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cataclism: But I would like a clarification on your witched adventure problem. What happens when you try to play when offline?
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budejovice: I made the mistake of trying to play offline when my computer was actually online. It immediately phoned home at launch and tried to run an update on something. Well, unfortunately, where I was staying for the holiday weekend had very slow internet, so the update just hung there. For a half hour. Each time. With no option to enter offline mode. I was able to play after a half hour, though. [With the same install, I can play offline immediately if my computer is not online.]

I may have downloaded the first installer. There was a new one available and Judas claims it was a "bug" and is fixed. But really. This is their own product. They claim to be all about the DRM-free. They didn't bother to test single-player? What happens when ALL of their games come like this?

You. Had. One. Job. GOG.

EDIT: I don't think anyone else sees it my way (outside of some PMs with one of the regulars here), but it was a bit of a gut-punch to have no access to a game that I bought - for the first time in over a decade since I last played Diablo 2 and they had server issues or I had internet issues. As I buy exclusively DRM-free and have really enjoyed my time at GOG, given their public stance on things, it left a very sour taste that's not easily overcome by "we fixed the 'bug.'"
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As the draw of GOG is being a place games are DRM free- with installers/ and the games themselves NOT connecting to the net in any way shape or form pre all this Galaxy Client stuff, GOG needs to really put themselves in the "mindset" of those of us that hate DRM in WHATEVER FORM it may take.
(Hard to put into words so everything will flow, but I see GOG's focus, the purpose of the Galaxy Client maybe not right now but later making GOG more "Steam like", in that it manages installs for the "convenience factor," thereby being attractive to Steam users which cannot grasp the concept of downloading a installer vs doing a on the fly install.

I can only hope that old customers aren't given the shaft in the quest for increased revenue.)

Was the "bug" a oversight, OR a look into the mindset at GOG in which GOG does away with stand-alone installers and Galaxy mimics the STEAM DRM CLIENT and games cannot be installed, nor much else done without logging in to the client?

(What I see happening over the long term as GOG is probably betting a lot on Galaxy is Galaxy Client will be "required" vs "optional" a couple of years down the road.)

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STEAM being "DRM".
Yes STEAM CLIENT is a form of DRM, technicalities aside.

(For those that love STEAM and say it's not please post/PM me with instructions on how I can run STEAM games without it, and make a installer for the game(s) I have legally purchased that will do a "Fresh Install" of such games... without STEAM being present on target PC, nor target PC ever having game on it.)

EDIT: I am aware that a certain percentage of STEAM games once installed can be copied outside the STEAM directory, and or they can be transferred to another PC.
My experience in doing so is 80% of the games didn't run so the reference to a "installer" is towards games which will NOT run in such a manner, a CEG exe being used, and or other files or registry settings are needed.
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Post edited December 08, 2014 by WeAreNotAlone
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WeAreNotAlone: (For those that love STEAM and say it's not please post/PM me with instructions on how I can run STEAM games without it, and make a installer for the game(s) I have legally purchased that will do a "Fresh Install" of such games... without STEAM being present on target PC, nor target PC ever having game on it.)
Or instead of having someone do the work for you you can just read up on past discussion on the topic. Posts by Jmich tend to be informative.
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budejovice: ... I'm client free since 2003!!! :)
(I can't help but see you marching with this on a placard.)
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budejovice: I haven't bothered to install the updated version, since my gaming computer is rarely online and I can access WAG while offline. Reports are that the offline choice is now before the phone home, but I haven't verified.
Well I downloaded the game yesterday then installed and played it on an offline computer and had no issue (except the tutorial video crashing...), so apparently the current version is corrected.
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budejovice: I made the mistake of trying to play offline when my computer was actually online. It immediately phoned home at launch and tried to run an update on something. Well, unfortunately, where I was staying for the holiday weekend had very slow internet, so the update just hung there. For a half hour. Each time. With no option to enter offline mode. I was able to play after a half hour, though. [With the same install, I can play offline immediately if my computer is not online.]

I may have downloaded the first installer. There was a new one available and Judas claims it was a "bug" and is fixed. But really. This is their own product. They claim to be all about the DRM-free. They didn't bother to test single-player? What happens when ALL of their games come like this?

You. Had. One. Job. GOG.

EDIT: I don't think anyone else sees it my way (outside of some PMs with one of the regulars here), but it was a bit of a gut-punch to have no access to a game that I bought - for the first time in over a decade since I last played Diablo 2 and they had server issues or I had internet issues. As I buy exclusively DRM-free and have really enjoyed my time at GOG, given their public stance on things, it left a very sour taste that's not easily overcome by "we fixed the 'bug.'"
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WeAreNotAlone: .
As the draw of GOG is being a place games are DRM free- with installers/ and the games themselves NOT connecting to the net in any way shape or form pre all this Galaxy Client stuff, GOG needs to really put themselves in the "mindset" of those of us that hate DRM in WHATEVER FORM it may take.
(Hard to put into words so everything will flow, but I see GOG's focus, the purpose of the Galaxy Client maybe not right now but later making GOG more "Steam like", in that it manages installs for the "convenience factor," thereby being attractive to Steam users which cannot grasp the concept of downloading a installer vs doing a on the fly install.

I can only hope that old customers aren't given the shaft in the quest for increased revenue.)

Was the "bug" a oversight, OR a look into the mindset at GOG in which GOG does away with stand-alone installers and Galaxy mimics the STEAM DRM CLIENT and games cannot be installed, nor much else done without logging in to the client?

(What I see happening over the long term as GOG is probably betting a lot on Galaxy is Galaxy Client will be "required" vs "optional" a couple of years down the road.)

********************
STEAM being "DRM".
Yes STEAM CLIENT is a form of DRM, technicalities aside.

(For those that love STEAM and say it's not please post/PM me with instructions on how I can run STEAM games without it, and make a installer for the game(s) I have legally purchased that will do a "Fresh Install" of such games... without STEAM being present on target PC, nor target PC ever having game on it.)

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I agree, had to get a refund on Witcher Adventure game due to the non-optional Client install. It would be nice to think of GOG as the moral champion on DRM, reality is they are a business and need to make money. It would also be nice to think we are all up to date on privacy, know the dangers of intrusive software etc., but the reality most of us are spoilt kids who refuse to wait for a game, or do anything themselves to get it working.
I note a whole truck load of indie games turn up this week, which isn't a bad thing, I have several myself which are enjoyable. The downside being the constant need for patching, DLCs etc. which then make a client an attractive option to avoid manually organizing things yourself.
So regardless of what we think/would like to think, the simple truth is that Galaxy is here, people will want it for multiplayer. My hope is that this component will be split out from the game binaries in the future so that the client is completely separate from the game, this would appease both sides.
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WeAreNotAlone: (For those that love STEAM and say it's not please post/PM me with instructions on how I can run STEAM games without it, and make a installer for the game(s) I have legally purchased that will do a "Fresh Install" of such games... without STEAM being present on target PC, nor target PC ever having game on it.)
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Pheace: Or instead of having someone do the work for you you can just read up on past discussion on the topic. Posts by Jmich tend to be informative.
i've read some posts from jmich and nowhere does he provide a way to do what he asks. He even admits the distribution method on Steam is not DRM-free, only the execution of the game is.

In order to install a DRM-free game on Steam you still need Steam for downloading it and installing it. If Steam closes or for some reason you lose access to your account you will never be able to install that game again, and copying the game files from a computer to another DOES NOT WORK. It's more complex than that.

This is a fundamental limitation that IS DRM in everyway, and there's really no way to deny this simple fact.

You want to prove Steam is DRM-free? Provide a way to install a game on a new computer, without Steam. You can't.
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Pheace: Or instead of having someone do the work for you you can just read up on past discussion on the topic. Posts by Jmich tend to be informative.
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cataclism: i've read some posts from jmich and nowhere does he provide a way to do what he asks. He even admits the distribution method on Steam is not DRM-free, only the execution of the game is.

In order to install a DRM-free game on Steam you still need Steam for downloading it and installing it. If Steam closes or for some reason you lose access to your account you will never be able to install that game again, and copying the game files from a computer to another DOES NOT WORK. It's more complex than that.

This is a fundamental limitation that IS DRM in everyway, and there's really no way to deny this simple fact.

You want to prove Steam is DRM-free? Provide a way to install a game on a new computer, without Steam. You can't.
old disucssion, really. You could also argue that gOg distribution is also DRM, as you need to log into your account to download the installer (and use third party software to download). When you have downloaded, you can move the installer to an offline PC an install.

With Steam you need to log into the Steam client to download the game, when you have downloaded you can (even zip the game if you want) and move the game to an offline PC.

The only difference is that gOg deliver an installer, and Steam "as is" - the value of each is in the eye of the beholder and not really part of DRM free or not.
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cataclism: In order to install a DRM-free game on Steam you still need Steam for downloading it and installing it. If Steam closes or for some reason you lose access to your account you will never be able to install that game again, and copying the game files from a computer to another DOES NOT WORK. It's more complex than that.
Read more of his posts and you'd know this isn't a valid argument. Copying the game files works fine for most of those games (No installer needed). Even in the rare cases where it wouldn't, you have everything you need to get it working in the folder the game is installed.

Simply put, you're wrong. You're too hung up on the idea of an installer. Copy folder to another computer, run the exe. Play.

ou want to prove Steam is DRM-free? Provide a way to install a game on a new computer, without Steam. You can't.
Since you wanted proof, I just download Space Rangers, one of the games on the DRM-free list, on my computer. Copied the folder over LAN to my girlfriends computer, and started it up (on that computer). Worked just fine.
Post edited December 04, 2014 by Pheace
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cataclism: i've read some posts from jmich and nowhere does he provide a way to do what he asks. He even admits the distribution method on Steam is not DRM-free, only the execution of the game is.

In order to install a DRM-free game on Steam you still need Steam for downloading it and installing it. If Steam closes or for some reason you lose access to your account you will never be able to install that game again, and copying the game files from a computer to another DOES NOT WORK. It's more complex than that.

This is a fundamental limitation that IS DRM in everyway, and there's really no way to deny this simple fact.

You want to prove Steam is DRM-free? Provide a way to install a game on a new computer, without Steam. You can't.
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amok: old disucssion, really. You could also argue that gOg distribution is also DRM, as you need to log into your account to download the installer (and use third party software to download). When you have downloaded, you can move the installer to an offline PC an install.

With Steam you need to log into the Steam client to download the game, when you have downloaded you can (even zip the game if you want) and move the game to an offline PC.

The only difference is that gOg deliver an installer, and Steam "as is" - the value of each is in the eye of the beholder and not really part of DRM free or not.
Not the same thing. Obviously you need an account on GOG to download the installer (we are talking about digital distribution after all) but you don't need to connect to GOG servers every time you need to install a game. The installer is standalone forever and ever. Even if GOG goes bankrupt in the future you won't lose access to your game (unless someone doesn't download the installer and store it, which would be kind of dumb).

@Pheace: I will investigate this further, but that thread is 50 pages long, that's a lot of posts to read. Frankly I've been looking for a way to backup DRM-free games on steam and I've been unsuccessful so far. But if what you say is true I'd be glad to be honest.
Post edited December 04, 2014 by cataclism
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cataclism: [...]
In order to install a DRM-free game on Steam you still need Steam for downloading it and installing it. If Steam closes or for some reason you lose access to your account you will never be able to install that game again, and copying the game files from a computer to another DOES NOT WORK. It's more complex than that.
[...]
Sorry, I missed this bit.

Actually, it does work. I have done it several times myself. Even put DRM free Steam games on memory sticks and run them from there.
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cataclism: Not the same thing. Obviously you need an account on GOG to download the installer (we are talking about digital distribution after all) but you don't need to connect to GOG servers every time you need to install a game. The installer is standalone forever and ever. Even if GOG goes bankrupt in the future you won't lose access to your game (unless someone doesn't download the installer and store it, which would be kind of dumb).

I will investigate this further, but that thread is 50 pages long, that's a lot of posts to read. Frankly I've been looking for a way to backup DRM-free games on steam and I've been unsuccessful so far.
Edited my above post in case you missed it.
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amok: old disucssion, really. You could also argue that gOg distribution is also DRM, as you need to log into your account to download the installer (and use third party software to download). When you have downloaded, you can move the installer to an offline PC an install.

With Steam you need to log into the Steam client to download the game, when you have downloaded you can (even zip the game if you want) and move the game to an offline PC.

The only difference is that gOg deliver an installer, and Steam "as is" - the value of each is in the eye of the beholder and not really part of DRM free or not.
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cataclism: Not the same thing. Obviously you need an account on GOG to download the installer (we are talking about digital distribution after all) but you don't need to connect to GOG servers every time you need to install a game. The installer is standalone forever and ever. Even if GOG goes bankrupt in the future you won't lose access to your game (unless someone doesn't download the installer and store it, which would be kind of dumb).

I will investigate this further, but that thread is 50 pages long, that's a lot of posts to read. Frankly I've been looking for a way to backup DRM-free games on steam and I've been unsuccessful so far.
disclaimer - I do not backup any games (Steam or gOg or others, that what I have the cloud for...). But that being said, I have moved games downloaded with Steam onto computers not using Steam (or indeed not even being online) and played them from there without any problems. Find Jmich's posts towards the end of the thread, he has several there that are very helpful.
Post edited December 04, 2014 by amok
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cataclism: Not the same thing. Obviously you need an account on GOG to download the installer (we are talking about digital distribution after all) but you don't need to connect to GOG servers every time you need to install a game. The installer is standalone forever and ever. Even if GOG goes bankrupt in the future you won't lose access to your game (unless someone doesn't download the installer and store it, which would be kind of dumb).

I will investigate this further, but that thread is 50 pages long, that's a lot of posts to read. Frankly I've been looking for a way to backup DRM-free games on steam and I've been unsuccessful so far.
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Pheace: Edited my above post in case you missed it.
Danm, will try this as soon as I get the chance.
high rated
Hi Everyone,

I'd like to take a moment to clear up the situation. Yes, right now there are two games on GOG.com (The Witcher Adventure Game and Alien vs. Predator) that come bundled with our Galaxy Launcher application.

The reason behind this decision is that those two games use Galaxy multiplayer, and for it to work we need to provide a companion application to handle user authentication and auto-updating.

Eventually, those responsibilities will be handled by the Galaxy Client, which will be a separate, standalone and OPTIONAL application.

Once the Client is released, game installers will not bundle any additional launchers or other applications.

So the current situation (a launcher app bundled with your game installer) is only temporary, as we didn't want to provide the launcher as a separate download.

If you don't plan to play in multiplayer mode you can uninstall the launcher app and launch the game directly (the launcher is also optional, but it comes bundled with the game installer).
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Venom: Hi Everyone,

I'd like to take a moment to clear up the situation. Yes, right now there are two games on GOG.com (The Witcher Adventure Game and Alien vs. Predator) that come bundled with our Galaxy Launcher application.

The reason behind this decision is that those two games use Galaxy multiplayer, and for it to work we need to provide a companion application to handle user authentication and auto-updating.

Eventually, those responsibilities will be handled by the Galaxy Client, which will be a separate, standalone and OPTIONAL application.

Once the Client is released, game installers will not bundle any additional launchers or other applications.

So the current situation (a launcher app bundled with your game installer) is only temporary, as we didn't want to provide the launcher as a separate download.

If you don't plan to play in multiplayer mode you can uninstall the launcher app and launch the game directly (the launcher is also optional, but it comes bundled with the game installer).
aren't you glad now that your hand was forced to release Original Sin early, and not with with the Galaxy release :)