To me it does not matter so much if Jesus was the Son of God; the Son of Man; the Word become Flesh.

What matters to me is how he wanted to change the world, and the morality through compassion, and the hope of mankind through his belief - he believed being what is mentioned above I think - the firmness and sincerity of his conviction was validated through quite the brutal self-sacrifice, though not strictly proven.

I would qualify myself amongst the unfaithful - but I still have Christian / Lutheran bases of culture - and I do at times actually think of Jesus as moral aspiration when I know I should choose the higher ground than my immediate inclination tells me.

Bible (Old Testament particularly with massacre of this or that people) literally taken has rather many ideas made ugly by passage of time - but shall not the moral example for compassion; intellectual and material honesty; and love of one's neighbour remain highly relevant?

I should say that believers as well as atheists cum agnostics shall find excuses for their lowest and least generous impulses from bible and elsewhere, should they so want!

I'm pretty sure your god wouldn't appreciate those types of advances anyway, but I would have to refuse the notion, thank you anyway.


There's no competing with the ignorant so ignorant that it refuses to reason so there was no competition anyway.

So? Your parents could of taught you morals even if they were atheists. Why is not killing people, not stealing, not being malevolent towards others basically, only a Christian, Catholic, Muslim thing?

First time I've riled up a christian so much he makes advances towards me.

Whoever thinks religion is what established morality needs to have their head examined. Religion is one of the most divisive barriers between cultures. It promotes xenophobia, racism, sexism and pisses all over basic human rights. It's no coincidence that countries the furthest away from religious institutions are the most enlightened and peaceful.

Exactly.

No, trolls spout ridiculous nonsense and fool people into believing that this nonsense is the actual belief of the troll. Then the folks waste their time trying to convince the troll that this nonsense is nonsense, something the troll very well knows. Congrats.

I, for one, for my own faith in humanity, refuse to believe that someone with as moronic views as you are pretending to have could have the brains to use the interwebs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaklcXNjdks

So you admit that you're a troll? Because from where I'm sitting your rhetoric sounds a lot like nonsense. Btw, I didn't start this thread. Someone else did. I've only voiced my opinion. If my ideas are dumb then so are yours just the same. I refuse to allow your side to dominate over my side. Otherwise you're I'd be allowing you to bask in your hypocrisy. And I can't allow that.

And nice personal attack. What's that now? 2 or 3 of you that have been reduced to personal attacks? Damn, I knew I was good but I never knew I was this good! And I'm up against like 10 or 15 of you, all by my lonesome.

We're not dominating your side, logic does.

Nobody's doing anything of the kind. Those are fighting words. I tell you as one Christian to another, stop turning people against God, because you are converting nobody with your vicious canards.

No, it hasn't been established. What HAS been established is certain morality being natural in human beings to not kill each other. If you HONESTLY think morals only come from religion you need your head checked. And you're one of those who think we atheists would rape, kill, pretend to be christians to rape. Some of the most appalling and disgusting claims I've ever heard. Morals are the opinions of those who come up with them NATURALLY not supernaturally.

Forgive for saying this, but am I the only won who thinks the Abrahamic God is sort of like a dictator?

If it was in our nature to not kill each other then the cavemen wouldn't have gone around killing each other. Morality is a social construct, not a natural one. Rape, homosexuality, incest, all those are found in every other species on this planet including our own. Those are natural. Morality is only found in humans. A gift from God to keep us from being just like all the other animals on this planet. It was established by the ten commandments from God.

He is the worst kind, he drives people to violence, and never dies.
That's ironic, rape, homosexuality and incest are no where to be found in the commandments.