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Metro09: Never been a huge fan of RTD as a writer in the series -- the finales in particular have been disappointing. He loves to concoct crazy, elaborate, and seemingly impossible situations for the Doctor to get out of and after he paints himself into a corner he pulls out some wacky solution since it's the only way to resolve things.
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TheJoe: I suggest that you watch the original Doctor Who(s).

I've probably seen about 80% or more of the original show -- was a weekly staple watching them carried on the local PBS (public broadcasting stations) in my youth. As campy as the original series was, I can't say I remember anything being as over-the-top as Davies' plot lines. Not even when Douglas Adams was a writer/script supervisor.
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Metro09: I can't say I remember anything being as over-the-top as Davies' plot lines.

When John Nathan Turner was completely in charge during the Davison, Baker and McCoy era's he produced some absolute shockers. Anthony Ainley who was the last person to play the Master in the classic series repeatedly tried to play the role more like Roger Delgado, a stylish, megalomaniac. JNT was having none of it, he wanted moustache twirling Ming the Merciless.
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Delixe: I find with Davies his strength is in drama writing. He writes dialogue very well. Utopia is a perfect example also the banter between Simm and Tennant in The Sound of the Drums. What Davies cannot do is action, he is bloody awful at it and thinks he is really good. RTD seems to think that bigger = better so he keeps raising the stakes further and further until the ending comes with the flick of a switch.

Maybe dialogue is decent but I attribute most of its impact to the delivery (Tennant shows some stunning talent in this series). As a conceptual sci-fi (or speculative fiction) writer, he fails on an epic scale. Absolutely nothing to take away and think about, plotwise. Just a jumble of random events, mostly.
How about some speculation for the conclusion?
I reckon they hid gallifrey in the master's head. They've got both time travel and inside bigger than outside tech (or dimensional transcendentalism if you want to be as nerdy as me) so I think they made something tiny, teleported the planet in there and the drumming the master has been hearing is the heartbeats of millions of timelords.
From what i have seen of the end of time and with the master race and time lords plus the end of Tennants doctor I feel that what RTD will do is in the end do another wipe out from people the events of the last few years the dalek attack etc and reset the clock so mankind remembers nothing otherwise i think we could have a lots of potential plot holes that could lead to a lot of confusion latter on RTD loves the lets reset everything button to fix he fact he can never think of a good ending.
Simms i love as the master he is a top rate actor and he really outshone Tennant which is a bit sad being its Tennats last days as the doctor.
I will certainly watch the final episode on new years day as i enjoyed Tennant as the doctor i just hope that somehow Simm master survives as i would love to see him as a recurring nemises for the new doctor.
Watched it loved it. MA RTD FINISHED A TWO PARTER PROPERLY!!
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BoxOfSnoo: Maybe dialogue is decent but I attribute most of its impact to the delivery (Tennant shows some stunning talent in this series). As a conceptual sci-fi (or speculative fiction) writer, he fails on an epic scale. Absolutely nothing to take away and think about, plotwise. Just a jumble of random events, mostly.

We all agree. When RTD wrote episodes like Midnight is was good. End of TIme is very good not because of the shiny but because of the script.
Post edited January 01, 2010 by Delixe
Oh god that was beautiful. I would like to marry Doctor Who (apparently it's legal in California). Hopefully the new guy is any good, because if not I will find him and HUNT HIM.
The end of a regeneration episode has always been an interesting time, you've got a long time to wait till you see if the new bloke is any good.
I have to say I'm rather happy with the way it went, not 100% happy with the retconning of the master's history but it didn't invalidate him as an opponent so I'm glad of that. Whilst the last few minutes did have a little bit of the fan-wank about it, it made sense in character so it wasn't as bad as it could be.
What surprised me was who timothy dalton turned out to be. The timelords really DID go nuts in the end to bring that bastard back
Post edited January 02, 2010 by Aliasalpha
I thought they could have done a bit more with regards to the timelords it could have set things up as a bit of a backstory for the new doctor. Too be honest was not my favorite episode but i thought the chats between Wilfred and the Doctor where fantastic.
It is sad to see David go as he is a great actor and made the doctor into his ow.
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Lone3wolf: These new ones aren't a patch on the stories of the proper Doctors -_-

LOL Let's not kid ourselves here. The reason the show was canned was because it was crap. That was the reason given by the then director of the BBC. While the show had potential; as it stood, he wasn't far wrong.
As for 'Yankified' I take it you mean they have an actual budget, better script, better special effects and vastly superior acting now?
There's really 2 major reasons the show was killed. The first was bbc penny pinching by increasing the budget the absolute minimum level over the years and then complaining because it didn't look as mega swanky as the high profile american shows of the time.
The other reason was john nathan turner. He was screwed over in a contract and forced to do the last I think 4 series and the decline in quality was directly linked to that. He also had this insane tendency to cast people because they were famous (especially in light entertainment) rather than actual actors who fit the part and in some instances that really hurt the shows
The 'yankified' feel of the new Who is also due to pacing, they've been talking about that on the commentaries for the old stories I've been watching, how there's somthing good and something bad about a more relaxed pace.
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Lone3wolf: These new ones aren't a patch on the stories of the proper Doctors -_-
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Navagon: LOL Let's not kid ourselves here. The reason the show was canned was because it was crap. That was the reason given by the then director of the BBC. While the show had potential; as it stood, he wasn't far wrong.
As for 'Yankified' I take it you mean they have an actual budget, better script, better special effects and vastly superior acting now?

It went crap because of who they had playing the last 3 doctors - Colin Baker....half-arsed, but vastly superior to Sylvester McCoy and the quarter-arsed attempt at the millennium episodes, Paul McGann, (which was the start of Americanised writing/scripts/effects/lack of intelligence).
The show went downhill rapidly after Davison. And IF you were actually old enough to have been watching those as original airings, not repeats or DVD some years later, you'd not have a leg to stand on arguing against it. Sure, the critters were rubber suits and such, but the stories were a hell of a lot better. (And I can JUST remember catching the start of the 2nd or 3rd Tom Baker stories.... 1979/1980-ish anyway....) .
Budget : Maybe...
Better script : Ummm...no, not really. Unless you're 6 years-old with an IQ less than 80.
Better SFX : Maybe...but then technology HAS moved on since 1980s and they definitely should be better than squibs with a lens flare for explosions....But do they compare with the story, or just added to excite those little kids with low IQs? "ohhhh, Shiney!"
Vastly SUPERIOR acting : ?? lolwhut? ummm no, not really. I'll take Ainley (I'd say Delgado, but I only ever saw him in repeats), over Simm any day of the week, and thrice on Sunday. Baker and Davison, and MAYBE Pertwee over anything since 1994...
Companions....hard one that : Adric would have to be candidate for favourite. Nyssa and Teegan had quite good roles back with Tom Baker.
Periwinkle and Ace just plain sucked. And not in a good way.
Rose....had her moments, but generally just made me want to ram something large in her throat to shut her up.
Martha is probably my favourite of the recent companions, but apart from that episode where she travels the world, "We all love you, Doctor!!! Come back to normal!!", she was under-utilised....
Donna....another one in the "ram something long and wide down her throat to shut her up" brigade. Kept waiting for her to say "Am I Bovverd? Do I look bovverd?" a lot...annoying at best.
Yankified : All glitz, no substance. Sums up these recent series of the show adequately. Another symptom of the general "dumbing down" of TV in the last 10 years or so. Too many "reality" shows - If you wanna sit on your arse all day, and watch idiots on your TV sat on their arse all day, you need a far better life. Get outside and see the world!
And for those that said earlier, that the Timelords weren't evil : I rest my case -_-
Dalton did all right, but I still want to know where they resurrected him from :P
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Lone3wolf: Dalton did all right, but I still want to know where they resurrected him from :P

The same place they resurrected The Master from the Matrix.
No surprise that the dialogue and the scenes between the Doctor and Wilf were among the best parts of the episode. The resolution was, well, a bit simplistic but here Davies did the smart thing and put the action/story in the background and does what he does best: characters. That said I thought the goodbyes were a bit much. Eccleston didn't get to say goodbye! Hopefully now they'll stop bringing Billie Tyler back.
Don't know about the new guy, I'll obviously give it a chance because it's Doctor Who but he looks pretty freaky! Not that Tom Baker was Brad Pitt but there's something strangely squarish about the guy's face.
Well, I thought the first part was poor, but the second part redeemed things to a certain extent. I really didn't mind all the cameos, since they were at the end rather than clumsily dropped in the middle.
Hope thats the last we see of Donna though, really hated Tate as a companion.
I do find the new doctor unappealing though, possibly because he's the first one that will be younger than I am! It's scary...
John Pertwee was my favourite doctor for a while, despite his eccentricities, and Tom Baker goes without saying really. I think Eccleston did a fine job though, and I have enjoyed Tennant's time.
I guess I usually find the one-off episodes better, when they do a big over-the-top end of series one I always find it less interesting.