Posted February 14, 2012
![my name is catte](https://images.gog.com/733fcc8fcd26583e14319e51f8ad9a66211c89e331163f14a419594ca63b675d_forum_avatar.jpg)
my name is catte
i touch your foods
Registered: Mar 2010
From United Kingdom
![Damnation](https://images.gog.com/c5758dbe831fb74b246053dff6119e24acb3319cbdec503b78833cbf448b2eba_forum_avatar.jpg)
Damnation
And never to return...
Registered: Mar 2009
From Denmark
Posted February 14, 2012
If you consider the protections that seem to run rampant? 2-shot bulletproof cop, (possibly) bulletproof JoAT who can also protect and commute, a lover who does not die the usual lover's death, a backup for the paranoid doctor/jailkeeper. And there's your role, which effectively kills the one who would nightkill you, in effect a kind of self-targeting bodyguard.
![jefequeso](https://images.gog.com/313d7abd6f742e82f6e3b8bb21b92aed8df8d869a91246896d278d4e4f136c00_forum_avatar.jpg)
jefequeso
New User
Registered: Dec 2010
From United States
Posted February 14, 2012
I had a bunch of reasons, but since I'm in a really screwed up mental state right now, I can't remember most of them. I CAN confirm that his claim of paranoid doctor is true, though.
![Damnation](https://images.gog.com/c5758dbe831fb74b246053dff6119e24acb3319cbdec503b78833cbf448b2eba_forum_avatar.jpg)
Damnation
And never to return...
Registered: Mar 2009
From Denmark
![jefequeso](https://images.gog.com/313d7abd6f742e82f6e3b8bb21b92aed8df8d869a91246896d278d4e4f136c00_forum_avatar.jpg)
jefequeso
New User
Registered: Dec 2010
From United States
![Damnation](https://images.gog.com/c5758dbe831fb74b246053dff6119e24acb3319cbdec503b78833cbf448b2eba_forum_avatar.jpg)
Damnation
And never to return...
Registered: Mar 2009
From Denmark
Posted February 14, 2012
I remember you said you were roleblocked, but did your pm state explicitly that it was baz? And why would you being roleblocked confirm him paranoid doctor, and not jailkeeper? (And yes, there is quite a difference!)
![my name is catte](https://images.gog.com/733fcc8fcd26583e14319e51f8ad9a66211c89e331163f14a419594ca63b675d_forum_avatar.jpg)
my name is catte
i touch your foods
Registered: Mar 2010
From United Kingdom
![Damnation](https://images.gog.com/c5758dbe831fb74b246053dff6119e24acb3319cbdec503b78833cbf448b2eba_forum_avatar.jpg)
Damnation
And never to return...
Registered: Mar 2009
From Denmark
Posted February 14, 2012
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2011/11/cb5cdded62b346bd861845e43298c39ed0987f91_t.jpg)
And the only difference between paranoid doc and jailkeeper is flavour really. Didn't Rodzaju's lynch also confirm Baz as being a Doc?
A per difference between paranoid doctor and jailkeeper - you're not entirely correct, the flavour is still entirely up to the mod. The main difference is in the information, I'm astounded by how people seem to brush that off - if informationwas so insignificant, we wouldn't be worried about who was lying about their role claim, as knowing one another's role would be worthless. If information is something to be brushed aside, why do we keep bickering about it? Why are you hunting Red for not being clear enough about his information, when it clearly is something we can just brush aside? Information of ANY kind is important!
![Zchinque](https://images.gog.com/d103b049ec8504d0dcf4aeaae7b83273049840f6749f13812bdfe7bfafe2c698_forum_avatar.jpg)
Zchinque
Antagonist
Registered: Apr 2010
From Norway
Posted February 14, 2012
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2010/10/0a2f928c44cf6d9dd6231b84795bd1105b973c4d_t.jpg)
Why do you think bazilisek is town?
Specifically Zchinque, Jefe and SPF who seem willing to let him decide the fate of the game.
But there is one biggie in Baz' favour - he was outed as doc by Rod, a proven non-mafia. I believe Rod stated that Baz was doc, before Baz did so himself. We don't know exactly what Rod's role PM said about Baz - whether it clearly stated that Baz is doc, or if it's something he inferred from flavour - but there are many circumstances that had to fall in Baz' favour for things to work out if he's not town. Rod would have had to incorrectly infer from flavour, rolename or similar that Baz was doc, Baz would then have to pull off a major gambit in claiming doc, as he wouldn't know that there wasn't actually a doctor in the town*, and there had to be no doctor.
*If Baz is mafia and has been told that there is no doctor, that's pretty much just poor design.
However, there are some things that indicates Baz may in fact be scum, which is more relevant now that one player, possibly two, is claiming bulletproof. I hesitate to mention some of these, as they are either gaming the mod or WIFOMy, and as such not very good points.
-Baz has not only claimed doc, he's claimed selfprotecting doc, a relatively rare role. There's also something strange with the flavour of a jailkeeper that can target themselves.
-Baz is still alive, despite being outed day 1. A poor point as it is WIFOM in it's purest sense, but it is odd that seemingly none of the mafia factions has found killing the doc worthy of their time (both nights Baz claims to have selfprotected the mafia kill is accounted for).
-Baz conveniently self-protected both nights when the Shattered Hand performed the kill, while we know he blocked Jefe on night 2, when we assume the Gambianis had the kill.
![bazilisek](https://images.gog.com/bd0831e770bf3d405c000f21bc799c935e9a911e0dcd487ccda0dafcf7c89ea4_forum_avatar.jpg)
bazilisek
gone
Registered: Oct 2009
From Czech Republic
Posted February 14, 2012
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2010/10/ca46feef17509ba13a21a4d2fc090da76361af1c_t.jpg)
Also, I find Damnation's "Rod's lynch flavour mentioned baz was a doctor by profession, does that necessarily mean doctor by power role as well?" hilarious.
![Zchinque](https://images.gog.com/d103b049ec8504d0dcf4aeaae7b83273049840f6749f13812bdfe7bfafe2c698_forum_avatar.jpg)
Zchinque
Antagonist
Registered: Apr 2010
From Norway
Posted February 14, 2012
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2009/10/d7e936f65edb74e4994b09591f92a9811d09c4f6_t.jpg)
In any case, it doesn't change the fact that several things would happen to fall your way for that gambit to pay off, if you are scum.
Anyway, we need to figure out how to proceed from here, in light of recent information.
![Red_Baron](https://images.gog.com/5754284bd9457c41089842baaa33d4b01fc0ce79d21f0c839248754cbed51ad1_forum_avatar.jpg)
Red_Baron
Best Rant Ever!
Registered: Nov 2009
From Denmark
Posted February 14, 2012
Actually I don't recall him saying they were town.. He said he assumed that he suspected one to be scum and the other town, not that he knew their alignment if I recall correct.
![jefequeso](https://images.gog.com/313d7abd6f742e82f6e3b8bb21b92aed8df8d869a91246896d278d4e4f136c00_forum_avatar.jpg)
jefequeso
New User
Registered: Dec 2010
From United States
Posted February 14, 2012
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2010/10/0a2f928c44cf6d9dd6231b84795bd1105b973c4d_t.jpg)
After my flavor, X sent another message that said that it should have read "protected/roleblocked" instead of just "roleblocked"
And, if I remember correctly, didn't Baz state that he used his night action on me before I ever came out with that information? I don't recall specifically, but I seem to remember that.
Then there's the fact that Rod basically confirmed him as doctor.
All in all, I think that if he ISN'T town, he's either pulling a HUGE number of unseen strings, or he's the best mafia player this world has ever witnessed.
![bazilisek](https://images.gog.com/bd0831e770bf3d405c000f21bc799c935e9a911e0dcd487ccda0dafcf7c89ea4_forum_avatar.jpg)
bazilisek
gone
Registered: Oct 2009
From Czech Republic
Posted February 15, 2012
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2011/03/3bb5b298a3a33ddc7d5f48e0e383c131ef29e68b_t.jpg)
b) Have you actually read the quote from #119 I have posted?
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2012/02/c8af6f4b92e77180122a320a0d600783c972cc61_t.jpg)
![Damnation](https://images.gog.com/c5758dbe831fb74b246053dff6119e24acb3319cbdec503b78833cbf448b2eba_forum_avatar.jpg)
Damnation
And never to return...
Registered: Mar 2009
From Denmark
Posted February 15, 2012
![avatar](/upload/avatars/2012/02/c8af6f4b92e77180122a320a0d600783c972cc61_t.jpg)