I apologize in advance for this. I needed to get this out somewhere.


So, I am American. Every day I see a Tea Party rally (Tea stands for "Taxed Enough Already") I feel even more ashamed of this. Do they not realize that we have the third lowest tax rate in the world? And that a country needs tax revenue to function?

If it were up to the average American, it seems, we would have no taxes whatsoever. Everyone would fend for themselves.


It used to be, or at least my grandfather tells me, back during World War 2 it was patriotic to pay your taxes and help your community. Now it's considered unpatriotic to pay taxes without kicking and screaming, and, well, what's the community ever done for you, right?

While I agree with you to a certain extent, I think what the acronym for the TEA party stands for says it all (Taxed Enough Already). I know I certainly don't mind paying taxes, because a government does need taxes to function and provide services to its citizens, but it seems it's come to a point where you're taxed on damned near everything you do. Up here anyway. I assume it's a similar situation in the US.

We don't? I seriously thought we did.

If it were up to the average of anything or anyone nothing would work. I like that argument, I think I'll use it as a slogan for something.

Anyway, I agree. The funny thing is with you americans (at least with information I've received) that you are a very patriotic people, you love your country in general (I assume because of your whole freedom preach) but you hate your government. That's..kind of funny. :P

A high liberal would assume that every need could be satisfied by a company so no taxes is needed, you only pay for what you want, I think that's the general idea they're basing their complaining on. The problem is they don't take into consideration that we have a legacy from when governments were strong (kings and aristocrats) so it will take time for this to happen but still, we still rely on local community to function a co-operative manner. This idea to fend for themselves like life is a jungle even in civilized countries is not an inspiring thought to say the least.

I would have to say though that one thing I don't like about taxes is that they overcomplicate the system but I suppose it's needed because everyone works any system to their advantage so the government have to too; tax on trades that works so money actually comes in. The art of accepted taxation is a hard one.

To sum up: work the system (legally), pay whatever taxes you've to but do what you can to help local community (and more if you can). :)

what about 40 % taxes + VAT 24% :))
lame politician mafia

In agreement with this.

A couple other things that stick in the craw of the Tea Party folks:

- How the money is spent. The federal government alone collects around $2.4 trillion the last year or two and has managed to spend ~$3.4 trillion.
- The scope of the federal government's self-assigned duties, especially in light of the Tenth Amendment.

I'll add my own:

- My family paid a higher effective tax rate the last few years (and possibly before that, as well, but I haven't looked it up farther than a few years back) than did the President and Vice President . We make nowhere near what they do. In the meantime, they state (and many others do the same, so I don't want to single them out) that the rich don't pay "their fair share". I don't know what a "fair share" consists of but if you're going to bitch about how little you're paying compared to others, and are in a position to do something about it right there on your tax return, then you should damn well do something about it. In fairness, the President and First Lady are VERY generous with donations.

I'm fine paying what I do, but the process of paying is a real chore and time-waster. I'd appreciate better use of the money they tax from us, and I'd appreciate it if the tax system were greatly simplified. That's part of the core of what the groups are talking about and I think you wouldn't hear nearly the uproar if more things were put into the hands of state and local governments.

I am guessing you have never paid local property tax, on top of state and then fed for the same asset. Further I am going to guess you currently own little to no taxable assets. Just guesses on my part, I could certainly be wrong.

I have yet to meet the American that complains about simply paying taxes. They complain about how taxes are spent and the amount they are charged compared to others (or their perception at least). For example, try and explain the AMT tax law intended to force the ridiculously wealthy in the 20s to pay reasonable tax rate to a middle class family in the NE that just got hammered by it and made less this year even after a raise at work because their household income flipped over 200k.

Its not a simple "pay your taxes because we have to kill Nazis" kind of game anymore. Never was really, but at least there were unifying principles that everyone was behind.

It's psychology. It's the theory that change will destroy us, while thinking that change is what we need to survive. It's knowing that there's someone with power over you, who with many others controls the direction of yourself, your family, your town, your state, your countrymen, without any power yourself to resist it. It's the fear that the next day is going to be the end of your country, the burning of knowing that you're right and nobody else is, and making sure that the other guy loses in the next election, more than it matters for your own guy to win. It's complaining 20 ways sideways about the state of the world, without lifting a finger off the couch to do something about it, a pack of liqour beside you to go a little more brain dead to forget yourself and the world for a while.

It's all basically stupid pandering of course. Really there's no proven, promised method that works for every situation, and the economy, the driving force of the world changes literally on every penny invested and every penny spent. Ideally, we honestly should be more like the European countries. We have one of the largest territories for a country on Earth, we have one of the wealthiest nations on Earth, we have one of the most advanced technological societies on Earth, but we don't put any of that towards having a society where the most basic of social statuses can survive reliably. We debate and argue to cut funding for the majority of the population, while offering benefits to business, some that will give millions of dollars to private executives as a bonus, and then turn around to fire half of their workforce. It's silly, it's stupid, and honestly this should happen. Business is about making money, sure, but most of that comes in re-investing. You don't make anything back from a single man in a suit and tie. Then you complain that you can't hire workers because taxes are too high, when you pay one man as a BONUS, the wages to pay 20 for a life time.

Honestly, a lot of people love this country. They do. The problem is nobody knows what to do for it, and the debate falls down to whether or not the health of the nation comes down to supporting business or the working class. Maybe in an ideal world, both, you give the business incentive and ability to grow, invest, hire workers, and still profit, while the workers have the ability to work, sustain themselves and live with a modest comfort, but the mindset in this country is it has to be one or the other, and it gets thrown back and forth so much that any real solution would require an absolute re-write of the practice of tax, payment, corporate structure, and a powerful attack on preventing high inflation that will come with a boost in paycheck.

I admit I don't pay that much tax myself. No income tax as I make lower than the living wage on disability (About 700 dollars a month).


Anyway, I apologize for this rant in general. I was desperate to post my thoughts somewhere, and talking to my family only results in fighting because I dare to have an opinion.

Judas mentioned the VAT. personally i would be in favor of that for a few reasons. First, it would massively simplify the tax code. Second, I pay only for what I consume. Hence the idea, if I dont buy a car, and then gas for the car, and then register to get a license, etc, I will never use the roads, so why would I pay for their upkeep? An extreme example obviously but it makes the point.

Two reasons it would never work in the States.... The French use it. So immediately it would be branded as Socialist. Which it kind of is, but if you dig into it its becomes about as capitalist as you can get. Dont use it, dont pay for it. Two, the current sales tax would go anywhere from 0 (or more commonly about 6%) for some states to upwards of 30%. People would go apeshit over sticker shock. But, a guy can dream.

EDIT : Oh, and I forgot... It would save me a boatload of time every April.

It is only fair that people who pay their taxes don't have to sacrifice so much time and effort just to pay their taxes. But life is not fair and that is insane. People giving up money is enough. They shouldn't have to give up so much of their time and sanity. It shouldn't have to take someone more than 30 seconds to pay their taxes. Why punish such good citizens? I don't get it. Why not make paying taxes, fun? The IRS should make a game with achievements. :)

i think .the minimum wage here is under 200$ and here we pay all taxes

$200 a month, right?