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Wishbone: Damn, I was too late. I was just about to bring up the Spore Creature Creator. See, charging customers for demos is not a new idea EA's suddenly had. They already did it long ago.

A version with less features was available on their site for free and buying the CC gave you a discount on the full game.
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Wishbone: Damn, I was too late. I was just about to bring up the Spore Creature Creator. See, charging customers for demos is not a new idea EA's suddenly had. They already did it long ago.
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PoSSeSSeDCoW: A version with less features was available on their site for free and buying the CC gave you a discount on the full game.

IF you bought it from the EA store, and then bought the full game from the EA store as well, yes. However, since EA are so goddamned incompetent, the EA store was the last DD channel to actually start selling the CC, so lots of people (like me) cancelled their orders and bought it from D2D instead.
I then bought the Galactic Edition retail when it came out, so no discount for me. The insult was compounded when it turned out that EA had forgotten to register the Galactic Edition serials with the DRM server.
Sorry, you just really hit a sore spot (or is that Spore spot?). Just don't try to pretend that EA's handling of anything connected to Spore was anything other than horrendous.
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Gundato: Honestly, public betas are just demos with "Well, we might fix that before release". They just use the word "beta" because it makes people want to try it because they can pretend they are involved in game development.

True. But you see, typically, beta testing is not something you pay to do. I know there are exceptions. But those are equally bad jokes. At least in my opinion.
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stonebro: And you know what? There are plenty of people around the world who are stupid enough to bite, hook and string.

Which does make you wonder why Kotick didn't think of it first. After all, exploiting retarded gamers is his forte.
Post edited March 23, 2010 by Navagon
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Gundato: Honestly, public betas are just demos with "Well, we might fix that before release". They just use the word "beta" because it makes people want to try it because they can pretend they are involved in game development.
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Navagon: True. But you see, typically, beta testing is not something you pay to do. I know there are exceptions. But those are equally bad jokes. At least in my opinion.
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stonebro: And you know what? There are plenty of people around the world who are stupid enough to bite, hook and string.

Which does make you wonder why Kotick didn't think of it first. After all, exploiting retarded gamers is his forte.

I dunno. It has pretty much become par for the course to pre-order a game to get "beta" access. So same basic concept.
Plus, technically, Torchlight is an example of this. The singleplayer portion of that (which many of us bought over the past few months :p) was released to increase support, test concepts, and make money for the MMO version (which may or may not end up being a free upgrade). Nobody really freaked out over that.
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Gundato: I dunno. It has pretty much become par for the course to pre-order a game to get "beta" access. So same basic concept.
Plus, technically, Torchlight is an example of this.

You can cancel a pre-order. If you don't like the beta then that only makes your doing so all the more likely. I find it a strange practice for that reason.
As for games being used to fund the development of other games, that is essentially the nature of the industry and indeed any industry.
Post edited March 23, 2010 by Navagon
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Gundato: I dunno. It has pretty much become par for the course to pre-order a game to get "beta" access. So same basic concept.
Plus, technically, Torchlight is an example of this.
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Navagon: You can cancel a pre-order. If you don't like the beta then that only makes your doing so all the more likely. I find it a strange practice for that reason.
As for games being used to fund the development of other games, that is essentially the nature of the industry and indeed any industry.

Cancellation of pre-orders depends on the source. I know that Impulse makes it a policy to not allow refunds based upon betas, so you are stuck with your purchase. I suspect Steam is the same way.
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Gundato: Cancellation of pre-orders depends on the source. I know that Impulse makes it a policy to not allow refunds based upon betas, so you are stuck with your purchase. I suspect Steam is the same way.

Brad and Gabe the gamers friends do that? Surely not!
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Gundato: Cancellation of pre-orders depends on the source. I know that Impulse makes it a policy to not allow refunds based upon betas, so you are stuck with your purchase. I suspect Steam is the same way.

If you pre-order from anywhere that throws consumer rights out of the window regarding pre-orders then I guess you get what you get. But you should always be able to cancel pre-orders at any time.
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Gundato: Cancellation of pre-orders depends on the source. I know that Impulse makes it a policy to not allow refunds based upon betas, so you are stuck with your purchase. I suspect Steam is the same way.
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Navagon: If you pre-order from anywhere that throws consumer rights out of the window regarding pre-orders then I guess you get what you get. But you should always be able to cancel pre-orders at any time.

And it should rain candy and lollypops in happy-town.
Talking about what is currently going on :p. And, to my knowledge, most of the companies that do the whole "pre-order to get in on beta" only do it through methods that mean you can't pre-order and dash without a penalty.
I wrote a response to this but some glitch in the forum software cut it off. I don't feel like typing it again.
Assume it was awesome.
Post edited March 23, 2010 by TheMadSpin
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TheMadSpin: I wrote a response to this but some glitch in the forum software cut it off. I don't feel like typing it again.
Assume it was awesome.

That's a very good point you raise there. It certainly casts a whole new light on the situation and the possible future development ;-)
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TheMadSpin: I wrote a response to this but some glitch in the forum software cut it off. I don't feel like typing it again.
Assume it was awesome.
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Wishbone: That's a very good point you raise there. It certainly casts a whole new light on the situation and the possible future development ;-)

I was hoping for an argument. :-P
Here, I used this as an excuse to finally make a real post on my blog:
http://themadspin.com/?p=23
No comments needed on my music, let's just stick to the gaming.
Post edited March 23, 2010 by TheMadSpin
Buy a demo from EA or a full game from GOG! I say GOG all the way.
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Wishbone: That's a very good point you raise there. It certainly casts a whole new light on the situation and the possible future development ;-)
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TheMadSpin: I was hoping for an argument. :-P

Oh, I'm sorry, but this is praise. You'll want room 2B, just down the hall.
Sorry, I'm an avid Monty Python fan, I couldn't help myself.
In all seriousness though, I think you're missing the point. Your comparison with BF1943 falls flat because of one simple thing: BF1943 wasn't a demo. It was a very small game with very limited features and hence a low price. But what EA want's to start charging for are true demos, meaning they will be followed shortly after by a full game at the full price, which they then also expect people to pay. Basically, what they plan to do sounds like simply raising the price of their games by 30%. I can fully understand that people are unhappy about that.
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Wishbone: In all seriousness though, I think you're missing the point. Your comparison with BF1943 falls flat because of one simple thing: BF1943 wasn't a demo. It was a very small game with very limited features and hence a low price.

Except that in the story they use Battlefield 1943 as an example of what they're talking about and they've said specifically that they're not going to charge for traditional demos.