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Isn't he mentioned the same things when they released Demigod ?
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lackoo1111: Isn't he mentioned the same things when they released Demigod ?

Yes. I think Brad has used up his goodwill with that game. People are going to be extremely sceptical about Elemental.
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Navagon: Dare I ask?
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lackoo1111: I try to answer
- Paraddox releasing their games too fast without solving some serious bug issues ( example HoI3)
- bugfixes camouflaged as DLC's
- GamersGate store is still selling games with DRM
- GamersGate 1$=1€ crap

Yeah, the Gamersgate issues you mentioned are no longer their responsibility. As for the bug complaints, I'm sure they're valid unto themselves, but not particularly relevant to the subject of DRM.
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drmlessgames: In all fairness Wardell mentioned that they will support Elemental with lots of patches, and additional content for the next years, and that they aren't going to release any new titles next year because of their full support for Elemental. Not a lot of companies do that these days.

In all fairness, he's shown in the past that you can't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth. Especially as he's just recycling promises that were never kept the last time they were used (i.e., Demigod).
Demigod
a game with a "usefull tutorial"
Valid point, bansama.
However (there's always a but isn't there? ;) ):
While I wasn't around for the release of Galactic Civilizations 2 and bought the Ultimate Edition of the game, I do know it's been supported for several years. So, seeing as that was the last game they developed and they only published Demigod, would the promises not hold even the slightest hint of validity?
As a side-note, it'd be interesting to see the sort of thoughts people have regarding the release condition of Galactic Civilizations 2.
And as a second side-note, the web is really slamming Stardock at the moment regarding Elemental. Myself, apart from the slow start-up issue I mentioned and some sluggishness (in terms of frame-rate), I've not encountered any crashes etc. so... *shrugs* I'm not trying to say I don't believe there aren't any problems though that people are experiencing and I've hardly played through an entire game at this point (nor have I touched the campaign).
The actual start-up problem I've encountered in terms of slow loads is actually quite odd as well. I can move my cursor down to the bottom of the booting up screen and I'll see the cursor change to the Windows one without pressing the alt + tab buttons or anything else. Sometimes, I do have to alt + tab out to get it running as well and it takes a while to get that to work. And sometimes it boots up quite quickly in comparison without trouble. But outside of that, I've not encountered the gameplay issues people reference outside of general sluggishness at times.
Post edited August 25, 2010 by DavidGil
The backlash wouldn't have been bad if he had:
-Made a gamer bill of rights and stuck to it, "2.Gamers shall have the right that games they purchase shall function as designed without technical defects that would materially affect the player experience. This determination shall be made by the player. 3. Gamers shall have the right that their games not require a third-party download manager installed for a game to function."
- Not told a customer to basically fuck off because you aren't important when that person bought the product expecting it to work and on good faith.
-Not Rigging the retail version to NEED the client or play an unfinished product that doesn't work.
- Waited a few more days to release even with the physical copies being out early to minimize outcry as they knew the game wasn't finished.
- Not had this exact scenario happen before with different details (Demigod was completely broken on release, the core game worked but more then 3 or 4 people on GOOD connections and it was 600-700 ping in what is supposed to be a competitive multiplayer game which was blamed on pirates when it was the morons at Gas Powered letting pirates on an already bugged server making it worse). After a rocky release they promised the world, tried to patch but ultimately failed miserably while not releasing any of the promised things outside of the hotfixes.
You can give Stardock the benefit of the doubt with promised support but until I see it long-term they are on my shit-list. Fool me once Stardock, shame on you: Fool me twice Stardock, shame on me. Same logic I apply to Creative Assembly, Piranha Bytes and Obsidian after Empire + Napolean: Total War, Gothic 3, and KotoR 2.
Post edited August 25, 2010 by Whiteblade999
Actually, seeing as you referenced that and it's what I meant (regarding the fuck off thing), Whiteblade, I just noticed he's given a official response about the whole mess:
http://www.gog.com/en/forum/general/elemental_go_on_and_get_your_shinies/140
Post edited August 25, 2010 by DavidGil
I'm glad i didn't buy Elemental.( will wait for the 50% off discount of the fully patched working copy)
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DavidGil: Actually, seeing as you referenced that and it's what I meant (regarding the fuck off thing), Whiteblade, I just noticed he's given a official response about the whole mess:
http://www.gog.com/en/forum/general/elemental_go_on_and_get_your_shinies/140

Your link doesn't work dude. I'll see if I can get it from a google search.
Edit: Here it is.
Post edited August 25, 2010 by Whiteblade999
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DavidGil: Actually, seeing as you referenced that and it's what I meant (regarding the fuck off thing), Whiteblade, I just noticed he's given a official response about the whole mess:
http://www.gog.com/en/forum/general/elemental_go_on_and_get_your_shinies/140
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Whiteblade999: Your link doesn't work dude. I'll see if I can get it from a google search.

Apologies. Silly me.
http://forums.elementalgame.com/392474
Edit: See you got it. Can't believe I copy and pasted the link to this thread here. ;) I think I'll blame it on the Spurs game on the tele and multi-tasking.
Post edited August 25, 2010 by DavidGil
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drmlessgames: In all fairness Wardell mentioned that they will support Elemental with lots of patches, and additional content for the next years, and that they aren't going to release any new titles next year because of their full support for Elemental. Not a lot of companies do that these days.
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bansama: In all fairness, he's shown in the past that you can't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth. Especially as he's just recycling promises that were never kept the last time they were used (i.e., Demigod).

Nailed it. As much as it pains me to say so.
On the topic of the official apology something seems off. He said that the guy was his close friend so why post something like that on a forum as opposed to messaging him somewhere other then a public forum?
Post edited August 25, 2010 by Whiteblade999
Perhaps I'm just an naive due to my lack of experience with Stardock, but it seems like they were sort of screwed by retailers breaking the release date, and while they should have taken an extra week with it, it certainly doesn't help to be forced to release a game early to make sure your DD customers aren't left out in the cold.
Although, that said, I think it's hypocritical to claim that your game has no DRM when it has a patch that's released the first day that fixes many critical bugs (this seems to be a pattern apparent in Stardock's games) that requires the client to update.
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PoSSeSSeDCoW: Perhaps I'm just an naive due to my lack of experience with Stardock, but it seems like they were sort of screwed by retailers breaking the release date, and while they should have taken an extra week with it, it certainly doesn't help to be forced to release a game early to make sure your DD customers aren't left out in the cold.
Although, that said, I think it's hypocritical to claim that your game has no DRM when it has a patch that's released the first day that fixes many critical bugs (this seems to be a pattern apparent in Stardock's games) that requires the client to update.

Dude, anyone who can possibly get away with the "no DRM" line will use it. For crying out loud, Ubi used it :P
But yeah, Stardock got boned. Like I keep trying to say: Stardock didn't really do anything wrong, from a development standpoint. But poor PR and moderating of the forums led to the "catchphrase" if "Stardock sold us a beta!", and most of the online news sites (that apparently didn't get review copies, even though there WERE review copies for at least a week,. at least for some outlets) could only report on that. Which takes the bad PR and makes it snowball.
Do I really trust what Wardell says? Nope. But I really never did. I sort of started taking him with a grain of salt ever since GalCiv2 was "DRM-free" (fun story: There are STILL people who are arguing that it isn't really DRM :p). But I have found that I agree with him on a lot of game development points, and I like his games. So Elemental is still shiny for me.
Also: They didn't do Demigod. They were the publishers for that. So don't hold that one against them.
Also: One other thing to keep in mind.
Future support for Elemental, at its most basic, would be new content and campaigns: All of which is pretty straightforward (I THINK a few people have already started working on basic campaigns). So that is a big plus to the likelihood of seeing it.
Post edited August 25, 2010 by Gundato