Neither am I and also why are you asking muttly13 about my logic?? Wouldn't the thing to do be to ask me if you think you might be twisting my logic? From the example you made one post earlier it seems like there is indeed something you didn't understand from what I wrote. But why ask muttly13 the one who is trying to get a lynch going on me if my logic is twisted? Or am I just like muttly13 not sure what your actually asking?


No, it was not. You might have meant it like that or you might now. But what you wrote means that I hammered one I knew was town. Which is false. This might be a honest mistake in wording, but to me it sounds like a way to make me appear more scummy.

Power is running out, I'll keep it short...

Your not answering the question: You didn't comment on Itai, even though he was first to vote. You ignored everyone of my responses, calling it dodging then admitting that its not.
I have already told you several times what I meant with the post and why I acted as I did. Thats about it for your information thing.
Hysterical fashion, no. Its how I am at a discussion. Taking apart the other persons silly arguments and stating my own reasons for acting as I did. And when your post is reeking to me of being a scum desperate to get me lynched for some odd reason, then I react by calling you out on it. And if you honestly call it a hysterical post then you haven't looked up the word: Hysterical: marked by excessive or uncontrollable emotion; "hysterical laugh". If I acted without reason you might call it that. But simply stating why I did what and why I believe your accusation is wrong, is not hysterical. Neither is calling it scummy when you claim a 100% certain scum tell and doesn't vote on it, later to excuse it with: I wanted his response, since you yourself wrote in response to Robbeasy that he was answering on my behalf so I didn't have to respond... that doesn't sound like someone waiting for a reply, that sounds like a scum who doesn't want to be seen as the one doing the marking. And now, well your in shit deep. And to me several people, most obvious to me: Itai has been marked by your actions as well. Would make for a easy mafia game to get two scums already, but well depends on who people believe. I personally hope they see how you act and put two and two together, some already did.

And there my power ran out.. So this got a bit delayed, power is back now though.

And I acted upon the info, but yea, as joe said - I didn't fish for his role. I noticed what had occurred, I commented on it and then I continued with my action before the deadline lynch, to see if I could get some more reaction from stuart in order to draw a better conclusion about him, as he at that time was the one I had noted as the most scummy due to his reaction. However you changed that completely with your 3 posts and as such I acted upon the information I got from those 3 posts to judge from, as already said: Nothing in the lynch nor the kill meant that stuart was in the clear nor that he was scum. And its not evening actions, are you talking about night actions? Those are rarely revealed without good reason, are you talking about the lynch or the night kill? Please do tell me what you gain from it that is so informative that it deems a vote on stuart scummy?

Gotta say, that part there makes no sense... Your saying that I should be aware that there is power roles in a mafia game and thus I would wait for stuart to claim?? Without putting any pressure on him?? How do you imagine I can press stuart for info while at the same time not voting on him? Putting a vote on someone in a mafia game is a well known way to apply pressure and was my whole point about doing it. The fact that your making your own assumptions makes no sense. And you have already stated that another "scummy aspect" of me is not to act upon information gained from the nightkill/lynch yet you state that I used the knowledge that Zchinque was town to point the finger at stuart? How does that add up in your beautifully created mess of contradictions and weak arguments?

Well, I pretty much said much of this already, but few appears to read it. Maybe its too long - but heck I need to explain it and someone needs to start judging on whats actually going on instead of just saying: muttly13 has a short post I've managed to read, it makes no sense and his argument is terrible, but I gotta say that muttly13 leans town and red baron is scum..even after I pointed out how weak an argument muttly13 has... Great? Why? I would be very very very pleased to hear someone try to actually respond to any of the stuff I've been writing, so far only joe appears to have caught on some of what, Vitek appears from his last post to not have read anything of mine, muttly13 might have read it/might not - in any case he doesn't acknowledge it, Itai I am not sure about, mostly due to not understanding what he is talking about with the logic twist. Pazzer has clearly started to read my stuff (which I like..) and nmillar haven't said anything at all to it.. same for Orryrro (where is he even? Did my WOT kill him?), Robbeasy seemed to get the gist of the situation earlier, but haven't said anything either.

I might come off as a bit pissed and sorry about that - the power shortage didn't help. But I put a lot of time into writing these post and looking at what others have been doing. Also had to re-write several of them including partly this one, due to failures of the computer/or power as in the case here. And yet I don't see any indication that its truly being read? I am not getting any arguments against it? I got one response to one thing in it - I got none disagreeing while stating why, I got none agreeing either. And muttly13 doesn't even give a damn and that apparently works wonders - just ignore your opponent and keep pressing with accusation that will work... But yea, I guess I know made another huge post that I'll hope someone will try to read... and then please react to it, shoot down my argument if you find something that means it doesn't stick, agree if your opinion/evidence supports it, do something. I never been as happy as to when joe corrected something, showing he at least had read that part of the WOT. Thats what I liked about Twilightbard in mafia 9, he clearly responded to it and so did others. But maybe people in here are just a bit too busy with other stuff, and fair enough. As long as when you then comment one something, please actually read what your commenting on. Bet this post is too long for one post again...yes it was. And again, no offense meant, its just slightly discouraging.

A last note in reaction to Pazzer.

Thanks a lot! You kinda made my day at least in mafia with that post. Good to see some response to what I wrote, even though I know its just the beginning of my WOT, its still very nice to see that your indeed doing your closer read of it.

Just a few quick responses to your questions - without qoutes:

I agree, most of posts is mostly the same, as its mostly the same explanation to muttly's reoccurring accusation. Though I tend to make it long to point out the flaws and simply because I get caught in the argument I am making. The new stuff is mostly new musings over muttly13's actions.

Yea, and interesting choice of words indeed, nah. I was mostly just making an intro with some random possibilities, and if I recall correct I might have been thinking about the whole night kill theory I talked about - how that makes it something I know, I can't really say or it might have been something different completely different I had in mind at that time. I see how it comes of as odd -> Note to self, don't make sarcastic introductions.

The part about me saying Muttly13's has a different knowledge then I, is due to him calling it a contradiction that I assume a night kill to happen and its also the one where I got stuarts post mixed into it by error, which further made me believe that Muttly13 was saying that a nightkill wasn't necessarily going to happen, so I pondered at why he was hinting that (the only way I can see it make sense) might not occur. Since he did so after the night-kill did indeed occur I started to wonder if that meant that he knew that we didn't have a night-kill. But its mostly a far fetched theory, mostly due to it being an attempt at interpreting what he was talking about.

Good point with the last one, missed that when I was sad about Vitek not reading my posts, so since he appears to have read at least those, I am at a loss as to why I would get the idea that my case against muttly13 was void due to me mistaking who wrote about prophesying (Is that the right word)

Anyway thanks again for acting upon some of my post Pazzer.

Just a quick note:

Twilightbard has replaced Orryyrro.

@ Red_Baron - I will be commenting on what you said, you DO give people rather a lot to digest, you know..;o)

RL is taking up all my time at the moment - that horrible thing called work. Hopefully have some reaction to the ongoing debate by end of day...

You know, it's so nicely written, handwriting is nice, word order is good, all paragraphs have charm and overally it makes good aesthetic impression.
Or maybe I like it's content and unlike some others I think there is merit in his posts. I have to confess, though, that I haven't read his more recent posts so far. :-)

@everyone; Does someone has some reads on Robbeasy? I discovered I am unable to make any reads on him. Even of Orry, I was able to form some opinion but not about Rob.

@red baron: what do you mean by "WOT" please? It makes a little bit of that difficult to follow not knowing.

Lolz, just mention Twilightbard once and he will be there. Nice haha. Welcome to the game Twilightbard. Though now it will be even tougher for me to keep the games apart.

Yea, I follow that one :) My good fortune that I am an extreme speed reader myself, making it take very little time for me to read posts, however also that do make a mis-read from time to time. And yea, I do write a lot more than intended :) It was mostly the annoyance of losing my posts twice, before finally being able to posts it after power came back that was speaking (imagine a smiley here, but if I recall correct no smilies are allowed?).

"WOT" is "Wall of Text". ;-)

Also welcome Twilight!

Welcome abard, Twilight.....

That never get's old!
;-}

I was referring to post #429
Could you please clarify your meaning there? I think I got it right and it was Red_Baron who twisted it, but maybe it was the other way around.

No. I was saying that you shouldn't have jumped on Stuart on the 2nd day, because he (Stuart) could be used as a backup lynch in case you (Red_Baron) didn't find any other suitable target. At least, that is what I think muttly meant.

Haven't heard anything from you in a while....

Thanks Vitek.

I was reading back earlier and noticed this little gem from Red Baron.

Coupled with this example of the prevalent opinion on why Zchinque was NK'd

It's kind of making me think, Red Baron has certainly become much more "vocal" (maybe the correct word should be postal?) since the demise of Zchinque, perhaps he is less afraid someone?

I know exactly how you feel; a 9 - 6 job and a 2 year old gives you very little time for anything else!

Pretty neutral if you ask me, but that's probably related to being busy at work in the post quoted above.

As previously mentioned, my main suspects are itai.sharim and Red_Baron. They're both currently at each other's throats, throwing accusations about deliberate confusion all over the place - it just seems like they're trying too hard to dismiss any link between them. I'm convinced that at least one of them is mafia; my gut feeling is telling me itai.sharim is, but I'm not so sure about Red_Baron. I would vote for either though.

And thats the argument that muttly13 to my delight is agreeing with. How good to hear. So basically your saying, I should not have voted for stuart as he would be an easy lynch later. Hence save him until we need someone to lynch, apparently also someone to lynch without reason, due to you calling him a back-up lynch and stuart having only appeared a little scummy and lately even townish, should be that lynch. Now thats not what I should do and never would do. The idea for town is to lynch scum, not to lynch someone just to lynch them. Hence the lynch should be based upon reason. Meaning that when I vote for stuart at the beginning of day1 I am, just like others putting pressure on him in order to get a feel of his alignment judged from his reactions. However when this is cut-short due to the deadline, I go back to doing what I was doing before the lynch on day 1. I try to get some more info from my at that time, most scummy one (With Zhenique and Crazy being town). So I vote to apply pressure (And I recall you saying that I should apply pressure on him - when called upon that.. you didn't answer). Now, your reaction to this, is very surprising in my eyes, with you coming out with 3 posts all stating that I am scum due to voting for stuart and because I mentioned that I hoped town would learn something useful from the otherwise pointless lynch and assumed following nightkill (which did indeed also occur). This very very odd accusation, immediately jumps you from leaning town/no read, to be on the top of my list. Several posts follows, you with changing arguments and the same odd one being applied, and I who keep calling on you on it. Never to hear any reaction or answer to me questions. When you then finally directly answer to my calling,, its just that: I won't answer..... Well thats interesting. You won't answer direct questions to your posts being contradicting? You won't answer questions/theories to posts I've made that might be faulty? You don't want to answer direct questions as to why your ignoring the obvious? For no reason other than stating that all I've written is rehashed to fit my needs? Have you even read it? Have you hmmm considered arguing against it if its so badly rehashed from the original meaning? I guess not, judging from your posts.

And yes, a few of the others who are not directly involved in your crappy argument has indeed found two flaws out of several of my arguments. One being that I got a post mixed up and another where a flawed vote count gave me an impression that I wasn't last to vote. Both of which has been explained.. and one of which does any major impact on any of my arguments against you and against your accusations.

Or maybe you weren't here at all on day 1 and you would know why the lynch happened as it did. Meaning that the only reason Crazy was lynched as he did was because he was hardcore lurking at a time where we had a desperate need to get a lynch before a deadline. Hence whomever hammered him, in this case me - Cannot be judged on the action to be either scummy or town, as the hammer would have fallen anyway, from any of us who agreed that a lynch was needed. If you look back you'll notice several drop their own targets to vote for Crazy. I did the same, thats the end of that one.

However, your comparing that to your argument. And that doesn't add up. As far as I can see, your saying that because I hammered someone, that excuses you from not voting for me when you believed with 100% certainty that I was scum. How much sense does that make? Its two completely different things.


Good to see you agree with the scummy way of thinking..

Really looking forward to when whomever is also town out there finishes reading my WOT and muttly13 is lynched, being scum and then followed closely by the other one I believe at the moment to be his buddy: Itai, whom has been so oddly avoided by muttly13 and whom have only slightly mentioned some concerns, most of which leading back to muttly13 being correct in his accusation. But hey, as long as they kill themselves with mostly muttly13's crappy argument, I don't really care if they kill be first and then instantly get lynched or what they do. I win the game as long as town survives, and with 2 dead scums, chances are good.

But dream time is over.. shoot down more of my posts, agree with them - have fun. Off to eat dinner.