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General discussion (archive)A Message to Atheists and Agnostics - I get you(2370 posts)(2370 posts)
(2370 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted January 24, 2014
To me it does not matter so much if Jesus was the Son of God; the Son of Man; the Word become Flesh.

What matters to me is how he wanted to change the world, and the morality through compassion, and the hope of mankind through his belief - he believed being what is mentioned above I think - the firmness and sincerity of his conviction was validated through quite the brutal self-sacrifice, though not strictly proven.

I would qualify myself amongst the unfaithful - but I still have Christian / Lutheran bases of culture - and I do at times actually think of Jesus as moral aspiration when I know I should choose the higher ground than my immediate inclination tells me.

Bible (Old Testament particularly with massacre of this or that people) literally taken has rather many ideas made ugly by passage of time - but shall not the moral example for compassion; intellectual and material honesty; and love of one's neighbour remain highly relevant?

I should say that believers as well as atheists cum agnostics shall find excuses for their lowest and least generous impulses from bible and elsewhere, should they so want!
Posted January 24, 2014
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pimpmonkey2382: Well, I wouldn't be against this thread being closed. No one will be able to cure ThoRn's ignorance on this issue, unless the bible somehow told him to convert to atheist and also explained evolution to him in terms he can understand.
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ThoRn: I'm a thorn in your ass!
I'm pretty sure your god wouldn't appreciate those types of advances anyway, but I would have to refuse the notion, thank you anyway.


There's no competing with the ignorant so ignorant that it refuses to reason so there was no competition anyway.
Posted January 24, 2014
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pimpmonkey2382: It's what you're taught and that doesn't require religion one iota.
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ThoRn: But it was originally taught from religion. Religion established the moral values that we all follow today.
So? Your parents could of taught you morals even if they were atheists. Why is not killing people, not stealing, not being malevolent towards others basically, only a Christian, Catholic, Muslim thing?
Posted January 24, 2014
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ThoRn: But it was originally taught from religion. Religion established the moral values that we all follow today.
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monkeydelarge: So? Your parents could of taught you morals even if they were atheists. Why is not killing people, not stealing, not being malevolent towards others basically, only a Christian, Catholic, Muslim thing?
First time I've riled up a christian so much he makes advances towards me.
Posted January 24, 2014
Whoever thinks religion is what established morality needs to have their head examined. Religion is one of the most divisive barriers between cultures. It promotes xenophobia, racism, sexism and pisses all over basic human rights. It's no coincidence that countries the furthest away from religious institutions are the most enlightened and peaceful.
Post edited January 24, 2014 by scampywiak
Posted January 24, 2014
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scampywiak: Whoever thinks religion is what established morality needs to have their head examined. Religion is one of the most divisive barriers between cultures. It promotes xenophobia, racism, sexism and pisses all over basic human rights. It's no coincidence that counties the furthest away from religious institutions are the most enlightened and peaceful.
Exactly.
Posted January 24, 2014
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kalirion: I'm convinced now, ThoRn is an elaborate troll.
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ThoRn: Wrong! Trolls make an argument and leave it to others to argue over. I've been here arguing my point of view from the start. That doesn't make me a troll. I'm sorry I'm not able to keep up with everyone as I'm pretty much a loner on my views and responding to everyone is impossible.

It IS funny to see all these atheists all sharpening their pitchforks and claiming, "burn the witch" when talking about me. LOL! Oh the irony of it is quite amusing!
No, trolls spout ridiculous nonsense and fool people into believing that this nonsense is the actual belief of the troll. Then the folks waste their time trying to convince the troll that this nonsense is nonsense, something the troll very well knows. Congrats.

I, for one, for my own faith in humanity, refuse to believe that someone with as moronic views as you are pretending to have could have the brains to use the interwebs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaklcXNjdks
Post edited January 24, 2014 by kalirion
Posted January 24, 2014
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ThoRn: Wrong! Trolls make an argument and leave it to others to argue over. I've been here arguing my point of view from the start. That doesn't make me a troll. I'm sorry I'm not able to keep up with everyone as I'm pretty much a loner on my views and responding to everyone is impossible.

It IS funny to see all these atheists all sharpening their pitchforks and claiming, "burn the witch" when talking about me. LOL! Oh the irony of it is quite amusing!
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kalirion: No trolls spout ridiculous nonsense and fool people into believing that this nonsense is the actual belief of the troll. Then the folks waste there time trying to convince the troll that this nonsense is nonsense, something the troll very well knows. Congrats. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaklcXNjdks
So you admit that you're a troll? Because from where I'm sitting your rhetoric sounds a lot like nonsense. Btw, I didn't start this thread. Someone else did. I've only voiced my opinion. If my ideas are dumb then so are yours just the same. I refuse to allow your side to dominate over my side. Otherwise you're I'd be allowing you to bask in your hypocrisy. And I can't allow that.

And nice personal attack. What's that now? 2 or 3 of you that have been reduced to personal attacks? Damn, I knew I was good but I never knew I was this good! And I'm up against like 10 or 15 of you, all by my lonesome.
Post edited January 24, 2014 by ThoRn
Posted January 24, 2014
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kalirion: No trolls spout ridiculous nonsense and fool people into believing that this nonsense is the actual belief of the troll. Then the folks waste there time trying to convince the troll that this nonsense is nonsense, something the troll very well knows. Congrats. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaklcXNjdks
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ThoRn: So you admit that you're a troll? Because from where I'm sitting your rhetoric sounds a lot like nonsense. Btw, I didn't start this thread. Someone else did. I've only voiced my opinion. If my ideas are dumb then so are yours just the same. I refuse to allow your side to dominate over my side. Otherwise you're I'd be allowing you to bask in your hypocrisy. And I can't allow that.

And nice personal attack. What's that now? 2 or 3 of you that have been reduced to personal attacks? Damn, I knew I was good but I never knew I was this good! And I'm up against like 10 or 15 of you, all by my lonesome.
We're not dominating your side, logic does.
Posted January 24, 2014
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ThoRn: So you admit that you're a troll? Because from where I'm sitting your rhetoric sounds a lot like nonsense. Btw, I didn't start this thread. Someone else did. I've only voiced my opinion. If my ideas are dumb then so are yours just the same. I refuse to allow your side to dominate over my side. Otherwise you're I'd be allowing you to bask in your hypocrisy. And I can't allow that.

And nice personal attack. What's that now? 2 or 3 of you that have been reduced to personal attacks? Damn, I knew I was good but I never knew I was this good! And I'm up against like 10 or 15 of you, all by my lonesome.
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pimpmonkey2382: We're not dominating your side, logic does.
I don't see any logic from your arguments at all. Just religion-bashing while on one hand claiming to be an atheist and on the other claiming you have morals. When I think it's been clearly established that the moral views you have come from religion.
Posted January 24, 2014
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hedwards: Failing that, even just barring effective birth control does the trick. Like it or not, most women like sex, at least enough to have it a dozen or so times during a life time. Which means that they could relatively easily be unlucky enough to get pregnant a quarter or a third of the time. And that's assuming they're settling for just a dozen times.

In practice, I suspect that the number of times one has sex before becoming pregnant is probably lower and the number of times those women have sex is higher.

Seems odd to me that so many people buy into the notion that God would require people to not use birth control and not provide some reasonable method of preventing pregnancy. Especially seeing as unwanted pregnancy is a huge reason why poverty exists in some segments of the population. Unwanted children and inadequate social support.

I wonder sometimes if these people have ever actually read the Bible. Personally, I try not to covet my neighbor's oxen, because having sex with sheep is probably less dangerous.
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ThoRn: Poverty will always exists no matter how many babies you kill. As long as there's a rich class there has to be a poor class. Stop making up bullshit excuses to murder innocent babies.
Nobody's doing anything of the kind. Those are fighting words. I tell you as one Christian to another, stop turning people against God, because you are converting nobody with your vicious canards.
Post edited January 24, 2014 by cjrgreen
Posted January 24, 2014
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pimpmonkey2382: We're not dominating your side, logic does.
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ThoRn: I don't see any logic from your arguments at all. Just religion-bashing while on one hand claiming to be an atheist and on the other claiming you have morals. When I think it's been clearly established that the moral views you have come from religion.
No, it hasn't been established. What HAS been established is certain morality being natural in human beings to not kill each other. If you HONESTLY think morals only come from religion you need your head checked. And you're one of those who think we atheists would rape, kill, pretend to be christians to rape. Some of the most appalling and disgusting claims I've ever heard. Morals are the opinions of those who come up with them NATURALLY not supernaturally.
Posted January 24, 2014
Forgive for saying this, but am I the only won who thinks the Abrahamic God is sort of like a dictator?
Posted January 24, 2014
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ThoRn: I don't see any logic from your arguments at all. Just religion-bashing while on one hand claiming to be an atheist and on the other claiming you have morals. When I think it's been clearly established that the moral views you have come from religion.
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pimpmonkey2382: No, it hasn't been established. What HAS been established is certain morality being natural in human beings to not kill each other. If you HONESTLY think morals only come from religion you need your head checked. And you're one of those who think we atheists would rape, kill, pretend to be christians to rape. Some of the most appalling and disgusting claims I've ever heard. Morals are the opinions of those who come up with them NATURALLY not supernaturally.
If it was in our nature to not kill each other then the cavemen wouldn't have gone around killing each other. Morality is a social construct, not a natural one. Rape, homosexuality, incest, all those are found in every other species on this planet including our own. Those are natural. Morality is only found in humans. A gift from God to keep us from being just like all the other animals on this planet. It was established by the ten commandments from God.
Posted January 24, 2014
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Elmofongo: Forgive for saying this, but am I the only won who thinks the Abrahamic God is sort of like a dictator?
He is the worst kind, he drives people to violence, and never dies.
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pimpmonkey2382: No, it hasn't been established. What HAS been established is certain morality being natural in human beings to not kill each other. If you HONESTLY think morals only come from religion you need your head checked. And you're one of those who think we atheists would rape, kill, pretend to be christians to rape. Some of the most appalling and disgusting claims I've ever heard. Morals are the opinions of those who come up with them NATURALLY not supernaturally.
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ThoRn: If it was in our nature to not kill each other then the cavemen wouldn't have gone around killing each other. Morality is a social construct, not a natural one. Rape, homosexuality, incest, all those are found in every other species on this planet including our own. Those are natural. Morality is only found in humans. A gift from God to keep us from being just like all the other animals on this planet. It was established by the ten commandments from God.
That's ironic, rape, homosexuality and incest are no where to be found in the commandments.
Post edited January 24, 2014 by pimpmonkey2382
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)A Message to Atheists and Agnostics - I get you(2370 posts)(2370 posts)
(2370 posts)