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General discussion (archive)"Don't tase me *croak*"(47 posts)(47 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted May 07, 2011
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hedwards: A taser is a relatively low risk tool when somebody starts wigging out like that. And definitely a lot safer than if you've got to go one on one.
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wpegg: They're cops! If they can't go one on one in a police station, then what chance to they stand anywhere else? We don't have such liberal use of tazers in the UK, as such we resort to the old fashioned tactic of a big guy with a stick. That actually proves a lot less lethal than some fancy science gizmos (except when we got a psycho officer who beat up an old lady, but that was an isolated incident).
Tasers are rarely fatal. And it's not necessarily the case that sending somebody in with a big stick is a better solution to the problem. You can also accidentally hit somebody in such a way as to severely injure or kill, probably in similarly low rates.

I was going to make a comment about the UK, and it's attitudes towards crime, but figured it was way below the belt.
Posted May 07, 2011
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wpegg: They're cops! If they can't go one on one in a police station, then what chance to they stand anywhere else? We don't have such liberal use of tazers in the UK, as such we resort to the old fashioned tactic of a big guy with a stick. That actually proves a lot less lethal than some fancy science gizmos (except when we got a psycho officer who beat up an old lady, but that was an isolated incident).
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hedwards: Tasers are rarely fatal. And it's not necessarily the case that sending somebody in with a big stick is a better solution to the problem. You can also accidentally hit somebody in such a way as to severely injure or kill, probably in similarly low rates.

I was going to make a comment about the UK, and it's attitudes towards crime, but figured it was way below the belt.
Go for it, we're ready for those below the belt punches, it's how we fight nowadays.

My point though was that the police officers in the cell were in a position of power. Realistically they didn't need to use a Tazer, they had the numbers, and the strength, if they can't control a situation in their own cells without resorting to weapons then they are not sufficiently trained. We very rarely need a stick.
Post edited May 07, 2011 by wpegg
Posted May 07, 2011
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wpegg: Realistically they didn't need to use a Tazer, they had the numbers, and the strength, if they can't control a situation in their own cells without resorting to weapons then they are not sufficiently trained. We very rarely need a stick.
I didn't read that they tried pepper spray first either. In a tight spot it can be a bitch to use -- you're just as likely to get your partner as the criminal if you're all on him -- but still. It just sucks that instances like this make some people tend to say "all cops = eeeeeeevil!"
Posted May 07, 2011
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wpegg: Realistically they didn't need to use a Tazer, they had the numbers, and the strength, if they can't control a situation in their own cells without resorting to weapons then they are not sufficiently trained. We very rarely need a stick.
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nondeplumage: I didn't read that they tried pepper spray first either. In a tight spot it can be a bitch to use -- you're just as likely to get your partner as the criminal if you're all on him -- but still. It just sucks that instances like this make some people tend to say "all cops = eeeeeeevil!"
I must congratulate you on the consistency of your arguments. As usual I have no idea which side you're on. Cops aren't evil, no-one has said they are, however use of a Tazer on inmates in unessecary and in my opinion risks being considered torture. Pepper spray was tried in the UK, and it killed someone (ironically in a custody when he was aggressive), so we stopped using it.
Posted May 07, 2011
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hedwards: Cops don't shoot to wound, ever.
It's a bit sad if that is really the case in the US. Here they showed on the news quite few months ago that a cop was chasing a couple of burglars, shot 2 warning rounds in the air, the shot one of the burglars in the leg. That's more or less reasonable.

And they really don't explain that tasers can be dangerous. At least that's the only explanation I can find for some of the lax use of tasers. Cause some of the use you see... I mean if you search the net you can find quite a few videos of 4-5 cops tasing 1 guy. Come on, if a group of trained police officers can't take down one individual without the use of tasers then maybe they are not cut out for this job. They're supposed to have some sort of hand-to-hand combat training. Even without any training 4-5 cops against 1 criminal, unless that 1 guy is some sort of martial artist master, they should take him down without a problem.
Post edited May 07, 2011 by Aningan
Posted May 07, 2011
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Aningan: It's a bit sad if that is really the case in the US. Here they showed on the news quite few months ago that a cop was chasing a couple of burglars, shot 2 warning rounds in the air, the shot one of the burglars in the leg. That's more or less reasonable.
You shoot to kill or you never threaten to shoot at all. The ways in which that cop fucked up, no matter how well the outcome in that instance, means he should have been fired immediately after. Shot two warning rounds in the air? Aiming for the leg? Jesus, this isn't television. Physics actually apply here.

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Aningan: Even without any training 4-5 cops against 1 criminal, unless that 1 guy is some sort of martial artist master, they should take him down without a problem.
You'd be amazed how difficult it can be to restrain an unwilling person. What they should be able to do is take him down, knowing that it'll be a problem and still doing it instead of resorting to force that should only be used as a last resort because it's easier.

I'm all for making a cop's job safer, but some things are just always going to be a bitch to do.
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wpegg: Cops aren't evil, no-one has said they are...
Not here. But glance through the comments on any report in which an officer used force on someone, or even other forums reporting the same, and you'll find it in spades. Especially car forums.
Post edited May 07, 2011 by nondeplumage
Posted May 07, 2011
I'm not sure how it is over there but I know here you need to have highly specialised training in order to carry a taser (this is as a police officer - they aren't publicly available). Whether or not this helps much I'm not sure but I'm sure it counts for something.
Posted May 07, 2011
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Trangmar: I'm not sure how it is over there but I know here you need to have highly specialised training in order to carry a taser (this is as a police officer - they aren't publicly available).
Here you do too. You need it just for pepper spray too (training which includes being sprayed). Same with pursuit driving, etc etc etc. But you are always going to find a few rotten apples, or sometimes someone making an extremely poor decision in some instance that royally fucks someone over.
Posted May 07, 2011
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wpegg: I think the lower perceived consequences encourages their use.
This is the core of the problem. There is a perception that tasers are non-lethal when they are merely less lethal. To some degree this has been promoted by the taser industry. There are many instances of police using tasers when they would never consider using a gun.
Posted May 07, 2011
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wpegg: I think the lower perceived consequences encourages their use.
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elbaz: This is the core of the problem. There is a perception that tasers are non-lethal when they are merely less lethal. To some degree this has been promoted by the taser industry. There are many instances of police using tasers when they would never consider using a gun.
like the naked jogger I highlighted above. No way they would have shot him.
Posted May 07, 2011
The article said he was shot twice with the taser while in his cell....

Why twice? Was the first a dud or something? Two officers pulling them out and shooting at the same time?
Posted May 07, 2011
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Immoli: The article said he was shot twice with the taser while in his cell....
Some Tazers stay connected to the handheld by wires and you can jolt them more than once with it. That is maybe what they meant.
Posted May 08, 2011
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Immoli: The article said he was shot twice with the taser while in his cell....
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nondeplumage: Some Tazers stay connected to the handheld by wires and you can jolt them more than once with it. That is maybe what they meant.
Well if that was the cause why do it twice?
Posted May 08, 2011
high rated
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nondeplumage: Some Tazers stay connected to the handheld by wires and you can jolt them more than once with it. That is maybe what they meant.
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Immoli: Well if that was the cause why do it twice?
The cop listened to Zombieland rules and did a double tap? I know, bad humor but I dunno what else to say yet.
Posted May 08, 2011
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Immoli: Well if that was the cause why do it twice?
It's a mystery for the ages.
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)"Don't tase me *croak*"(47 posts)(47 posts)
(47 posts)