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General discussion (archive)Foreign Transaction Fee for Credit Card(99 posts)(99 posts)
(99 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted December 28, 2013
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coolVariable: Well, I really don't care what some douchebags on some forum think.

Other, more ";respectable" webstores have no problem warning out of state customers about potential fees.

Guess I will just be cancelling my orders with GOG.
It's not that hard to get these games elsewhere without scammer tactics like this.

PS: any half-decent programmer would also be able to add the warning on a country by country basis.
1.) That works both ways.

2.) Show us examples of leading retailers doing this. I won't hold my breath waiting for that.

3.) Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

4.) Yes they could but it would be stupid to do that when this only affects a small fraction of customers in total, US or otherwise. I know this is going to hurt but the world does not turn around you.
Post edited December 28, 2013 by dirtyharry50
Posted December 28, 2013
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Weclock: There's no need to snowball my posts
What does that mean?
Posted December 28, 2013
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HypersomniacLive: Let's agree to disagree.
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hedwards: The point is that it's buried where people aren't likely to see it. And unless you know it's there, you don't know to look for it.

It comes up from time to time and it's just ridiculous that GOG can't be bothered to put the disclaimer some place where people are actually going to see it.
Imho, it's a false debate. Banks happen to multiply fees on any and everything. Do US brick and mortar shops display warnings saying "please verify that your bank account is sufficiently provisionned before purchasing as this may or may not generate bank fees ". I assume they don't. When a consumer uses a specific payment method, he/she should be aware of the conditions and fees that derive from his choice. So, the best place to put a warning on these fees would be on the plastic of the credit card itself " Using this card generate fees. Foreign transactions may involve additional costs" . How comes that banks don't do it and hide this somewhere in the fineprints ?

On a sidenote, the poster that dug this thread from a well deserved rest has either a troll-like attitude, either an extremely US centric view of the world.
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dirtyharry50: 3.) Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

4.) Yes they could but it would be stupid to do that when this only affects a small fraction of customers in total, US or otherwise. I know this is going to hurt but the world does not turn around you.
Well said.
Post edited December 28, 2013 by Phc7006
Posted December 28, 2013
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Phc7006: Imho, it's a false debate. Banks happen to multiply fees on any and everything. Do US brick and mortar shops display warnings saying "please verify that your bank account is sufficiently provisionned before purchasing as this may or may not generate bank fees ". I assume they don't. When a consumer uses a specific payment method, he/she should be aware of the conditions and fees that derive from his choice. So, the best place to put a warning on these fees would be on the plastic of the credit card itself " Using this card generate fees. Foreign transactions may involve additional costs" . How comes that banks don't do it and hide this somewhere in the fineprints ?

On a sidenote, the poster that dug this thread from a well deserved rest has either a troll-like attitude, either an extremely US centric view of the world.
Well said.
To be fair I saw in the US gas stations which showed different prices for those paying with a card and those with cash.
Posted December 28, 2013
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ShadowWulfe: Wait, hold up. So let me get this straight. There are other people besides Americans?

My mind is just completely blown here.
Pfft, don't fall for that crap. Everybody knows that nobody exists outside our country. There's just empty land with resources we can take when we need them. Now, let's get back to enjoying life in our floating cities!

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Phc7006: On a sidenote, the poster that dug this thread from a well deserved rest has either a troll-like attitude, either an extremely US centric view of the world.
Without defending OP directly, I will say that I can at least understand his surprise. This site is in English and all prices are in USD. It's at least FAIR to assume this is a US site. even though it isn't. Further, there's a general policy of merchants here in the US to absorb costs when dealing with customers (gas stations excepted). Not only that, many card companies offer rebates and discounts, incentives and frequent shopping benefits for using their card. Thus, it's surprising to suddenly find an extra charge has been tacked on to a card purchase. OP was incorrectly mad at GOG instead of his carrier, but it shows how rare it is for us. Of course, they can charge outrageous interest and do other things, but... whatever. I'm tired, I don't know what I'm saying anymore.

Flying cities!!
Post edited December 28, 2013 by BlueMooner
Posted December 28, 2013
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Phc7006: Imho, it's a false debate. Banks happen to multiply fees on any and everything. Do US brick and mortar shops display warnings saying "please verify that your bank account is sufficiently provisionned before purchasing as this may or may not generate bank fees ". I assume they don't. When a consumer uses a specific payment method, he/she should be aware of the conditions and fees that derive from his choice. So, the best place to put a warning on these fees would be on the plastic of the credit card itself " Using this card generate fees. Foreign transactions may involve additional costs" . How comes that banks don't do it and hide this somewhere in the fineprints ?

On a sidenote, the poster that dug this thread from a well deserved rest has either a troll-like attitude, either an extremely US centric view of the world.
Well said.
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blotunga: To be fair I saw in the US gas stations which showed different prices for those paying with a card and those with cash.
This is so, but that is the retailer charging different prices. The situation with GOG and fees on US credit cards is not similar. GOG is not charging a different price. The credit card holder's bank is charging a fee for making a "foreign transaction". The contract that allows this is not between GOG and anybody else, it is between the customer and the customer's bank.
Posted December 28, 2013
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blotunga: To be fair I saw in the US gas stations which showed different prices for those paying with a card and those with cash.
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cjrgreen: This is so, but that is the retailer charging different prices. The situation with GOG and fees on US credit cards is not similar. GOG is not charging a different price. The credit card holder's bank is charging a fee for making a "foreign transaction". The contract that allows this is not between GOG and anybody else, it is between the customer and the customer's bank.
And most likely the retailers do this pricing discrimination precisely because the credit card emitters, instead of charging a fee to the customer, will impose some fee on the seller himself. So basically the seller/retailer is ensuring his profit margin is same whatever transaction.

Same trick governments do with payroll income tax, where a portion of it is not even in your gross salary, just charged from the employer directly.
Posted December 28, 2013
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BlueMooner: This site is in English and all prices are in USD. It's at least FAIR to assume this is a US site.
Yes and no. On one side you're right. If you're an US citizen, visiting an english website with USD prices, it's very well possible that you assume it's an US company. But on the other hand: imagine GOG in Polish with Złoty prices oO Not a good idea. English with Euro prices would work, but... The US Dollar has always been the currency of choice and English has always been the language of choice if you're doing a worldwide business. So... no, USD isn't an indicator where a worldwide operating company is located.

But that's a new (online shopping related) problem for you guys, since you never had to deal with international commerce in the past (maybe job-related, but that's something different). And most big online stores are US companies (amazon, ebay, Steam, iTunes), so there's a big chance that GOG is the first time someone's dealing with a foreign company.
Posted December 28, 2013
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ShadowWulfe: Wait, hold up. So let me get this straight. There are other people besides Americans?

My mind is just completely blown here.
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BlueMooner: Pfft, don't fall for that crap. Everybody knows that nobody exists outside our country. There's just empty land with resources we can take when we need them. Now, let's get back to enjoying life in our floating cities!

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Phc7006: On a sidenote, the poster that dug this thread from a well deserved rest has either a troll-like attitude, either an extremely US centric view of the world.
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BlueMooner: Without defending OP directly, I will say that I can at least understand his surprise. This site is in English and all prices are in USD. It's at least FAIR to assume this is a US site. even though it isn't. Further, there's a general policy of merchants here in the US to absorb costs when dealing with customers (gas stations excepted). Not only that, many card companies offer rebates and discounts, incentives and frequent shopping benefits for using their card. Thus, it's surprising to suddenly find an extra charge has been tacked on to a card purchase. OP was incorrectly mad at GOG instead of his carrier, but it shows how rare it is for us. Of course, they can charge outrageous interest and do other things, but... whatever. I'm tired, I don't know what I'm saying anymore.

Flying cities!!
But what's the other option? GoG has no control over US (or indeed any other) banks. They could charge everyone in Euros, but that's probably going to cause more problems for our cousins across the pond, who probably are a fairly hefty chunk of the userbase (plus I can see now all the people saying "I can't buy in dollars, so I'm going to steam").

Multiple currencies? Then people complain about exchange rates.
Posted December 28, 2013
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BlueMooner: Further, there's a general policy of merchants here in the US to absorb costs when dealing with customers (gas stations excepted). Not only that, many card companies offer rebates and discounts, incentives and frequent shopping benefits for using their card.
I think these are 2 different type of fees. The credit card company charges a small fee for every and any use, and this fee is usually absorbed by the vendor.. And i'm pretty sure that GOG has to absorb it as well. The bank that acts as intermediary between the creadit card company and the end user may charge supplementary fees and both the grounds of those fees and the amount charged varies from bank to bank. It's thus hardly predictible. Yet, it is known that US banks tend to be prone to charge foreign transaction fees. Also, this is something the supplier never sees in the transaction.

Now, what do we have to say, here in Europe ? We buy on GOG in USD and thus for every purchase we pay an exchange rate that includes a bank / credit card company / Paypal exchange fee of +/- 2.5 pc . In the end, both this and the foreign transaction fees are the price we pay for a service ( be it the ability to purchase in USD or tu purchase from a foreign based company ) .

On the other hand, I think it's above all the tone used by the OP , his choice of words and the unbalance between that and the actual prejudiuce that somehow get on the nerves of many posters here.
Posted December 28, 2013
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pds41: But what's the other option? GoG has no control over US (or indeed any other) banks. They could charge everyone in Euros, but that's probably going to cause more problems for our cousins across the pond, who probably are a fairly hefty chunk of the userbase (plus I can see now all the people saying "I can't buy in dollars, so I'm going to steam").

Multiple currencies? Then people complain about exchange rates.
^This. Unfortunate as is, it's the best so far. I loathe steam's regional pricing.
Posted December 28, 2013
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pds41: Multiple currencies? Then people complain about exchange rates.
Not to mention that multiple currencies might end-up in Publishers demanding the enforcement of regional pricing policies ...

edit : ninja'ed by blotunga
Post edited December 28, 2013 by Phc7006
Posted December 28, 2013
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BlueMooner: This site is in English and all prices are in USD. It's at least FAIR to assume this is a US site.
and [url=http://dx.com/]DealExtreme do the same thing, but it's certainly not fair to assume either of those are from the US. (Yes, they allow you to display a different reference currency, but it's all done in US dollars.)

English is the lingua franca and USD is the currency equivalent. Only deviations from this allow any assumptions to be made.
Post edited December 28, 2013 by Pidgeot
Posted December 28, 2013
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cjrgreen: This is so, but that is the retailer charging different prices. The situation with GOG and fees on US credit cards is not similar. GOG is not charging a different price. The credit card holder's bank is charging a fee for making a "foreign transaction". The contract that allows this is not between GOG and anybody else, it is between the customer and the customer's bank.
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Brasas: And most likely the retailers do this pricing discrimination precisely because the credit card emitters, instead of charging a fee to the customer, will impose some fee on the seller himself. So basically the seller/retailer is ensuring his profit margin is same whatever transaction.

Same trick governments do with payroll income tax, where a portion of it is not even in your gross salary, just charged from the employer directly.
Exactly. The issuer charges a commission on credit card transactions. It is collected by the payment network and charged to the retailer in the form of a discount on the value he receives. In the US, this commission is substantial, on the average 2 percent, and as much as 5 percent for small businesses and small transactions.
Posted December 29, 2013
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pds41: But what's the other option? GoG has no control over US (or indeed any other) banks.
I'm not blaming GOG for anything here. Like I said, the OP mistakenly blamed GOG for his own bank's charges. All I was saying was that it's understandable how OP was confused about the nationality of the site. After all, if you don't visit the forum (as OP with 2 rep apparently never did), then how would anybody know this WAS an international site? Yes, just because the site is in English and has USD doesn't mean it is, for a fact, American, but OTOH, why wouldn't one think that?

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Phc7006: On the other hand, I think it's above all the tone used by the OP , his choice of words and the unbalance between that and the actual prejudiuce that somehow get on the nerves of many posters here.
As I said, I wasn't defending the OP. I not only see how he could have come across as entitled, but also how repeated exposure to that, ON TOP of how you have to pay extra charges all the time, can REALLY rub you guys the wrong way. "We pay charges every day and he's bitching about ONE time??"

I was only (was I?) attempting to show he might have been... "surprised" by suddenly incurring "international" charges on a "US" website. Nobody likes to be surprised by extra rules or charges for things.

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Pidgeot: and [url=http://dx.com/]DealExtreme do the same thing, but it's certainly not fair to assume either of those are from the US.
Play-Asia has a foreign name in their address, while the first thing I see at DealExtreme is "Free shipping to US". So there's evidence they're not US. WIthout digging into site TOS, which most people never read, I don't see why an American would NOT assume this is a US site.


Once again, I'm not blaming GOG for anything. If I were to change anything, I might put a message on the checkout page saying "GOG's bank is in Europe. Your bank may add international transaction fees."

FWIW, my card won't even do international charges. I had to make a payment to PayPal, incurring a $3.20 charge to send $100 to the acct, as that's the only way I can buy from GOG.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)Foreign Transaction Fee for Credit Card(99 posts)(99 posts)
(99 posts)