of the game.
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SirPrimalform: Mostly I find it hard to believe that we don't have a doc.
If you consider the protections that seem to run rampant? 2-shot bulletproof cop, (possibly) bulletproof JoAT who can also protect and commute, a lover who does not die the usual lover's death, a backup for the paranoid doctor/jailkeeper. And there's your role, which effectively kills the one who would nightkill you, in effect a kind of self-targeting bodyguard.
Posted February 14, 2012
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Damnation: I'd like to ask people a question:

Why do you think bazilisek is town?

Specifically Zchinque, Jefe and SPF who seem willing to let him decide the fate of the game.
I had a bunch of reasons, but since I'm in a really screwed up mental state right now, I can't remember most of them. I CAN confirm that his claim of paranoid doctor is true, though.
Posted February 14, 2012
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jefequeso: I CAN confirm that his claim of paranoid doctor is true, though.
Confirm it then.
Posted February 14, 2012
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jefequeso: I CAN confirm that his claim of paranoid doctor is true, though.
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Damnation: Confirm it then.
Umm...he roleblocked me, remember?

(gotta go. Won't be able to reply until later)
Posted February 14, 2012
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jefequeso: Umm...he roleblocked me, remember?

(gotta go. Won't be able to reply until later)
I remember you said you were roleblocked, but did your pm state explicitly that it was baz? And why would you being roleblocked confirm him paranoid doctor, and not jailkeeper? (And yes, there is quite a difference!)
Posted February 14, 2012
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jefequeso: Umm...he roleblocked me, remember?

(gotta go. Won't be able to reply until later)
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Damnation: I remember you said you were roleblocked, but did your pm state explicitly that it was baz? And why would you being roleblocked confirm him paranoid doctor, and not jailkeeper? (And yes, there is quite a difference!)
From what I remember of Jef's account of his blocking, whoever it was that blocked him was a doctor.

And the only difference between paranoid doc and jailkeeper is flavour really. Didn't Rodzaju's lynch also confirm Baz as being a Doc?
Posted February 14, 2012
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SirPrimalform: From what I remember of Jef's account of his blocking, whoever it was that blocked him was a doctor.

And the only difference between paranoid doc and jailkeeper is flavour really. Didn't Rodzaju's lynch also confirm Baz as being a Doc?
Rod's lynch flavour mentioned baz was a doctor by profession, does that necessarily mean doctor by power role as well?

A per difference between paranoid doctor and jailkeeper - you're not entirely correct, the flavour is still entirely up to the mod. The main difference is in the information, I'm astounded by how people seem to brush that off - if informationwas so insignificant, we wouldn't be worried about who was lying about their role claim, as knowing one another's role would be worthless. If information is something to be brushed aside, why do we keep bickering about it? Why are you hunting Red for not being clear enough about his information, when it clearly is something we can just brush aside? Information of ANY kind is important!
Posted February 14, 2012
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Damnation: I'd like to ask people a question:

Why do you think bazilisek is town?

Specifically Zchinque, Jefe and SPF who seem willing to let him decide the fate of the game.
I seem to remember having him read town based on play, from when I did my read through. However, I have troubles getting into games when I replace in, so I've focused more on analyzing claims, roles, actions and setups in this game rather than posts - as you might have noticed.

But there is one biggie in Baz' favour - he was outed as doc by Rod, a proven non-mafia. I believe Rod stated that Baz was doc, before Baz did so himself. We don't know exactly what Rod's role PM said about Baz - whether it clearly stated that Baz is doc, or if it's something he inferred from flavour - but there are many circumstances that had to fall in Baz' favour for things to work out if he's not town. Rod would have had to incorrectly infer from flavour, rolename or similar that Baz was doc, Baz would then have to pull off a major gambit in claiming doc, as he wouldn't know that there wasn't actually a doctor in the town*, and there had to be no doctor.

*If Baz is mafia and has been told that there is no doctor, that's pretty much just poor design.

However, there are some things that indicates Baz may in fact be scum, which is more relevant now that one player, possibly two, is claiming bulletproof. I hesitate to mention some of these, as they are either gaming the mod or WIFOMy, and as such not very good points.
-Baz has not only claimed doc, he's claimed selfprotecting doc, a relatively rare role. There's also something strange with the flavour of a jailkeeper that can target themselves.
-Baz is still alive, despite being outed day 1. A poor point as it is WIFOM in it's purest sense, but it is odd that seemingly none of the mafia factions has found killing the doc worthy of their time (both nights Baz claims to have selfprotected the mafia kill is accounted for).
-Baz conveniently self-protected both nights when the Shattered Hand performed the kill, while we know he blocked Jefe on night 2, when we assume the Gambianis had the kill.
Posted February 14, 2012
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Zchinque: But there is one biggie in Baz' favour - he was outed as doc by Rod, a proven non-mafia. I believe Rod stated that Baz was doc, before Baz did so himself.
It was the other way around, actually. I claimed first (#227), but before that, he quite openly said "Denton Walters" and "Angelo Cervi" were town-aligned power roles (#119: "Just demonstrating knowledge of players in the game that REALLY should not be available to mafia").

Also, I find Damnation's "Rod's lynch flavour mentioned baz was a doctor by profession, does that necessarily mean doctor by power role as well?" hilarious.
Posted February 14, 2012
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bazilisek: It was the other way around, actually. I claimed first (#227), but before that, he quite openly said "Denton Walters" and "Angelo Cervi" were town-aligned power roles (#119: "Just demonstrating knowledge of players in the game that REALLY should not be available to mafia").
My mistake. I looked it up a couple of days ago to make sure I had the order right, and couldn't find anything specific mentioned until Rod did so. Don't know how I missed your post, as I remember reading the conversation just below it.
In any case, it doesn't change the fact that several things would happen to fall your way for that gambit to pay off, if you are scum.

Anyway, we need to figure out how to proceed from here, in light of recent information.
Posted February 14, 2012
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bazilisek: It was the other way around, actually. I claimed first (#227), but before that, he quite openly said "Denton Walters" and "Angelo Cervi" were town-aligned power roles
Actually I don't recall him saying they were town.. He said he assumed that he suspected one to be scum and the other town, not that he knew their alignment if I recall correct.
Posted February 14, 2012
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jefequeso: Umm...he roleblocked me, remember?

(gotta go. Won't be able to reply until later)
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Damnation: I remember you said you were roleblocked, but did your pm state explicitly that it was baz? And why would you being roleblocked confirm him paranoid doctor, and not jailkeeper? (And yes, there is quite a difference!)
Yes, it explicitly shows him as being a doctor (I'm given pills, I'm taken to the hospital, he's called "the doctor of the city," and he even says the famous "take two of these and call me in the morning."). And yes, I'm 99.9% certain that it's Baz (not 100% only because his name only gets mentioned the next morning when he's offering me coffee in my hospital bed, so it's POSSIBLE that the doctor that blocked me and Baz are two different people...but that's unlikely to the point where it's almost not worth mentioning, since that would require X to be deliberately writing flavor to try and confuse us, and imply that the real doctor has kept silent as Baz somehow guessed his role to the letter).

After my flavor, X sent another message that said that it should have read "protected/roleblocked" instead of just "roleblocked"

And, if I remember correctly, didn't Baz state that he used his night action on me before I ever came out with that information? I don't recall specifically, but I seem to remember that.

Then there's the fact that Rod basically confirmed him as doctor.

All in all, I think that if he ISN'T town, he's either pulling a HUGE number of unseen strings, or he's the best mafia player this world has ever witnessed.
Posted February 15, 2012
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Red_Baron: Actually I don't recall him saying they were town.. He said he assumed that he suspected one to be scum and the other town, not that he knew their alignment if I recall correct.
a) That was much later. By then, he was deep in liar territory and nothing of what he said is necessarily true. He was a lyncher, remember? He wanted town to kill us, which is not so easy to do when you've already openly said your targets are the bloody doctor and the cop.
b) Have you actually read the quote from #119 I have posted?
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jefequeso: And, if I remember correctly, didn't Baz state that he used his night action on me before I ever came out with that information? I don't recall specifically, but I seem to remember that.
Yes, I did. I shared the whole story from my perspective and said I learned your first name starts with an L. That was in #847, if anyone can actually be bothered to read so far in history.
Posted February 15, 2012
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jefequeso: Yes, it explicitly shows him as being a doctor (I'm given pills, I'm taken to the hospital, he's called "the doctor of the city," and he even says the famous "take two of these and call me in the morning."). And yes, I'm 99.9% certain that it's Baz (not 100% only because his name only gets mentioned the next morning when he's offering me coffee in my hospital bed, so it's POSSIBLE that the doctor that blocked me and Baz are two different people...but that's unlikely to the point where it's almost not worth mentioning, since that would require X to be deliberately writing flavor to try and confuse us, and imply that the real doctor has kept silent as Baz somehow guessed his role to the letter).
Just so I'm sure I understand you completely, did your pm state it was Denton Walters, as in explicitly stating his name? I'm only asking because your message seems vague. (I realise doctor of the city is a huge pointer towards baz, but I'm just making completely sure)
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)GOG Forum Mafia #9(1926 posts)(1926 posts)
(1926 posts)