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General discussion (archive)2014 DRM-Free Big Fall Sale Tracker Thread(4367 posts)(4367 posts)
(4367 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted November 22, 2014
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JaqFrost: [snip]

I want to like them and when I end up not so much, I feel like I failed. I'm not sure that even makes sense...
Makes perfect sense. I'm that way with some RPG titles. There are some I have rough time getting into that others here give high praise. It can be frustrating at times :)
Posted November 22, 2014
All right, guess another night of timer watching isn't in the cards.

Goodnight, everyone. See you tomorrow.
Posted November 22, 2014
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JaqFrost: Should I buy The Longest Journey? I was reading IAmSinistar's post about how he is a genre omnivore and it got me thinking about my biases:

I'm not a point & click adventure gamer; they tend to bore me with the backtracking and pixel hunting and whatnot. Yet, I always seem drawn to them when there's a sale or release -- it might be the often very pretty graphics or that there's an actual story there, or that I do like puzzles and the like in RL, but whenever I've tried playing one of these games... meh.

I keep thinking that I'm probably missing something, that I'm just too dumb to understand the charm of adventure games. =/
Adventure games have three main selling points:
1) Story. Adventure game story lines are often very detailed and can function as an alternative to books/moveis, whereas, say FPS games are often very light on story (You've gotta stop the bad guys. They want to destroy the world/kidnapped your girlfriend/etc. Get 'em!) Not that there aren't exceptions to that rule (e.g. Bioshock). The first person perspective of adventure games raises the dramatic stakes since you can "be" the detective that solves a crime or gets off of a deserted island.

2) Graphics. Because the range of motion of playable characters is usually limited, most adventure games have outstanding graphics. Even those games that are visually "primitive" have excellent design and use their graphics to enhance the mood and meaning of the games.

3) Puzzles. Adventure games allow you to solve puzzles in many different forms. Some puzzles are largely engineering puzzles (e.g. Syberia I). Other puzzles call on your knowledge of music, language, math, etc.

FYI, pixel hunting is very rare in modern adventure games. I mostly dislike it in older games, but will put up with it as I enjoy the other aspects of adventure games so much. The slowness that you describe can be insurmountable in adventure games, however, because the games can only proceed at the pace at which you solve the puzzles presented. If that isn't your cup of tea, it isn't your cup of tea, but if you can think of a particular genre that you like (horror, mystery, fantasy, etc.) or a particular puzzle type or set that you might like (engineering, find an item and figure out what to do with it, a mixture of puzzles related to language, color, sound, etc.), say so and I'm sure that the resident adventure game fans here will be happy to make recommendations.
Posted November 22, 2014
Magicmaker again? Oh boy...
Posted November 22, 2014
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CarrionCrow: All right, guess another night of timer watching isn't in the cards.

Goodnight, everyone. See you tomorrow.
goodnight dude :D
Posted November 22, 2014
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infinityeight: FYI, pixel hunting is very rare in modern adventure games. I mostly dislike it in older games, but will put up with it as I enjoy the other aspects of adventure games so much. The slowness that you describe can be insurmountable in adventure games, however, because the games can only proceed at the pace at which you solve the puzzles presented. If that isn't your cup of tea, it isn't your cup of tea, but if you can think of a particular genre that you like (horror, mystery, fantasy, etc.) or a particular puzzle type or set that you might like (engineering, find an item and figure out what to do with it, a mixture of puzzles related to language, color, sound, etc.), say so and I'm sure that the resident adventure game fans here will be happy to make recommendations.
I didn't dislike the puzzles in Syberia, they weren't hard or dragging the pacing to a crawl -- it was running across numerous screens, back and forth, with nothing to do but click to proceed, that got to me in combination with the awful main character. She was just so grating and honestly, not too bright. All the conversations were on wheels with my input reduced to clicking through to the next line of the script.

I think what gets to me with P&C adventure is that, much like corridor shooters, you're on rails. There's nowhere to go but where the designers want you to go and you can't get the solution to the problems in more than the one way they want you to solve it. You have no choices or options to go about things differently, even when you can clearly see where things are heading -- you have to go at the pace of the cognitively challenged PC because that's how dense the developer thinks you are.

Actually, thank you! I think you just made me work out why I don't click with these types of games even though I feel like I ought to. Maybe they're just not for me? =P
Posted November 22, 2014
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infinityeight: FYI, pixel hunting is very rare in modern adventure games. I mostly dislike it in older games, but will put up with it as I enjoy the other aspects of adventure games so much. The slowness that you describe can be insurmountable in adventure games, however, because the games can only proceed at the pace at which you solve the puzzles presented. If that isn't your cup of tea, it isn't your cup of tea, but if you can think of a particular genre that you like (horror, mystery, fantasy, etc.) or a particular puzzle type or set that you might like (engineering, find an item and figure out what to do with it, a mixture of puzzles related to language, color, sound, etc.), say so and I'm sure that the resident adventure game fans here will be happy to make recommendations.
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JaqFrost: I didn't dislike the puzzles in Syberia, they weren't hard or dragging the pacing to a crawl -- it was running across numerous screens, back and forth, with nothing to do but click to proceed, that got to me in combination with the awful main character. She was just so grating and honestly, not too bright. All the conversations were on wheels with my input reduced to clicking through to the next line of the script.

I think what gets to me with P&C adventure is that, much like corridor shooters, you're on rails. There's nowhere to go but where the designers want you to go and you can't get the solution to the problems in more than the one way they want you to solve it. You have no choices or options to go about things differently, even when you can clearly see where things are heading -- you have to go at the pace of the cognitively challenged PC because that's how dense the developer thinks you are.

Actually, thank you! I think you just made me work out why I don't click with these types of games even though I feel like I ought to. Maybe they're just not for me? =P
I agree that all of the running around screen after screen is a big design flaw of Syberia (Though the puzzles and storyline make it worthwhile. Syberia I is great for story line since, as you point out, Kate Walker has some huge flaws at the beginning of the game, but she learns to live her life differently by the time the game is over.) As for the issue of being unable to solve puzzles in multiple ways, even if it is logical to do so, some newer games are starting to allow for that. Return to Mysterious Island is pretty good in that way. RtMI also has the advantage of being set on a literal deserted island, so the "rails" make sense. Of course your character is not going to go anywhere but the island since she is stranded on it. The closed set feeling of adventure games is often essential, though. I can't imagine how much money and time that it would take to program inessential areas into many adventure games (and just think how much time you would waste running around in areas with no essential items or puzzles).
Posted November 22, 2014
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infinityeight: I agree that all of the running around screen after screen is a big design flaw of Syberia (Though the puzzles and storyline make it worthwhile. Syberia I is great for story line since, as you point out, Kate Walker has some huge flaws at the beginning of the game, but she learns to live her life differently by the time the game is over.) As for the issue of being unable to solve puzzles in multiple ways, even if it is logical to do so, some newer games are starting to allow for that. Return to Mysterious Island is pretty good in that way. RtMI also has the advantage of being set on a literal deserted island, so the "rails" make sense. Of course your character is not going to go anywhere but the island since she is stranded on it. The closed set feeling of adventure games is often essential, though. I can't imagine how much money and time that it would take to program inessential areas into many adventure games (and just think how much time you would waste running around in areas with no essential items or puzzles).
I don't mind the locked room device in mysteries, I grew up reading a lot of golden era mystery fiction. It was well crafted in a way that you had a fair chance at solving the mystery, the reader wasn't cheated by being saddled with a stupid protagonist nor was there a deus ex machina moment were the author had painted themselves into a corner and couldn't surprise you in any other way. Like in Resonance,

[spoiler] you've been in the main character's head from the very start of the story, where he meets the girl on the subway and then, spaghetti cat! He turns out to be the bad guy despite having been the POV character at the pivotal moment when you would have known that his intentions were, well, nefarious.
[/spoiler]

It's cheap and sloppy storytelling. =(

Anyway, I think I also suffer from 'girls are supposed to like P&C adventure games, RPGs and casual games.' I mean, I know that's not true for all women, but I have yet to meet another woman who, if she's a gamer, doesn't play adventure games... Last time I went to a brick and mortar place to get games, the clerk kept redirecting me from the strategy games over to the colorful match-3 and HOG displays. Apparently, I'm not a real girl. =/
Post edited November 22, 2014 by JaqFrost
Posted November 22, 2014
Continuing the list from here: http://www.gog.com/forum/general/2014_drmfree_big_fall_sale_tracker_thread/post3530

Defender's Quest - $2.99 (80%)
Magicmaker - $4.99 (50%)
Sacred 2 Gold - $3.99 (80%)
Carmageddon 2: Carpocalypse Now - $1.99 (80%)
Torchlight - $3.79 (75%)
Mark of the Ninja Special Edition - $4.49 (75%)
Deus Ex 2: Invisible War - $2.49 (75%)
Driftmoon - $2.99 (80%)
Rune Classic - $1.99 (80%)
Space Pirates and Zombies - $1.99 (80%)
Stronghold Crusade HD - $2.49 (75%)
Screamer 4X4 - $1.49 (75%)
Carmageddon Max Pack - $1.99 (80%)
Deus Ex Goty Edition - $2.49 (75%)
Dreamfall: The Longest Journey - $2.99 (80%)
Rogue Legacy - will be up next
Hotline Miami - will be up next
Shadowrun: Dragonfrall - Director's Cut - will be up next
Post edited November 22, 2014 by moonshineshadow
Posted November 22, 2014
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JaqFrost: Anyway, I think I also suffer from 'girls are supposed to like P&C adventure games, RPGs and casual games.' I mean, I know that's not true for all women, but I have yet to meet another woman who, if she's a gamer, doesn't play adventure games... Last time I went to a brick and mortar place to get games, the clerk kept redirecting me from the strategy games over to the colorful match-3 and HOG displays. Apparently, I'm not a real girl. =/
f you mean that you suffer from other people thinking that 'girls are supposed to like P&C adventure games etc., then I'd say you're quite likely right. Our brains tend to build patterns to allow us to make quick assessments. So we tend to think in terms of 'average' or 'normal' rather than working through every situation from basics. Anyone who isn't actively watching for exceptions will tend to only see the 'average' or 'normal' and miss the exceptions. Unfortunate, because the exceptions are generally the most interesting.
As for being a 'real girl', anyone with two X chromosomes and the brain chemistry to match is a real girl. Everything else is just details.
Posted November 22, 2014
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JaqFrost: Anyway, I think I also suffer from 'girls are supposed to like P&C adventure games, RPGs and casual games.' I mean, I know that's not true for all women, but I have yet to meet another woman who, if she's a gamer, doesn't play adventure games... Last time I went to a brick and mortar place to get games, the clerk kept redirecting me from the strategy games over to the colorful match-3 and HOG displays. Apparently, I'm not a real girl. =/
I actually hosted two giveaways recently to get a better idea of the different kind of games the guys and the girls on GOG play. It's by no means an accurate list, as it only went on those who took part, but it was interesting to see the different and similar tastes between each gender. Point-and-click games were the second favourite for the ladies, after RPGs. But casual games were not very high on the list, in fact, I'm not sure anyone picked casual games as one of their top choices. I know it ranked high among the least liked games. But again, this was just a tiny little survey baed on GOG users, so I'm not sure about the true ratio of girls who prefer casual games.

Here is a summary of the results:
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/the_guys_of_gog_giveaway_no_girls_allowed/post281
Posted November 22, 2014
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Torin68: f you mean that you suffer from other people thinking that 'girls are supposed to like P&C adventure games etc., then I'd say you're quite likely right. Our brains tend to build patterns to allow us to make quick assessments. So we tend to think in terms of 'average' or 'normal' rather than working through every situation from basics. Anyone who isn't actively watching for exceptions will tend to only see the 'average' or 'normal' and miss the exceptions. Unfortunate, because the exceptions are generally the most interesting.
As for being a 'real girl', anyone with two X chromosomes and the brain chemistry to match is a real girl. Everything else is just details.
Well, I was born female and never felt like I wanted to be a man. =P I'm just very bad at conforming to gender stereotypes, or maybe just conforming in general. I always end up being a statistical outlier, so I suppose it stands to reason that I wouldn't be typical in my gaming preferences either. I teach Academic English and whenever my students find out that I'm a gamer, they're gobsmacked. Not so much because I am their teacher but because I am a woman. They also think it's impossible for me to prefer rock over country music because I 'dress like I listen to Taylor Swift.' If my students weren't Vietnamese, I'd think there was an insult in there somewhere. ;)
Posted November 22, 2014
Yep, cultures can suffer from the same 'tunnel vision' that individuals do. Perhaps even more so since the accepted norms are often actively taught as being 'right'.
Posted November 22, 2014
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Ragnarblackmane: ...
What is this? A Dwarf wishlist without ale, flatulence and swimming with little hairy women on it? Is your wishlist up to date master Dwarf? If not, then how am I supposed to know what games to force upon you. :-)
Posted November 22, 2014
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JaqFrost: Anyway, I think I also suffer from 'girls are supposed to like P&C adventure games, RPGs and casual games.' I mean, I know that's not true for all women, but I have yet to meet another woman who, if she's a gamer, doesn't play adventure games... Last time I went to a brick and mortar place to get games, the clerk kept redirecting me from the strategy games over to the colorful match-3 and HOG displays. Apparently, I'm not a real girl. =/
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ddickinson: I actually hosted two giveaways recently to get a better idea of the different kind of games the guys and the girls on GOG play. It's by no means an accurate list, as it only went on those who took part, but it was interesting to see the different and similar tastes between each gender. Point-and-click games were the second favourite for the ladies, after RPGs. But casual games were not very high on the list, in fact, I'm not sure anyone picked casual games as one of their top choices. I know it ranked high among the least liked games. But again, this was just a tiny little survey baed on GOG users, so I'm not sure about the true ratio of girls who prefer casual games.

Here is a summary of the results:
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/the_guys_of_gog_giveaway_no_girls_allowed/post281
That's some fun data, ddickinson. Thanks for sharing.

I agree with you, too, Jaqfrost. Gender stereotypes suck. I guess that I conform to the gender stereotypes (I only dress in a male computer sprite's drag on the internet) insofar as adventure games are my favorite games, though I like the occasional action game/platformer/simulation game, but I do not conform to the general human being/Gogger stereotype of liking RPGs.

It's cool that you teach Academic English, Jaq. I've done some of that as well, though only stateside. I wonder how many Goggers are involved in education.
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)2014 DRM-Free Big Fall Sale Tracker Thread(4367 posts)(4367 posts)
(4367 posts)